The Donald.

[ramjet]

So let's see if I understand this?

According to all of the Donalds, and others, there was no meddling from outside bodies when he won 4 years ago. But now, democratic postal votes are only legal if they make you win. If they cause you to lose, they should all be illegal so that you can continue on with your pseudo-dictatorship?

There are real reasons why people detest politics.

[tim_marra]

[ramjet]

Son: "Dad, why is there very little history for the USA from 2016 to 2020?

Dad: "Fake president son. Fake president."

[comem47]

GOOD RIDDANCE

 

 

[comem47]

Another Trump memorial song

 

 

 

[ramjet]

In the past,

Secret Service Agent Boss: "Morning. John & Bob, you are on POTUS today."

John & Bob (at the same time): "Isn't there something else we can do? Cut the Whitehouse lawn with scissors? Walk someone's dogs? Ohh hang on, we've got it. We retire."

Some things are just not worth taking a bullet for.

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, Loquacious Lew said:

The President is responsible for foreign policy here which clearly is why ours has been so befuddled if not outright corrupt for the last four years.

But at least he didn't start a war, legal or otherwise like the previous Presidential trend before him. Every cloud and all that.

I'm no Trump fan (to be honest reasonably ambivalent as it's your President) however some stuff I agreed with, well the sentiment, if not how it was executed.

1. Make America great again - a call to arms for US companies and citizens to encourage and choose "made in America" to support jobs and drive prosperity and provide opportunity

2. Calling out the NATO members for NOT fulfilling their obligations financial or otherwise and assuming the US would just take care of it

3. Calming down Russia which is much more likely to do something rash than China

4. Drawing red lines with China on trade and showing some teeth. It needs to be done 

His policy execution was that of a child, however you can see how it could appeal to a large chunk of the population who don't have the means to buy say a Lotus, have country club membership and struggle everyday to not drown.

Just to pick up on your point re "disintegration of social fabric". Hugely disingenuous to lay that on Trump in my opinion. The US is institutionally racist and your Police in many counties and states are to blame. In some ways to outsiders like me it still looks as though many parts of the US are living in the 50's from an attitude point of view. Trumps handling and tweets during the flashpoints caused by this institutational racism did not help of course, but his policies or tenure where not the cause. That goes back a long, long, way.

On a personal point. Biden lost me completely this week when pictures of him circulated meeting Gerry Adams and an IRA assassin. Disgraceful that at any time someone with the desire to be President gave them air time. My wife lost a cousin in the Tower of London and I lost a school friend who was executed in cold blood at 19. So it's still a bit raw after all this time. Already we are hearing Biden will give us a hard time over Brexit because of the US Irish lobby. Fine by me and if he goes too far then he can shove his UK support up his arse and move all of his military bases to Ireland and out if the UK. Fine by me.

As I said before. Every cloud.

So on the whole, Biden is good news but let's see what he really delivers for you, and the rest of us. Then we can judge.   

[Loquacious Lew]

^ I find little in terms of concrete results from Trump's actions regardless of their perceived intents, and I find it especially naive to dismiss the damage he has done  to our public  discourse and institutions.    I am   surprised some can  fail to see how he has helped widen the divide in our society and fed into its fears.  That has been his major accomplishment and what he will be remembered for. It's hardly memorable to note that he slapped ineffectual tariffs on China.  

On another point, Here is one view regarding what Trump's NATO policy has wrought. 

 I find  little to defend in Trump's behaviors and actions since so few have had any positive result or are auspicious enough to outweigh the harm he has done to our national discourse.

 

Regarding Biden's meetings with IRA operatives, I thought the troubles were over three decades ago but I see the issue still dwells.  It's your civil war I suppose and perhaps I should watch closer, but I can't comment since it is given so little notice here, especially  these days.  I  take your word for it that meeting with IRA agents is not popular in Britain.  That's all I have on that so pardon my ignorance and perceived indifference on this.  

I don't find the silver lining in Trump's cloud and it seems neither did a majority of my  countrymen.  Sadly, they were not nearly a large enough majority to suit me, but that's what fear and lies will get you.  Some people can be fooled all of the time.  Meanwhile, despite the handicaps placed before our new administration, I can only be overjoyed that Trump is gone.  You may not care since he's our president, not yours,  but you've been  active on this thread which is of course, about the man himself, our president for four long years. While you don't care, you have distinct opinions (no problem, mind)   and an ongoing desire to debate the questions surrounding him.  Curious, but it makes for stimulating conversation, and I'm all for that!    

 

 

 

[C8RKH]

You have completely misinterpreted my post, where I spoke about the sentiments behind the messages. You ignored the parts about the institutional issues in the US.  It seems our troubles were over 3 decades ago but unfortunately for many Americans the troubles have never stopped and we look back at you thinking you're still very much stuck in the 50's. What did Obama really do about that?  My point is Presidents comes and go. Some are good and some are meh.  But the society in the US is not changing or has not changed and that is nothing to do with who the President is. 

[Barrykearley]

Anyone know where Biden is due to send the military to bomb ?

[comem47]

Trump Tower????

[ramjet]

Golf course in Florida?

[C8RKH]

Golf course near Aberdeen more like it.

Good news is shares are jumping up all over the place. 15 months and can retire....

[Kimbers]

I just hope Biden looks after the American people and businesses. Biden's odds of dying in Office are terrible, not worth the bet. When your 2 candidates are 72 and 77 you have to wonder just how they manage to appeal to the people of America at all?  

[USAndretti42]

From the results of the elections of members of Congress, it seems clear to me that it was more a case of people voting against Trump rather than for Biden.  The GOP keeping control of the Senate will make it difficult for Biden to achieve much particularly as McConell is likely to be more concerned with making a Democrat president look bad than in helping the country.  When Obama was elected during the worst economic downturn since the Depression, McConell said his number 1 prority was making Obama a 1-term president, not helping the economy.

Regarding Barry's point, in-person voting is not fair as it means the votes of all miltary personell serving overseas and American citizens who live out of the country don't get to vote.

Why do so many still support Trump?  Well they certainly believe that the Democrats willl turn the States into some socialist state (I don't know why they belive this.  For example, Trump's administration is subsidising farmers.  Isn't that socialist?)  They also say that Trump kept his election promises.  He did build a few miles of new wall and replaced some hundreds of miles of fencing and he did move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and ban many Muslims from entering the country.  They ignore that he didn't repeal and replace Obamacare.  They also believe all the negative stuff, such as Russian interference, asking the Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden to get their miltary aid, millions spent on trips to golf courses and in Trump properties are lies to hurt him.  He has done a good job of undermining truth and getting his view out there.

As far as I can make out, there have been no credible reports of vote rigging on a large scale.  If the Democrats had done that, why wouldn't they have filled Congress with their candidates as well?

[C8RKH]

12 hours ago, USAndretti42 said:

American citizens who live out of the country don't get to vote

I'm probably in the minority but am used to that   But, I actually believe that if you are "living" permanently outside of your country you should not get to vote UNLESS you are paying taxes back in your country.  I'm pretty sure (though not by any means certain) that US citizens do largely pay US taxes despite where they live, or something like that.

So in my mind, if you're British, but live in a tax haven and do not pay taxes here then simple. No vote.  If you're retired and live in Spain, then no vote. Etc. But then I am pretty red and blue about these things (trying to be PC by not using other colours).

 

To keep on topic, a lot of people voted for Trump because he was the Republican candidate and they could never bring themselves to vote Democratic. We have similar muppets over here, I mean, why else did they vote for Corbyn at the last election? It could hardly have been about his policies, no, it was the colour of his ticket. It surely cannot be that hard to understand this "loyalty" to a party as opposed to a leader.

 

 

[SFO]

4 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So in my mind, if you're British, but live in a tax haven and do not pay taxes here then simple. No vote.  If you're retired and live in Spain, then no vote. Etc. 

Agree. Why should you vote when you are not affected by the outcome of your vote, and when you are not contributing to the country?

[ChrisJ]

Postal votes should only be available if you are away from home on the date of the election, or have a medical reason why you cannot get to a polling booth - I think this is how it used to be in the UK a few years back.

They should not be available for people who can't be arsed to get off their fat bum and go to the polling booth and vote in person.

 

[C8RKH]

3 minutes ago, ChrisJ said:

Postal votes should only be available if you are away from home on the date of the election, or have a medical reason why you cannot get to a polling booth - I think this is how it used to be in the UK a few years back.

They should not be available for people who can't be arsed to get off their fat bum and go to the polling booth and vote in person.

 

Why not? As long as they live here, are registered, why can't they have a postal vote? Maybe they are just busy and so a postal vote will be more convenient for them? Surely the goal is to get everyone who is eligible to vote, to vote.  Bring on electronic voting for me, as long as we can ensure it is secure then why not?

[Techyd]

The technology is available for on-line voting and there are plenty of multi factor authentication methods available, but I don't think on the whole, the trust is there.  Personally, I'd be okay with it. Can't be less trust worthy than leaving to hand counts??

Why do I seem to think / have a memory of digital voting booths being talked about or maybe used, perhaps it was from the US previous election, I can't remember?  Would certainly make counting the votes easier and faster - well instant!

[Chillidoggy]

Given how the banks are affected by data breaches (and they must spend a lot of money protecting against them), I’m not sure I’d trust any government to keep it secure.

What has always amazed me is when I turn up to the polling station, I hand them the polling card so they can take the number, but there’s no other check on my identity whatsoever. I might have dropped the card in the street, chucked it out in the rubbish, or, as is often the case, mail gets delivered to the wrong house. A secondary identity check should be carried out, to my way of thinking.

Postal voting should only be available to those who cannot attend a polling station on the day, but only for a few valid reasons, and not a long nonsensical list of get-outs.

[comem47]

So long as Mitch McConnell runs the Senate it will never be OK (unless of course Republicans are winning in results) I've never seen anyone switch so much on opinion according to partisanship.  I think it should be open season on Turtles now !!! 😉

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Just a quick question on the “two nations separated by a common language” theme.

In the UK a turtle is a water-borne creature with flippers and a tortoise is its land-based cousin with legs, often kept as pets.

In the US it seems that both animals are called turtles. Is that correct?

[C8RKH]

No, in the UK, a turtle is a kind of jumper that was commonly worn in the 70's.  Nothing to do with tortoises at all.

[mdw]

33 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

No, in the UK, a turtle is a kind of jumper that was commonly worn in the 70's.  Nothing to do with tortoises at all.

Ooooooooh yes and it had to be made of wool by your mum  with no stretch and 1" less than the circumferance of your own head.