Future of Lotus

[PAR]

I think they should/will think of a Volvo by Lotus special car, the Omega was epic in its way, the cortina as well so why not getting the benefits for Volvo as well and it will make a bit of noise for the lotus name. 

[Bravo73]

Polestar. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Not sure I’d want to buy a Lotus from a Volvo dealer in the UK yet. Maybe that would be OK for regions where Lotus dealers are much thinner on the ground.

[Loquacious Lew]

It's impossible to do anything in the USA without being prepared to invest in the market.  Lotus has yet to show a willingness to do that.  There is no connection to the few new car buyers who rather bravely plunked down Porsche money to invest in an invisible product.

 

Any happy Lotus owners, (make no mistake, I am happy with my car) are only getting along because there are a few centers in the country where there are properly experienced techs and more importantly, the will to solve problems for customers.  It takes will to own one of these cars in what is effectively a back water market and even more will to sell and stock them.

 

Even though we look more and more like a third world country by the day,  treating the USA as a backwater is a tremendous mistake.  Nothing good can happen for Lotus here until they realize making money in the USA isn't going to happen until they do everything everybody here knows has to be done.  

There are no end of great ideas we as fans and owners of Lotus cars can float but first things first as far as America is concerned.  They need to prove that buying a Lotus today is a different experience than it was buying one a few years ago.  That process has not yet developed.

 

Eighty new Volvo dealerships masquerading as Lotus shops is not going to fix this at the current point in time.  A whole new mindset is required here.  No evidence of Geely investment in the USA exists.

[au-yt]

Selling through Volvo dealers I see as a bad move, like selling Lambo’s through Audi. Lotus cars are a specialist brand and they need to focus on that.

They need dedicated specialist dealers who understand the LOTUS DNA. The Australian dealers are just that and offer much more than sales and service. 

They support Motorsport and enter teams, that’s run major track experience days for levels.

I know not everyone wants to track their cars but it enables owners and potential owners to appreciate the cars beyond the everyday. It’s a niche, I believe they need to work on.

Dealers shouldn’t be a pointed because they see a just as a way of selecting sales outlets but dealers based on the Lotus DNA, and train the service guys properly, even offer apprenticeships.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by au-yt

[silverfrost]

I love the idea of lotus only dealerships,  or lotus cars shown in showrooms with other sports car brands,  but i think it would be a good idea to show lotus cars in volvo showrooms,  volvo cars are pretty nice, decent quality as they have always been known for,  

I always think it is far better to have lotus cars more in the public eye,  take for instance on these forums we have the " spotted " thread.   It just goes to show how rare this brand is to be seen on the open road,  even the elise which is the more modern and lower priced model by lotus is still a rare site on the roads. 

Also given the fact that lotus may be moving towards the suv sector and other varients,  this makes perfect sense to me with their product plan. 

I wish them all the luck in the world and hope get the brand more in the face of the public,  after all publicity is publicity 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Good point about the SUVs: they are obviously a close fit to what Volvo already offers and presumably their staff’s product and market knowledge would be compatible. Not so convinced about the sports cars though. Are we even 100% certain that the SUV will be available in the West since presumably they won’t be making them here, or is it Chinese production for the Asian market only?

[C8RKH]

I think, @LotusLeftLotusRight the SUV is definitely bound for UK/Western shores. There ha always been a lot of interest in the press in the West re the Lotus SUV and just cannot see it not coming here as the market is huge. I've even resigned myself the inevitable which will be there is a good chance I will have one! I lot will depend on the forecasted price/residuals and I'm sure the wife will secretly enjoy the fact that she now has a Lotus too!

Geely have announced the new FY11 Sports SUV and this could very easily, with some tweaks and weight loss be the "mule" for the new Lotus SUV - I have to say in the images below it looks bang on design when you look at the BMW, Merc offerings and in the colour below it would look superb next to my Fire Red 410 Sport. It's based on the Volvo XC40 platform so I think it is fair to say it is going to be a very good looking and specc'd car and I am sure the Lotus version will make it handle sublimely as normal

If we have to have a Lotus SUV then this will be fine, I do hope it means that like Porsche they can then use the extra sales/revenue to keep the DNA of the sports cars - maybe the route of Porsche will just be followed.  

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105741/geely-reveals-new-fy11-coupe-suv-based-on-volvo-xc40-platform

 

[NedaSay]

On 19/01/2019 at 07:12, Nathan Pitman said:

@PAR I guess I was imagining more a of a situation where they simply drop a demonstrator in every well positioned Volvo dealership and refer anyone interested beyond a demo to the nearest Lotus dealership and then pay the demonstrating dealership a referral fee. But yea... not simple when you have a traditional dealership (non direct sales) model.

I'm pretty sure it won't happen. We may get Lotus branded showrooms right next to or even within a Volvo dealership but in order not to dilute the brand they just won't drop cars in Volvo dealerships. I think they'll get a small batch of Volvo dealers and ask them if the idea interest them and they'll set a rules and requirement books. What Lotus needs are 4S centres with not only sales people but tech and aftersales services... In the US I think they could just focus on the 5 biggest markets to start with L.A, Houston, Austin, Miami, NY, SF. and then expand to smaller markets  at a high and sustain pace with 3S centers using the Volvo dealer supply chains make sense but Geely/Lotus will still want dedicated staff and showrooms, Volvo will be there to provide the backbone and lotus could actually be used as an experiment /pilot study before Lynk & Co reaches US shores.  

 

 

[au-yt]

Interesting when it comes to mixed dealerships, McLaren’s in Sydney are sold by a company the also sells RR and Aston Martin. If you walk-in your invisible, you need an appointment to talk to some one.

[C8RKH]

This is the Lotus Dealer in Edinburgh. It is there and to be fair the showroom when you get inside is lovely, just not obvious where it is...

[tim_marra]

It is a bit more obvious now though, the Suzuki bit in the RH background is now a dedicated Lotus showroom.

[Ccd]

I keep seeing announcements of hiring at Lotus, but still nothing seems to change.  The cynic in me believes this is because Lotus is hiring people for a complete re-boot of the brand.  Geely paid for the Lotus name and the engineering, not the current lineup of cars.  

I think some cars will continue to be made at Hethel only because it is part of the Lotus “mystique.”  The lion’s share will be made in China.  

As for the US, adding Lotus to select Volvo dealerships makes sense.  I think people sometimes forget that Lotus only has one US compliant car, the Evora 400, and it’s not exactly flying off dealer showrooms.  I think all current models will be allowed to continue with little further development until they are replaced by entirely new models.  

[NedaSay]

Ah... Yes that was always going to happen it was just a matter of time... I guess even though Geely is only a minority sharholder in Proton they will need DRB to clean this up as it may probably tarnish their reputation.

https://paultan.org/2019/01/18/proton-faces-rm523m-lawsuit-from-chinas-goldstar/

Edited January 21, 2019 by NedaSay

[au-yt]

Forgetting about dealerships for a bit

Has anyone else spotted this.

If you start with the VOLVO XC40 and wiki, you see that the XC40 is built on a generic platform Compact Modular Architecture (CMA)

going to that link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Modular_Architecture_platform you get this and my money is on a version of the Lynk & Co. 01 or 02

It would need another 100 HP and a few lightweight panels to get the weight down to 1500Kgs including the hybrid Volvo system

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by au-yt

[NedaSay]

Yeah the same platform which is co-owned and co-developed by Geely and Volvo has been used on all Lynk & Co and they are now also being used on Geely (brand) models. The first official model don't look bad either, and I'm not a fan of SUV coupé but the CMA platform apparently allows for quite a lot of differentiation from one car to another, here is the FY11:

The Lotus SUV is supposed to be somewhere between the Macan and the Cayenne in terms of size which is exactly what this FY11 is. It is package protected for EV and PHEV engine layout...  As standard it will come with the Geely version of the Volvo Drive-E T5 engine (2l turbo good for 240bhp)  and it's production centre is as of yet unknown but it wouldn't be surprising to see this vehicle be put together on a parallel production line to the Lotus SUV.

[NedaSay]

In my opinion one of the best component that Lotus is set to take advantage of in the near future is this: http://global.geely.com/media-center/story/secrets-of-the-heart/ 

Geely/Volvo very own almost fully automated engine plant, in Yiwu, with the capacity to build 3cyl, 4cyl and V6, which means that there's nothing really stopping them from possibly producing a V8 engine except for the times we are living in. And all these engines could be made completely bespoke to the spec needed for Lotus sport cars and other upcoming vehicles. The engineering guys in Hethel could literally run a design tweak, simulate it on computers and have the Yiwu factory build it. 

[DarrylV8]

On 14/01/2019 at 15:10, C8RKH said:

I think we've had four wheel drive cars in various guises for about 100 years, so hardly moving with the times is it? In fact, arguably the greatest Audi R8 of all time was released last last year, the RWS, and that is rear wheel drive only I believe. 

I can see why some people want Lotus to produce cars just like everyone else does. I get it. But they won't be for me.

If I want a continent crushing GT car, able to take me and the missus for two, three weeks touring around Europe in style, then I'll have a DB9/DB11 or a Bentley Continental GT please.  All the heritage and plushness you would want in a GT.

If I want a "same old" supercar, then the McLaren/911GT/AMG GT or the Huracan fit the bill - enough cupholders and vavavoom for everyone.

However, if I wanted something different. Accomplished. Slightly old school (in a good way). Solid and analog. not pretentious and slightly flying under the RADAR - then i really cannot think of anything more desirable right now than an Evora GT410/430 or an Exige 380-430.  These cars are true Lotus cars - they link in opinion to the past - wonderful but slightly flawed and a work of genius (especially when you consider the budget and manpower that Lotus had at its disposal to do the job).

If Lotus does move with the times then I can imagine my little 410Sport being a keeper for a very long time and when or if it came to change, then if Lotus cars where just like all the others than I would need to consider the Vantage, Bentley GT, AM DB11, Porsche 911 GTx etc and maybe Lotus would win, maybe it would not. However, it stayed true and evolved the car, to retain some of the characteristics around lightweight, simplicity, feel, lowish volume then I'd order an Esprit! I'm a dullard or a luddite I guess.

 

As far as I’m aware Lotus haven’t done 4WD, and yes I’m looking forward to seeing an all electric Lotus road car

totally agree about the Cup/GT4** cars being proper true Lotus cars

[Advantage]

Thing is though, and it's a comment said often, "proper true Lotus cars" have had many years to make the company financially secure yet have failed time and time again. Surely, after 70 years of bread and butter profit margins (sometimes much, much less) it's time to try something new? 

[C8RKH]

But for at least the first half of those years the sale of cars was only quite literally to fund the racing ambitions of our Colin and the Lotus team if we are being honest.  The others (apart from Porsche -so Ferarri, lamborghini et al) all merged with backers who really invested in the brand and they are reaping the benefit now. Lotus was pawned from east end to west end shops as far as I can see. 

You can make money on 5,000 cars a year, you can make a good return on 20,000 cars a year.  So yes, let's try something new but let's not throw away the heritage. As I said a few posts back, Porsche tried something new with the move to SUVs but they did not compromise their values over the sports cars which is arguably why they are still doing OK (the sports cars that is).

I'm going to hate saying this but after a recent "go" in a 911 GTS with the sports bucket seats and some other key extra's I have to say it was a nice place to be.  It did not make me feel as special as my Evora does, but it was nice and I can see why some people would want one.  If Geely takes Lotus down the same route then i bet it will lose some clients to the Porsche for a variety of reasons. 

[Ccd]

C8RKH:

You raise an issue that I have raised in the past: how does Lotus distinguish itself in the market with its new cars???  The market has spoken that light, raw, driver-focused cars do not sell in numbers.  So the new cars are likely to be less raw.  A “less raw” car is also likely to be heavier.  And keep in mind that many of the cars Lotus will compete with are not that heavy.  Yes, the NSX and R8 are relatively heavy, but a lot of Porsches are not.  And getting really light quickly gets very expensive.

So how do you distinguish yourself in a very crowded field where every base seems to be covered by someone already?  

[Nathan Pitman]

4 minutes ago, Ccd said:

You raise an issue that I have raised in the past: how does Lotus distinguish itself in the market with its new cars???  The market has spoken that light, raw, driver-focused cars do not sell in numbers.

Don't forget that the low sales volumes are not necessarily because there is no valid market for raw driver focused cars, it's just as likely that these are the result of zero investment in marketing over the years. It would have been wonderful to see how a car like the Evora would have sold with Porsche level marketing spend.

As every other manufacturer jumps on the 'electric means luxury' bandwagon I think Lotus would do well not to forget that there IS a demographic which is uninterested in tech for the sake of it... yes give us hybrid and electric sports cars... but that doesn't mean we also need a plush interior.

[Gashead1105]

Take Volvo SUV/estate/whatever. Remove some sound deadening. Add louder exhaust. Add 2 cylinders to engine. Replace badge with lotus one. Add 20k to price. Done.

Current Volvos are fab anyway, we had a brand new V60 estate for a weekend on Volvo last year when our biohazard V70 they'd just serviced dumped its gearbox oil. It was a fantastic family car - not quick but incredibly comfortable, quiet and relaxing to drive. We'll likely get a V90 next.

 

[electro_boy]

Yep Porsches are lovely and very capable cars I just don't think they are drivers cars.  I've had a go in an older 911 GT2 and my Evora NA felt more raw and special with more feedback.

The SUV(s) and the sports cars are two different sectors and need two different strategies.  The SUV has to follow the Porsche model closely but just have a bit of that "Lotus magic" to differentiated it.  It's pointless making it totally raw.  The people who appreciate a raw car aren't going to want an SUV, they know it's just not feasible to have both in one car.  With the Lotus badge the SUV will have a sense of something new and exclusivity about it and also it will have true sports car heritage behind it, not just an other large volume car with a big engine in it.  I think that will attract people towards it.

For the sports cars, if the new strategy is to copy Porsche I think it's going to be a long uphill battle.  I mean why would buy something trying to copy Porsche when you could just buy a Porsche?  I think the balance Lotus has with the Evora was spot on, more involvement and fizz than your average car and enough creature comforts.  They just need to refine and polish it up.  I haven't stepped into a 410 or 430 Evora so it possible the standard is already there?  But what they really need to do is market the car and actually let people know the car exists!  A smaller lower priced model similar to the new Alpine would also sell well.

[C8RKH]

People buy an Alpine and love it. Lotus can do tgat car and with the roof off and people will go wow, swoon, love it as long as they get to know about it and see it etc.

I think I've been miss understood re tge SUV. I expect it to be kitted out and as comfortable as an XC40/XC60/Evoque anda Porsche Mackauley Caukin!  It's the sports cars I want to keep more hard edged, analog and raw.