Lotus Eletre

[ramjet]

Lambo just brought out an SUV as probably everyone here is aware and it costs a packet here. I can't imagine that the segment is flooded to be honest.

[Kimbers]

Frankly I would prefer them to do a "Lotus Carlton" or "Lotus Sunbeam" with an existing SUV. I think that would be more fun, it would be cheaper to develop and do what they do best, Engineering excellence.

[Advantage]

1 hour ago, ramjet said:

Lambo just brought out an SUV as probably everyone here is aware and it costs a packet here. I can't imagine that the segment is flooded to be honest.

Yep, the Urus. As a thing it's awesome.

4ltr V8 twin turbo, 641bhp 2200kgs, 0-62mph in 3.6 secs and claimed 190mph - but £165,000 plus options, so knocking on the door of £200k by the time it's on your driveway.  

[TBD]

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Frankly I would prefer them to do a "Lotus Carlton" or "Lotus Sunbeam" with an existing SUV. I think that would be more fun, it would be cheaper to develop and do what they do best, Engineering excellence.

JMG expects the SUV to account for 10K sales annually, a number too big for the "Carlton" exercise, but too small for the "Cayenne" model.

I expect we will see a lot of Volvo in the Lotus SUV and in return quite some Lotus in the next gen Volvo SUVs.

[NedaSay]

4 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Frankly I would prefer them to do a "Lotus Carlton" or "Lotus Sunbeam" with an existing SUV. I think that would be more fun, it would be cheaper to develop and do what they do best, Engineering excellence.

Give it a few years, If they are really emulating the Porsche development plan on a smaller scale, a Carlton successor in EV  guise may be in the cards. 

Considering they get to toy with what JMG calls modules which really is the SPA architecture they could totally use the S-V-XC-90 modules they want, then produce a chassis to cradle said modules and ask the design team to come with something pleasing to the eye. It won't automatically be that expensive as the modules do come with economies of scale. The trick will be to have the design fit the modules. Lotus will have to come with very distinctive design outside and  inside. I trust that using SPA the patent drawings could be pretty close to the final designed for the body. They will need to to source visible components to make it immediately identifiable as a Lotus.  The interior will feature the Sensus U.I and possibly instrument binnacle and toggles... It will be interesting to see how much Russell Carr and his team will be able to do with those constraints. So far interiors from the new generation  of SPA based Volvo have been virtually undistinguishable :

Don't mind the trim and guess which one is which, we are talking details here. Lotus will have to keep a lot of its current DNA so that its interiors don't become a clone of the two seen above ; circular or different vents, a sporty and good looking steering wheel as well as sorting out a manual gearbox for the diehard fans of the left pedal will be necessary to make it feel like more than a volvo . Still the new interior will be a very significant step up in terms of touch and feel.

I think JMG is being very cautious with the SUV sales 10,000 seems like an important number as far as Lotus is concerned but I think the Chinese market alone can and will gobble that with a bit of clever Marketing on behalf of Geely.  I do also think that Lotus will not be making one but more likely two SUV in the end. The first Lotus SUV was supposed to be a Maccan competitor but is now touted to compete with the Levante, and therefore the Cayenne,  which are much bigger. it was supposed to be sub 1600kg but we are now talking about something under 2000kg. So large SUV to be followed by midsize SUV on shortened platform in order to brings cost further down.

Geely is milking SPA through as many venues as it can : Volvo with the 60 and 90 ranges, Polestar with the 1, Geely with the Emgrand GT and GL which are also using some "modules"  and soon Lotus. I'm not too worried about the cost using those invisible modules will be quite cost effective 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by NedaSay

[PhilW]

Can someone tell me why the world needs SUV's?  Generally hideous to look at, ridiculously expensive for what they are.  I cant see in reality what they offer in addition to what a decent saloon car does.  I do appreciate they maybe useful for about 1% of the current owners who may have a need for rough terrain driving.  Other than that they are too big for most parking spaces, they make packed roads seem even more packed,  they are too big for many roads in this country,  school gates are clogged up with them and I would imagine their fuel consumption and emissions are higher in general than perfectly adequate family saloons, although I stand to be corrected on that point because I really dont know.

[NedaSay]

Short answer the world or most of it at least doesn't need SUVs but it sure as hell wants them.  I drive an SUV every year when I go out west for skiing and they are sort of convenient in snowy environment, they require me to shovel less, which is useful in Canada from November to April or May. Let it not be may this year! Please oh please! Ah and uh women seem to love them because of perceived higher safety and security. Oh and aggro drivers like them too because they think they can driver over anything and anyone... 

[Kimbers]

My new car is a KIA SUV. Its a Plug in Electric Hybrid with 28g/km Emissions and is greener and more economic than 99% of all cars on the road (The others being pure electric). Love SUV's or hate them, they do what they are designed to do. My wife loves her Sportage because it's high up, carries loads of gear (which she needs as a District Nurse), 5 people comfortably amd was really good in the snow recently, despite only being a 2WD. 

I do think there is a place for SUV's. maybe not just the gas guzzler V6/V8 Petrols like the Lambo.

[auRouge]

19 hours ago, PhilW said:

Can someone tell me why the world needs SUV's?  Generally hideous to look at, ridiculously expensive for what they are.  I cant see in reality what they offer in addition to what a decent saloon car does.  I do appreciate they maybe useful for about 1% of the current owners who may have a need for rough terrain driving.  Other than that they are too big for most parking spaces, they make packed roads seem even more packed,  they are too big for many roads in this country,  school gates are clogged up with them and I would imagine their fuel consumption and emissions are higher in general than perfectly adequate family saloons, although I stand to be corrected on that point because I really dont know.

It's a good question and fair point, why has the world decided that bigger is better? 

FWIW SUV's are a lifestyle thing. Why do some people have have bigger phones? It's just easier to navigate isn't it?

Most people like SUV's because they're easier to live with. My brother and I bought my mum (72 and dad 80 years old) an X1 a few years ago. She loves it. Getting in and out is way easier on the knees for my dad and loading the shopping is also easier on the back for both of them. The view from the drivers seat is clearer and you have the added advantage of 4 wheel drive(they live at the bottom of a hill). It returns about 50 mpg (1.8 diesel) and the road tax is cheap.

I agree some like mine are way too big. I'll buy a Lotus SUV if it comes to the U.K. (if it's Hybrid) or an X3 next time. We wanted a Hybrid as we live in town and do short journeys for no longer than about 20-30 mins at a time and BMW only use EDrive on the flagship X5 at present (X3 is diesel only).

This leads me onto fuel consumption and emissions. Some must be inefficient and there's no real justification other than taste or need (towing etc). However like @Kimbers Kia Hybrid our SUV uses Hybrid petrol/electric. Below is a screenshot from the ConnectedDrive App...it's my wife's school drop off and drive to work this morning... 94.2mpg, she must have been using the seat warmers and been crawling as that mpg is half of what it sometimes achieves! The 9Kw battery charge (range limited to only 19 miles) was mostly done yesterday by our solar panels too. Essentially it runs like an EV Tesla most of the time and we pay no road tax.

We bought an SUV because it's fun, safe, comfortable and easy to live with. Its also nice knowing that the family commute is often paid for by the sun with no emissions!

If Lotus could develop a Hybrid / Petrol SUV with Volvo quality control measures, I think they'll have a super successful future and build the next Esprit. 

 

 

[TBD]

22 hours ago, PhilW said:

Can someone tell me why the world needs SUV's?  Generally hideous to look at, ridiculously expensive for what they are.  I cant see in reality what they offer in addition to what a decent saloon car does.  I do appreciate they maybe useful for about 1% of the current owners who may have a need for rough terrain driving.  Other than that they are too big for most parking spaces, they make packed roads seem even more packed,  they are too big for many roads in this country,  school gates are clogged up with them and I would imagine their fuel consumption and emissions are higher in general than perfectly adequate family saloons, although I stand to be corrected on that point because I really dont know.

Sorry, just had to rewrite this with how those SUV-owners think about our babies:

Quote

Can someone tell me why the world needs Sports cars?  Generally hideous to get into, ridiculously expensive for what they are.  I cant see in reality what they offer in addition to what a decent saloon car does.  I do appreciate they maybe useful for about 1% of the current owners who may have a need for driving driving on a race track.  Other than that they have no oversight for most parking spaces, they make packed roads seem even more packed,  they are too hard sprung for many roads in this country,  in spots are clogged up by posers with them and I would imagine their fuel consumption and emissions are higher in general than perfectly adequate family saloons, although I stand to be corrected on that point because I really dont know.

Its all a matter of perspective.

[KAS-118]

Firstly - despite its similarity with the Toyota - I think as an SUV the recent rendering looks good.

I'm also rather baffled by the titanic rise in the quantity of SUV's and I also fear that Lotus are coming too late into an ever saturated market - and I can't help but think that the 'fashion' in SUV's will soon change. 

As I've said before I do see a gap in the market for an modern day Elite/Eclat - or at least improving the height and rear leg-room in the Evora to make it suitable for teenager/small adult use.

However, whilst I'm no fan of SUV's if Lotus started making one and it sold and meant that the company made a profit which went to support its sport-cars and coupe's - then in my mind that can only be a good thing. 

[NedaSay]

Geely other premium brand Lynk & Co just launched in Europe their 2nd model aptly named 02.  

This car is based on CMA platform the small version of SPA architecture... This model shares most hard points with the Volvo XC40 and yet it looks significantly different, more urban crossover than city SUV, it looks low and sporty.

If the small platform allows for that much differentiation, I'm confident that the patent designs leaked a few months ago will translate well to the bigger SPA platform.

 

Also, Lynk & Co doesn't use the Sensus UI but the infotainment architecture the they use doesn't look too shabby either. This is not the full digital integration seen on the Volvos  but it looks suitably techy, with its panoramic layout instead of Volvo's portrait it looks massive. And uh, I like the look of that steering wheel better than the steering wheels on the now Volvos, must be the flat bottom. JMG must be quite happy with how deep and premium the new parts bin or bins appears to be. 

Under the hood, the same 4 cyl turbo found across the Volvo range in a milder tune (190bhp) will be available in China but in Europe it will be sold as an PHEV with the new 3 cyl turbo and Geely's own 7 speed DCT.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/lynk-co-02-new-brand-unveils-european-focused-crossover

[auRouge]

Let's hope the bean counters don't dilute Lotus bit too much.

I haven't bought a VAG product since our old MK5 Golf because it seemed weird paying a premium for a Golf when you could buy a Seat which was v similar... then again screw the ego and buy a Skoda!! Ohhh but the BMW is only a little bit more than the Skoda!!!!! Ha ha, it's a bit of a trick.

Bye bye VAG... JMG and Lotus, please try and be true to your identity otherwise we may as well buy the R8 V10 over the Lambo and that's just crazy!

[TBD]

Despite the cross-channel commonality there remain quite some differences betwewen the various offerings:

• Audi A3 -> Golf -> Seat -> Skoda
• BMW 1series-> Mini
• Smart -> Twingo
• Volvo -> Polestar -> Lynk
• Toyota GT86 -> Subaru BRZ
• Lambo Huracan -> Audi R8

No need to worry, each company finds its niche. Lotus will have to grab deep in the Gelley parts bin, just as Lambo has done in the Volkswagen Group's bin. But then, Lotus has always had to grab heavily into others parts bins, which has been Lotus DNA ever since Colin Chapman built his first car, the Mark I (Austin 7). Today its the Toyota engine, or the Ford mirrors, etc.

In fact, Lotus uses less custom designed parts than all large scale manufacturers simply because they can't offset the development and tooling costs for anything special.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

"Lynk & Co" : really???

Makes me think of these:

[C8RKH]

That's funny. I was thinking it sounded more like a jewellers....

 

Porsche makes me think of these:

 

[auRouge]

@TBD good point, they've got a lot of experience using parts from other manufactures.

I like the fact they can use a super reliable engine from Toyota or Volvo, tune it to perform whilst maintaining that reliability. Bring on the Volvo wiring looms and crash test technology, this marriage of knowledge is the best of both worlds.

This SUV will drive and handle like a proper car, have the lifestyle factor of an SUV and the reliability of that very well known and loved Scandinavian brand...

Exciting times for Lotus. Although I wonder about the profitability of the planned SUV. It's a high volume market (JMG only planning 10k cars? I might be wrong), not sure how much Volvo makes out of an XC60 or Porsche from a Macan but I bet it's not huge... the profit will come from the high numbers sold no? If Lotus needs to make this car too expensive to make profit then they'll be at risk as convincing the public to buy a new SUV against a tried and tested car will be tough.

I wonder if in Europe the Volvo's will get a bit of Lotus tuning and then brand that?!! Lotus Carlton effect... low numbers, bit more expensive but highly desirable.

That would make an already v good XC even more tempting against a Porsche or BMW sporty SUV

[Chillidoggy]

On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 17:09, PhilW said:

Can someone tell me why the world needs SUV's? 

One could ask the same question about sports cars....................

[Frickin_idiot]

1 hour ago, auRouge said:

@TBD good point, they've got a lot of experience using parts from other manufactures.

I like the fact they can use a super reliable engine from Toyota or Volvo, tune it to perform whilst maintaining that reliability. Bring on the Volvo wiring looms and crash test technology, this marriage of knowledge is the best of both worlds.

This SUV will drive and handle like a proper car, have the lifestyle factor of an SUV and the reliability of that very well known and loved Scandinavian brand...

Exciting times for Lotus. Although I wonder about the profitability of the planned SUV. It's a high volume market (JMG only planning 10k cars? I might be wrong), not sure how much Volvo makes out of an XC60 or Porsche from a Macan but I bet it's not huge... the profit will come from the high numbers sold no? If Lotus needs to make this car too expensive to make profit then they'll be at risk as convincing the public to buy a new SUV against a tried and tested car will be tough.

I wonder if in Europe the Volvo's will get a bit of Lotus tuning and then brand that?!! Lotus Carlton effect... low numbers, bit more expensive but highly desirable.

That would make an already v good XC even more tempting against a Porsche or BMW sporty SUV

Scaling up volumes to 10k sounds great for the future of the company. I fail to see how the existing dealer network can handle the volume of sales and maintenance / warranty work.

 

A lot of work is ahead.

[NedaSay]

I think by the time the SUV comes out the dealer and support network will have been seriously beefed up. Volvo 4S hubs will be asked to provide support to Polestar, Lynk & Co and Lotus. Some 4S franchises will open Lotus and/or Polestar showrooms. The investment in these showrooms will be compounded by the fact that Geely needs to build the infrastructure for Lynk & Co anyway  Lynk and Polestar are supposed to go direct to consumer but they will still need fully fitted service centres Lotus should have access to these too. And then they will still have their own sales network. 

As for scalling, the volume seems to be inline with what Lamborghini, Bentley, Maserati were/are aiming for initially, Bentley Bentayga sales have blown up the roof, the Urus has an oversubscribed order book....The Levante sales are sluggish but the vehicle was marred with faults and defaults at launch. 

When it comes to Lotus, at least half of the 10k will be sold in China alone, that leaves only 5000 cars for the rest of the world. That is not that much. Lotus with the help of Volvo and Geely only has to execute.The parts bin is solid, the engineering strength involved is mighty and  the quality of the finished product is more than adequate. We get the "Chinese" Volvo over here, I sat in one very recently and I have nothing to say when it comes to assembly quality, it was way up there. 

When JMG said Lotus will only use modules and not a platform that was a bit of white lie so as to reassure the profane that Lotus DNA will not be diluted by the presence of Volvo DNA in the finished product. But the truth is as @TBD said, that Lotus has always used a high volume of parts coming from Ford, GM or Toyota, the core DNA of Lotus lies elsewhere. The truth is that we are going to get a tuned "'Scalable Product Architecture"  vehicle with a Lotus skin that will be developed thoroughly, they are giving themselves no less than 4 years, they could have been much faster I believe but there's a lot riding on the shoulders of this SUV not so much room for errors. Hopefully not a make or break scenario but the SUV will probably guarantee Lotus a greater level of "autonomy" within the group.

 

[Snoopy1969]

in german´s car press today..........

[Bibs]

That's some minor ps to a Maserati Levante gran sport

[Snoopy1969]

@bibs funny, I have thought that the car reminds me of the Maserati, but this pic clearly Shows how "simple" the Illustrators work today (have seen the maserati several times in munich and all I can say...".......ummpff" (personal taste of course....no as ugly as a Bentley betanxx but ...)

[Bibs]

There aren't a lot of changes made, probably took them 15 mins! I think the Lotus SUV will be curvier and much prettier than that.

[KAS-118]

The front looks Porsche to me.....