Future of Lotus

[jep]

Interesting that a 1600KG 'Vette would be considered a rival to Evora. There in lies the problem for Lotus.

For my sports car needs, I would not consider the C8 a Lotus alternative. Yet my opinion is frankly not relevant to either GM or Lotus. I don't buy new cars unless very special (EG. 340R and the last one, a Ford GT in 2005).  

If those buying new cars do consider the 'Vette instead of Evora, then Lotus will have to ensure their new cars appeal to that audience. An approach I fully support. The Lotus USP currently of light weight, handling, steering and suspension is clearly not something that 99.99% of those spending on new metal/fibreglass are concerned about. There is no point in fighting this truth. Give the market what it wants (however horrid I may consider that to be). 

The Ford GT was an amazing bit of kit; a wonderful analogue car. Day to day though, a 276bhp Evora is better in the UK. If you want supercar performance and fun on the twisty, sweeping UK B roads, a McLaren is way ahead of the Ford GT.  I would be amazed if the C8 were not closer in feel to the Ford than Lotus or McLaren. 

That is not to be at all critical of the GM car. If it is popular and sells, Lotus do indeed need to take note and I am hopeful that Geely can give Lotus a bright future, even if that means most of the cars may not be to my taste. 

Justin 

[C8RKH]

A lot of people like numbers and boasting about them and demonstrating how fast they are - in a straight line.  There is a reason why people by '63 AMG / RS6 etc saloons. And it is generally because it is not about the drive of the cars, but the fact that all that power compensates for the lack of stuff elsewhere.

I can imagine the new C8 will be a pretty spectacular car to own and drive. It will draw crowds, like a Lotus, of smiling people keen to know more.  It will go well too. Judging by the videos in the US of cars on track they are capable and fun.

I don't think it would win my heart over and would replace my 410 Sport. However, I've been looking at a Bentley GT/AM DB11 as a new daily driver to replace the S90, and the C8 would actually probably make more sense...  So, hmmm, I might be in for a test drive in RHD form.

Never had a big 'Murican muscle car. Now might be the time. 

[NedaSay]

The future will come soon enough but shall we remind ourselves of the present: 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-lotus-evora-gt-is-exactly-what-a-sports-car-sh-1843616532

[jep]

Another great review for Evora. Just like 2009 and every year since. They still won't sell enough to make it profitable though.

It breaks my heart but that is the reality. 

Justin 

[au-yt]

2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

The future will come soon enough but shall we remind ourselves of the present: 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-lotus-evora-gt-is-exactly-what-a-sports-car-sh-1843616532

“Look, this car is more expensive than a C8 Corvette, it’s more expensive than a 718, a ZL1, a GT500, and any number of other great cars”
 

We also need to remember that the EVORA is hand made, compared to the above list. And the C8 according to this article isn’t that profitable, https://www.motortrend.com/news/source-chevrolet-corvette-c8-stingray-loss-leader/

 

 

[jep]

C8 may not be profitable but GM can go bust numerous times without, it seems, much fall-out. C8 was supposed to debut 2010 but delayed...…….as GM went bust.

It just shows how tough Lotus job is. A miracle they have survived as they have for so long. And still making brilliant cars.

Justin

[mdavies]

EVs are central to these thoughts, but viewed from outside and as "things to be dealt with" from the viewpoint of drivers of current “enthusiast’s cars”. Such a car as available to many enthusiasts. Not a super or hyper but looking the part and with a quite decent amount of get up and go - meaningfully more than most traffic met or, more relevantly, caught up with. A Lotus perhaps.

Equally, the EVs I have in mind are not those even distantly related to the Evija, but the many that – we are told – will apparently soon form a goodly proportion of traffic. The sort of daily driver that might be purchased after reading “£6,000 subsidy”, by those that otherwise would have driven their ICE equivalent. And, relevant to my thoughts, many by drivers who would much prefer to have an “enthusiasts car” – if only their circumstances were otherwise.

Before coming to the issues , I must say that the detail of my topic can only be written about with circumspection and dependence that the intended audience will “know what I mean”.

Whatever the motor magazine photos of deserted, well-sighted, swooping stretches of road in remote parts portray, for most of us, most of the time, meaningful enjoyment of our “enthusiast’s car” necessarily involves overtaking “ordinary” cars.  After assessing all the factors – including of course that the car to be overtaken is indeed “ordinary” - that is usually no great problem. Except sometimes.

When the driver of the ordinary car, despite having been followed at a steady speed from a sensible distance, takes his resentment - or in some cases the belief that an “enthusiast’s car” is an abomination that “shouldn’t be allowed” - to the point of obstructing being overtaken by accelerating from the steady speed as soon as the overtaking starts. Other drivers of the same mindset may fume equally but, knowing that their car is incapable of meaningful acceleration, only express themselves by other forms of attempted communication. Or perhaps control their emotions enough merely to fume inwardly. But impotently.

The possibility of such occasional behaviour can usually now be overcome by clean and rapid overtaking, exploiting full performance during the overtake and continuing it sufficiently to get well clear - ‘nuff said I trust.

But now EVs.

And my first point - need I explain? The seemingly “ordinary” car will be capable of real acceleration. And, as in most cases being driven only short distances - else not being owned - capable of real acceleration repeatedly if the driver wishes.  Acceleration in many cases equal – or initially, quite likely greater – than that of the current enthusiast’s car. And often be driven, I am concerned, by a significant and, with today’s commonly held world views, increasing number of those I have described.  But no longer impotent, and able to vent their feelings effectively.

Which leads to my second point. A new Lotus, to be able to hold its head up, should be a hybrid. A hybrid unconcerned with electric mileage, efficiency, all those things discussed in the EV thread, but rather able to add substantial electric boost when required for short intense periods - and then be recharged by the IC engine, equally rapidly.  That means being not any common battery hybrid, but a super-capacitor hybrid.

With a push-to-pass button on the steering wheel!  An ICAP I will call it. The only thing worth having in the electric future!   IMHO, of course.

[EuropaSman]

I've just seen this pop up on my mobile phone:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/352492/lotus-abandons-petrol-power-all-electric-future

It has "Auto Express Exclusive" images of a new Lotus. I suspect that they maybe not official as I see a lot of Evora bits on it, which makes me think it's a photoshopped image of the James Bond "The Spy Who Loved Me" Evora S1 (it's got the Jag X-Type door mirrors for a start!). Interesting article though.

 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

And the same number plate.

Anyway, we already knew there would be no more ICE after the next sports car.

Most interesting/depressing is that the new sports car appears to have been postponed by another 6 months or so. We were hoping for a reveal end 2020, but Popham is now talking mid 2021, so deliveries will be starting at about the same time the new electric car is revealed at end 2021. Seems a bit daft, so I can’t see the EV being on schedule either.

That’ll be 3+ years since Popham joined...

Edited June 12, 2020 by LotusLeftLotusRight

[hedgerley]

Seems to be the bastard child of an Evora and an Evija. Quite a mash up. For some reason, clicking on the +5 image icon and scrolling down reveals......what appears to be the Eterne from 2010 (quite a pretty thing, that and the 2010 Elite). Makes you wonder if Autoexpress know what the hell they are talking about.

[tim_marra]

Auto Express once went with the cover headline "on the road with the M250" 

Edit: I was close!

 

 

[C8RKH]

Auto Express has been serving up this brand of complete and utter shite "exclusives" for years. It's about time the Industry started to call them out on it. But they won't of course.

[Bravo73]

4 hours ago, EuropaSman said:It has "Auto Express Exclusive" images of a new Lotus.

 

Oh, dear. That is horrible. 
 

All that proves is that AutoExpress should leave car designing to the professionals. 

[Likuid]

I am not sure I am 100% convinced its the last ICE car from Lotus. I mean if that were the case, why even bother? Why not just start with a whole new line of EV and not waste time with an ICE car? I know this car may be a car to help bridge the gap with dealers, but it seems like a lot of work for what is most likely to be little reward. Even if its based on an existing platform like the Evora, there is still a lot of engineering and money that needs to be spent to get a new car off the ground. If the "last" ICE car sells like hot cakes, relative to Lotus' normal sales anyways, are they really just going to abandon it and the idea of ever making another ICE again? I have a feeling this next car is a test. If it sells very well (at least very well in Lotus standards) my guess is ICE at Lotus won't be completely out of the question for future cars. Lotus is probably smart not telling people that their future is ICE because that may very well end up a lie, whereas if they have a change of heart and they will make EV and ICE cars for a long while still I don't think anyone would be upset.

I mean Geely obviously is pushing hard for EV. They essentially mandated the Evija. In an interview with Russle Carr he basically said the higher ups and Geely said "we want an electric hypercar" as one of their first requests. Maybe this next car is a car Geely is allowing Lotus to possibly prove ICE is still viable. If it fails then most likely it would be the last Lotus ICE. If it succeeds then maybe ICE will still be on the table.

[tim_marra]

1 hour ago, Bravo73 said:

All that proves is that AutoExpress should leave car designing to the professionals. 

Not so much designing, more like photoshopping.

[Nathan Pitman]

What’s the usual development time for a sports car leveraging an existing chassis? Feels like it’s been a loooooong time we’ve been waiting for a sniff of something, anything (vaguely affordable). 

[Simon Bateman]

I saw this earlier and although its obviously a result of someone with too much time on their hands, I quite liked it from the front view. The rear view is shocking though and got me thinking that lotus need to be a bit careful if they try to incorporate the rear from the Evija on what would inevitably be a smaller platform for the new car.             

[Nathan Pitman]

I agree the back looks horrendous. It does however show how you could take the Evora, swap all the panels out, tweak the interior and engine and call it a new model (McLaren style). 

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, Nathan Pitman said:

What’s the usual development time for a sports car leveraging an existing chassis? Feels like it’s been a loooooong time we’ve been waiting for a sniff of something, anything (vaguely affordable). 

I think we are all frustrated with the timescales and lack of information. My personal frustration with Popham et al is running fairly high.. At least Bahahahahaha actually got some designs and demo's out for crying out loudly like a crying baby.

[Jason is Chasing]

I have to wonder here, after recently driving a GT (Hi my name is Jason, If I'm out of bounds, please don't hesitate to send me packing)

I had some very distinct impressions that were quite lasting, firstly being here in the United States the average person didn't know what the vehicle was, which I can understand given it's a Petrolhead brand truly, but the attention it received was not something I was prepared for coming out of my 4C.

Secondly, had I not been looking for something that could create 'with' me a Driving experience I would have not looked towards Lotus myself, and I do wonder how many people would understand that they would feel like Absolute Legends behind the wheel of a Lotus.  

Thirdly, It had been wildly misstated and abused in much of the Motoring Press, and unfairly so; having not been a Lotus Owner myself it's impossible to speak to some of the Dealer/Manufacturer neglect tales I've read.

I seen reference to the C8, a little earlier in this thread, and I think that's a highly valid point, here in California, they're touching the price of the Evora GT but I think it's well known that the C8 was built with very little immediate profit margin in mind.  I haven't tested one yet, but I'm scheduled to, so I'll be curious as a former Vette apostle what will come from it.

In that, I'm quite curious about what I'm watching being referenced as "gamma", and putting me behind the wheel of the GT, I was absolutely sold on the driving experience, it was absolutely Brilliant.  It's unclear to me at this point if I should wait, or if I should pull the trigger on a GT (Bird in hand), I suspect whatever is coming would be pretty groundbreaking if it's built with the same sense of purpose Lotus obviously builds each vehicle with. 

I do however wonder what an actual release would look like, how difficult would one be to get in the US, when an official release date will come, truly it looks like they've created a convert in which they can only give one form of Communion, I'm not in a position where I would switch cars, every six months, I do hope they release something soon (Thats how I ended up here, looking for information :p).  

Have you guys seen any actual date on when or if it will make the US Market?  I'm starting to wonder if they're going to build the Space Shuttle with the rumors, 

 

Sorry for rambling on, I have a tendency to talk!  

On 12/06/2020 at 10:16, Bravo73 said:

 

Oh, dear. That is horrible. 
 

All that proves is that AutoExpress should leave car designing to the professionals. 

God I hope that's not it, it would be a disservice to the Brand indeed. 

[scotty435]

Sorry for the McLaren pic, a reliable source as said expect a exhaust similar to this on the next model.

[C8RKH]

So no boot then at the back. interesting. I do like that back end there, but then I did and still do like the original MP4 back end (well, all of it really)

[Jason is Chasing]

McLaren I believe knocked it out of the Park with styling (I haven't driven one), I was wondering if Lotus would follow suit or if they intended to recreate the Exige, or rebrand using the Elan.

 

I hope it's a proper manual transmission

Edited June 26, 2020 by Bibs

[au-yt]

 On the Future of LOTUS I’d like to see the availability of post purchase and have fitted factory approved options.
What I mean is things like carbon options, shocks Etc fitted by dealers and recorded against the cars official history. It would mean that mods become official., I know of no manufacturer who does this.  Yes it would be expensive but in the long term mean “officially” being able to update cars.

[C8RKH]

Isn't this what McLaren does in a way? For instance when you look at the original MP4 cars when future enhancements and upgrades came out they were available, and indeed often upgraded for free, for the older cars. Also Macca has the factory tuning options where you can add everything from exhausts to carbon bits all through the factory and dealers.