Future of Lotus

[gregs24]

Alternatively they can sell all they can make at the moment - if the speculated orders for the USA are true they need to get as many cars there as possible.

[Frickin_idiot]

Have the US sales figures been released as yet?

[Bravo73]

Not yet. But judging by the number of US eBay ads for new Evora 400s, they don't seem to be too hard to get hold of. 

I suspect that the majority of JMG's US sales figures were for dealer ordered cars, rather than actual customer orders. 

[JayEmm]

I believe @Bravo73 is correct. I've heard stories that a couple of dealers eventually told Lotus "no thanks" after the wait became too long without a particular time limit.

I don't think I'd want to be a dealer in a seasonal part of the USA just taking deliveries of a bunch of $100,000 sports cars - you could be sitting on them for a good six months at least. Okay, in southern California not so much, but other places will surely have seasonal trade like we do.

I certainly hope Lotus aren't just piling cars into dealers because this was what happened with the S1 Evora and it will kill car values. Very difficult to convince a customer of the value of a vehicle when it's been sat in your showroom for six months, or there are eight unsold ones all there. Hate them as much as I do, this is one thing Ferrari excel at

[Bibs]

18 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

you could be sitting on them for a good six months at least

They have a stocking plan to offset this cost. 

18 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

this was what happened with the S1 Evora

Only under JMG's stewardship. Lotus used to release SMMT registration figures. Now they release wholesale figures but that said, it's hardly had a negative impact on residuals which are incredibly strong for the Evora. Early cars haven't lost a penny for almost 4 years now, not many cars can claim that. 

[JayEmm]

Call me an old cynic but it sounds a bit to me like Lotus are confusing the words "built" and "sold"

[Bibs]

As far as they're concerned (and is the case in many other industries), if a car has left the factory it's gone and goes into their wholesale figures. It's not a brilliant strategy but the dealers are getting through the cars, eventually. 

[JayEmm]

As long as the number made and the number sold are roughly even, there's no problem - I guess when they are making them faster than can be sold, that's where the issues begin.

I am interested to know how the UK situation is looking, as I don't think any UK spec cars have been made (on the Evora front) for a few months

[TBD]

Looking by the stock of dealers here, they have been getting quite a few cars, but seemingly no stock build up. Sure, with a probable sale of Lotus cars JMG will certainly be polishing the numbers, but so far I haven't heard of any dealers complaining . 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, JayEmm said:

Call me an old cynic but it sounds a bit to me like Lotus are confusing the words "built" and "sold"

@jayemm what is your point here? Are you criticising Lotus for doing what just about every other car manufacturer does and what is regarded as standard practice?

It is not uncommon to go past dealers and see large numbers of unregistered cars stored there, including OPC's.  Looking around PH's, Autotrader and other sources, there is not a glut of heavily discounted new and unregistered 400's out there. Hell, there are even some with the Lotus words on the dash (so early cars) that are not being heavily discounted.

Maybe, just maybe, the 400 is selling. I mean early last year Porsche was managing 911 over supply by cutting the UK allocation and incentivising the dealers to shift the cars they had. So, if it's good enough for the Porsche?  And what about BMW - cars everywhere at dealers un-registered and pre-registered.

[Barrykearley]

Plenty of Audi, pugeot, Renault, toyota, VW and others hanging around in storage facilities round this part of the world 

[JayEmm]

The point is when you're a car maker on the scale of Lotus, a couple of hundred unsold cars hanging around isn't always helpful. I personally don't think it's a good sign when dealers are trying to flog year-old vehicles as "brand new", maybe we're just so familiar with Lotus and the little changes they make that it's more obvious when they do it. Let's face it, we all want Lotus to remain a reasonably exclusive carmaker. Toyota are going to make more cars this week than Lotus have made in their history. 

My sole concern for the company is if the management are building an excess of cars with the intent solely of saying they've "sold" more than they really have. It'll backfire. Lotus don't sell enough cars to necessitate keeping huge backlogs, and I expect a lot of owners will want a car to their spec, particularly if there is little or no financial advantage in buying dealer stock. I'm basing this only on limited conversations I have had with a few dealers, and a number of new Evora 400s that I saw when I was looking that still haven't found homes, six months later. There's also a number of dealers that still have Elise "S" models they're trying to shift as "new". 

Maybe this is business as usual for Lotus, I don't know, maybe it is - in which case, great. Maybe I'm just seeing one or two dealers that are not doing enough to shift cars, at least a couple of them certainly do seem to be shifting stock in the usual fashion.

[C8RKH]

It's business as usual for 99% of car builders so what's the problem? They all do it and that new BMW, Merc or Audi someone buys could have been sat in a holding facility for over a year.

How many F Types do we think there are both in dealer compounds and in Jaguar bulk storage facilities? My estimate is several thousand.

Also, on one hand the complaints are that Lotus have no spares, no cash and then the complaints they are building excess cars that no-one wants!  

How are the paying for that or does it not cost money and cash flow to build these cars?

My worry is that it does not feel that there is consistency in the complaining / worrying here.

[Mark Blanchard]

I've heard UK Dealers are having problems getting 400s on their forcourts.  A lot of 400s on the production line are going to the States at the moment.

[JayEmm]

I had a brief conversation with Lotus today, I think the USA run is finishing up, but Lotus' stock on 400s is apparently now very low. Hopefully no-one in the UK winds up waiting too long for a factory build. 410s will be delivered before Christmas I think, or at least some will.

[C8RKH]

Maybe if Lotus management had a policy of building an excess of cars, and then forcing them on the dealers with the intent solely of saying they've "sold" more than they really have, it would have ensured that no UK customer would have to have waited for their chance to have a 400 as the US sucked up the current production run! 

I'm seeing some dealers advertising new 400's at £80k+, that is cars they have in stock, and then some "older" stock but new cars (things like the LOTUS silver letters on the dash giving the game away) being advertised for £690k. So a £10k saving which is not insignificant in my book if you can live with the colour / spec on offer. Cheapest new 400 I've heard of was bought for £68,500.

I do my factory and heritage tour next Wednesday so will see what is on the line. Can't wait... 

[JayEmm]

Let us know what you see - I expect there should be a fair few 410s on the line by then

[99Problems]

From the limited dealer network in this part of the US, both dealers seem to have a couple cars, which they've had for a bit, and haven't yet sold.

They were clearly wholesaled to the dealer, not actually "sold" to end customers.  Maybe they had more stock that came in that had been preordered and were promptly picked up?  I'm not on this or the US based Lotus forum much these days, but checking in this week, I haven't seen anyone in the US saying they've received their purchased 400.  Take that for what its worth, I have no data to say how many potential 400 owners frequent this or the other most well known Lotus forum.

[hedgerley]

All good but no update on the ownership speculation.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2020-lotus-elise-confirmed-following-return-profit

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

That new Elise rendering looks lovely. I hope it looks like that in real life.

As for the data, wasn't 2000 cars the target for this year, not 2017? Everything seems to have been put back 12 months. As for end 2017 for the Evora Roadster, does he mean customer deliveries? We assumed it would at least be on the stand at Geneva.

[C8RKH]

If that rendering is anything like real, I'm in. I'll have an Elise 280Cup on 50:50.  Lovely.....

[Bibs]

Quote

Lotus Cars had a positive cash-flow for the first time in its history

 I tire of reading that bullshit. 

[JayEmm]

They seem to shoehorn it into every press release they do. I know at least one person who isn't happy with the implication!

[DarrylV8]

More likely first time since DB moved on

[Bravo73]

7 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

That new Elise rendering looks lovely. I hope it looks like that in real life.

As for the data, wasn't 2000 cars the target for this year, not 2017? Everything seems to have been put back 12 months. As for end 2017 for the Evora Roadster, does he mean customer deliveries? We assumed it would at least be on the stand at Geneva.

The Elise rendering will be made up by Autocar. I doubt that it has any basis in reality. 

The 'end of 2017' date for the Evora Roadster is also a fabrication. JMG only recently said that it would be another 22-24 months (which, in itself, is probably wildly optimistic).