Future of Lotus

[NedaSay]

I think that Carr and his team are going to knock all these next generation cars out of the ballpark. I think he feels vindicated and sort of has something to prove. But I'm also super confident because his boss, Peter Horbury showed utter trust in him and his team. Horbury has done little to no wrong in his career, he's seen the designs and signed off on them, the designs are good, I think they are very good. Kershaw and his team are going to tune these chassis to perfection, that is not even a question and I think they want to one up Becker. Perceived quality of these cars is going to be second to not many because the parts bin they have access to is that good. That's how confident I am right now. Should the new sales, communication and marketing team do a good job promoting the cars they will blitz it.

And by the way, the design of the next gen cars started well before Geely signed on the sales contract. Despite the spin Popham and Co are trying to put on it, these cars have been designed and engineered under JMG at the start and vetted by Horbury and Quinfeng before Popham was brought in. They are going to be based on an evolution of a tried and true recipe Lotus is familiar with: alloy chassis, possibly with some carbon fiber reinforcement for stiffness. The body of the next gen cars will be where things change a bit, less GRP more aluminium at the bottom end and more carbon fiber at the top end. 

The engine bay will be where the change will be felt the most, as lotus take on Geely powertrains should be very interesting. Yes I'm stating that Toyota engines will not remain a  feature on Lotus cars, and Lotus will not get Mercedes Benz units either despite Geely purchasing equity in Daimler. Lotus will use 4 cylinders and V6 tuned in Hethel and made in China (not necessarily the Volvo designed engines either) Why ? Because it makes the most financial sense and it will bolster both Lotus and Geely's credentials on the engineering front.  Geely's own engines are a great baseline for Lotus, as there are no licensing issue, no homologation issue, no emission, no production issue, no design issue and no management issue with Lotus Chairman having a small team of dedicated Lotus engineers on the ground for a while. He's the man that led the development on Geely's flagship luxury sedan, the only Geely car to use a V6. Geely's powertrain are plug and play and they'll come ready to be mated with 48v batteries if needed or required.

Lotus is set to stun and I'm confident that the Type 130 is only the opening salvo, next year sport car is when things start really rolling. Geely is not kidding.

[scotty435]

We have a thread on here called what made you happy today and after reading your last post you have not only made me happy today, it’s the best post and the most positive I have had the pleasure of reading this year. Like you I can not wait for the next generation of cars and for sure motoring journalists and the general public will wonder where lotus have been hiding for the last 20years.

[Barrykearley]

Roll on the new Esprit 

[NedaSay]

latest article from the Robb Report https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/phil-popham-ceo-lotus-cars-2855744/

[NedaSay]

Ok I don't want to post this in the Evija thread, but the new sales, marketing and PR team just nailed that launch... They just nailed the level of coverage is unprecedented for the brand in the internet era.If they nail the execution as well as this launch they will have no problem selling these 130... Actually no way this car is not going to sell out... 

Now if they decide to just pull Valhalla, the same car but with an ICE propulsion system and call it the Esprit in a 0.95 scale... They will kill it... Bring on the next models guys. Kudos to Carr, Kershaw and Co.

[jonwat]

Phil Popham interview in Autocar. 

[Nathan Pitman]

1 minute ago, jonwat said:

Phil Popham interview in Autocar. 

"the range of cars we have now runs from the mid £50,000s to well over £100,000 and we see our core future models, apart from our new Hypercar, as continuing to be in the that range"

^ This!!!

[The Pits]

I really don't think we'll see a new car bearing the name Esprit anytime soon but having thought about it, what a time to re-introduce the 4 cyl turbo supercar?!

[PAR]

They are talking of a 2 seater based on the Evora platform so with more luxury in it.

id you get back to names from the past and you target the price of the A110, that sounds like a Europa to me (more than an Exige) and it could live alongside the Exige the more hard core car.

36 minutes ago, The Pits said:

I really don't think we'll see a new car bearing the name Esprit anytime soon but having thought about it, what a time to re-introduce the 4 cyl turbo supercar?!

I am pretty sure the next esprit if any will be a v8 car. I can imagine a whole range of cars fro 4cyl (Elise) to 8 (esprit) going through 6 (Evora/Exige). The v8 will obviously be the Daimler one like Aston is using.

[Arregueti]

12 hours ago, NedaSay said:

2020s version of the Elan

I know this is probably more suited for the "Future of Lotus" or its own separate thread, but given that the quote was added here, I will just ask here (Moderators, please feel free to move to a separate thread if you think it makes more sense).

If there was to be a 2020 Elan:

Do you think this will run alongside the Elise (at lease initially) or as an Elise replacement as from its launch?

Is it safe to assume that it will be mid-engined RWD as it will be based on the Evora or would it be front engined (or even FWD) as the Elan?

[Nathan Pitman]

57 minutes ago, Arregueti said:

I know this is probably more suited for the "Future of Lotus" or its own separate thread, but given that the quote was added here, I will just ask here (Moderators, please feel free to move to a separate thread if you think it makes more sense).

If there was to be a 2020 Elan:

Do you think this will run alongside the Elise (at lease initially) or as an Elise replacement as from its launch?

Is it safe to assume that it will be mid-engined RWD as it will be based on the Evora or would it be front engined (or even FWD) as the Elan?

I think the new Elan will slot in above the Evora, remember they said trickle down... that means new models top down so I think it may be quite some time before we see anything new at the 50k mark and quite likely that we won't see a direct replacement for the Elise and Exige at all.

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, Nathan Pitman said:

think the new Elan will slot in above the Evora, remember they said trickle down...

Historically the Elan has been a smaller, Elise sized car has it not? So why would the new one be pitched above the Evora? Surely that is Esprit Territory?

20 years since the last Elan so a good time to bring it back.

A new Elite/ Eclat could take the GT spot from the Evora leaving an Evora sized slit for the track focused two seater Exige.  That makes more sense to me. Then still space for an Evora GT above the Elite and an Esprit as the pinnacle (real world) sports car.

Elan - 4 cyl

Elite/Exige - V6

Evora/Esprit - V8

Just my ramblings...

 

[tim_marra]

Personally i'd rather the Elan name gets left in the past. The M100 should have been given a different name but hey ho. Same with the Europa too.

As for the Elite, hardly anyone will know about the 50's-60's car, so I can forgive them for re-using that name.

[C8RKH]

Given the current state of politics I woukd suggest Europa will not be reused.

[Nathan Pitman]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Historically the Elan has been a smaller, Elise sized car has it not? So why would the new one be pitched above the Evora? Surely that is Esprit Territory?

The 2010 Elan concept was pitched as a £75k car, so perhaps that actually slots in as an Evora replacement? Actually accounting for inflation maybe it still slots in above. Crazy thing is, those concepts STILL look current, almost ten years on.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Nathan Pitman

[Arregueti]

That was a 2010 concept so maybe they will just be taking a different direction now (I refer to its placement in the market and not to the design). At some point there was some discussion on here about a more conventionally built (ie. cheaper and in larger numbers) more accessible Lotus to compete with the Mx-5.

For me the relevant point is whether it would overlap with the Elise (as a more comfortable "tourer") or they exclude each other. Since they would actually serve slightly different purposes (or rather be directed to a different audience) it would be good to be able to choose to go for one or the other.

Given where Lotus seems to be heading I guess it is a hard case to argue in favour of keeping both running simultaneously. It is probably all day dreaming for now anyway.

[NedaSay]

 

[ramjet]

I can actually envisage the next Esprit being an electric vehicle.

I don't expect that it would be difficult for Lotus to do.

[Sport220]

https://www.autonews.com/china/lotus-mulls-second-uk-plant-could-build-suv-china

 

Quote

Lotus mulls second U.K. plant, could build SUV in China

LONDON -- Lotus is preparing for an expansion under Chinese owner Geely Automobile Holdings that could see the British automaker open a second U.K. factory and target new markets by building higher-volume models in China.

Lotus plans to triple output at its base in Hethel, eastern England, to slightly more than 5,000 cars a year and could reach 10,000 if it adopts a double-shift work pattern, the CEO said in an interview. Further increases might require a new plant elsewhere in the country, he said.

Popham described Lotus as a "70-year-old startup" after the launch of its first new car in 10 years. The 1.7 million-pound ($2.1 million) all-electric Evija will be followed by a solely combustion-engine model to be revealed in 2020, after which all subsequent cars will have electric variants, possibly skipping a hybrid option which the CEO said can add too much weight for a sports design.

Lotus's 10-year growth plan includes an expansion into new segments, Popham said after unveiling the Evija at an event in London where it displayed past models including the 1960s-vintage Elan and the wedge-shaped Esprit.

That could include anything from an SUV through a crossover model to a sedan. The company made 1,632 cars in 2018 and expects to top 1,700 this year.

 

Geely Chief Technical Officer Feng Qingfeng, also CEO of Group Lotus following a takeover by the Zhejiang-based automaker in 2017, told journalists that while Lotus's core sports lineup would continue to be built in the UK, higher-volume models could be made in China.

"The manufacturing location depends on the local advantage," he said. "The UK is good at making hand-made cars, so sports and hypercars. In China we may have more advantage in infrastructure for mass-production cars."

 

Popham said there is scope for Lotus to work with other Geely companies, which include Sweden's Volvo Cars and Proton of Malaysia, the U.K. brand's former owner, though there is no question of re-badging other platforms with the name, and neither would the same model be made in multiple locations.

Speaking to Bloomberg, the CEO said Lotus has secured the first few orders for the Evija in recent weeks and expects to sell the "halo" model, which will have a production run of just 130 cars, to buyers from around the world.

Despite the Evija's hypercar credentials, which will see it vie with the Pininfarina Battista and Rimac Automobili's Concept One, as well as top-end conventional models from automakers such as Ferrari and Lamborghini, Popham said future cars will remain within Lotus's established 50,000 pounds to 150,000 pounds ($62,000 to $187,000) price bracket, though there is some scope for moving upscale.

Feng ruled out an early return to Formula One, where Lotus was once a dominant force, while saying he expects the company to do more in motor sport generally.

Lotus has no major concerns about Brexit, Popham said. A U.K. split from the European Union on Oct. 31 now seems likely given commitments from the candidates to succeed Theresa May as prime minister, he said.

The company has stockpiled parts in case of a no-deal exit, but the CEO said any impact would be limited and predicted that new trade accords would be rapidly concluded.

"We are a nation that's historically one of the biggest traders in the global market, always have been, always will be, so it's matter of time before a new deal is done with Europe and other trading partners around the world," he said.

 

[NedaSay]

The next five years are going to be busy. With 2 launches next year( Evija  and new sport car Exige?), and then by my count 1 launch in 2021 (Elise)  and at least 1(SUV) if not 2 (Evora replacement or Esprit successor) in 2022.

By that point Lotus will have at two factories (Hethel and Wuhan) and the workforce will be back to level unseen since the early DB, I actually think that we are already almost there in terms of staffing andI have no data yet on how many people are working under Quinfeng  at the new Shanghai hub But my guess would be no less than a hundred.

Oh and because it would technically make sense to urecoup some of  the R&D cost  from the new CF tub, they could do a limited run Evija roadster, once the order book of the Evija is closed.

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, Neda Say said:

Oh and because it would technically make sense to urecoup some of  the R&D cost  from the new CF tub,

I suspect that all future Lotuses will use the same cf tub, or a variation of it. 

A la McLaren. 

[NedaSay]

I actually doubt that, for the sake of cost and repairability, carbon fibe is still a bit of a nightmare to mass produce... On an Elise or an Exige it makes very little sense especially when the Elige aluminium chassis is on par with a 4C chassis in terms of weight and rigidity but is significantly cheaper to put together.

I do think that the next gen chassis will include CF  but will remain alloy based, however I think it will have a lot more cast alloy parts compared to the VVA architecture and will integrate the Volvo SPA carbon core to provide an even more rigid frame.

As for Carbon fiber chassis I do think we'll see it on other cars. I actually would not discount Lotus pulling a Valhalla on this one ; using pretty much an Evija core chassis but fitting a conventional engine in it and a slighly different dress... and name it... I don't know Esprit ... Maybe.

 

[Nathan Pitman]

I thought that Lotus had already come out and stated that they will be building the next affordable sports car on the Evora chassis, or a derivative of it...

[Andyww]

I would think Lotus would be having the Evija tubs made by hand by one of the several carbon-fibre fabricators in Italy.

Mclaren recently brought CF tub manufacture in house but it cost them a fortune. 

On the other hand Lotus has no in-house chassis capability AFAIK, maybe with Geelys deep pockets they might be able to bring alloy or even CF in house.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes it’s odd how carbon fibre tubs still seem to be regarded as a black art. I visited one of those several fabricators in Italy about 20 years ago and they had a Ferrari F50 tub on show gathering dust in Reception. It had been there since they made it in about 1995, so nigh on 25 years ago! For comparison, 25 years prior to that you could still buy a new Morris Minor! That’s progress!