Future of Lotus

[Nathan Pitman]

For mass production you would imagine that at some point 3d printing with continuous carbon fibre will become a viable solution, until then I can't see someone like Lotus using a CF tub across their entire range unless base models are going to start at 3 or 4 times the current entry price.

[Andyww]

When the Alfa 4C came out everyone was asking how they did the CF tub car for that price. The answer of course was that they didnt. The 4C cost a lot more to produce than the selling price.

The 4C would be a nightmare for any repair so much of the panelling is permanently bonded to the tub.

[NedaSay]

Lotus may inject a lot more carbon fiber into its sport cars to make them lighter and stiffer and lower the centre of gravity (windshield frames/ A pilars , roof...) but even if they don't the cars are top notch on these two points already. 

The good news is that Lotus overlord has racked in $49billion in revenues last year, they won't have an issue supporting Lotus for a little while, especially with Volvo now being totally self-sustainable,  and $10b share in Daimler-Benz, Geely can focus on bringing Lynk & Co to Europe and North America, all the while Geometry will push EV versions of Geely cars in China, and in the Asean  bringing Proton back from the brink. Geely can do it all very cost effectively. With Lotus as its crown jewel, avant garde division, two  European luxury brands (Volvo and Polestar) 3 Chinese premium mass market brands (Geely, Lynk&Co, Geometry) and Proton positioned as entry level, plus the acquisition of Smart... Geely has built himself up à la VW Group, they are not quite there in size, but they are as big as FCA right now and a lot more cohesive in their market approach. Lotus is in good hands i'd say.  

 

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70016185.html

[electro_boy]

I think we are a little way off to see carbon tubs in the entry level cars.  The construction of carbon fibre components still requires many man hours and is costly and takes a lot of time.  So I don't see this being economically viable for the entry or mid level cars.  But higher end stuff that sells in lower volumes but higher margins yes I can see it being used.

I think what we may see in the low to mid entry cars of the future is different manufacturing techniques to get better weight to strength ratio out the chassis reducing weight further or add in more creature comforts that the mass market wants while keeping the weight similar to todays cars.  We know there is investment money available for new factories and construction machines etc ... so this may open the doors for new construction methods that previously Lotus had discounted due to the investment required for new tooling etc ...  Also there will be economies of scale in play if Lotus can start to sell more cars so some of these expensive techniques become cheeper or the R&D cost can be spread over more units to bring down the RRP.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation,  the new techniques to make your cars better requires lots of investment but you can't generate that revenue because your cars need to be better for the mass market.  But that cycle has been broken by Geely and their deep pockets.

[nerobi]

An interesting article; about 911 though.

Quote

I used to subscribe to the belief that so long as the success of the Cayenne and its ilk funded the development of great 911s and enabled Porsche to race at Le Mans, it was all good. That theory is still sound, but now that those outliers have become Porsche’s enormously lucrative bread and butter, the customer profile has morphed to such a degree that the 911 now has to look, feel, behave and be equipped in a way that feels familiar to customers who might have owned Cayennes, but have never owned a 911. Much as it pains me to say so, the 911s that I have known and loved are now some kind of genetic throwback; the notion of such a quirky, challenging, individual and unapologetically straightforward sports car sitting as comfortably in Porsche’s 2019 model range as a square peg in a round hole.

https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22926/it-pains-me-to-say-so-but-porsche-911s-that-i-have-known-and-loved-are-now-some-kind

[au-yt]

future lotus engines

It used a 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbo engine modified to produce 376kW (504.hp} and drive through a six-speed sequential transmission.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/chinese-cars-shock-new-world-record/news-story/dad470786640d37da361c86992abf809

[Bee]

Do you know, that's a decent-looking car too! If Kia's Stinger can achieve a few sales over here, I can see a car like that generating quite a few more - a cut-price RS3 competitor? I've wondered what Lync & Co cars are like since hearing they were 'coming soon' but having something like that in the range, and with an awareness that it shares architecture with Volvo and has development from Polestar … well, they might be off to a good start!

 

As for the engine, next gen Elise/Exige/Evora/Elan anyone? Surely that's a perfect powerplant for any of them!

[C8RKH]

I've just bought a Volvo S90 as my business mileage is increasing. The S90 is made in China and gets transported from the factory, overland by covered train wagons, the several thousand miles to Volvo europe.

The interior and exterior fit and finish is superb. It has so much tech it is unbelievable - most I will never use. AWD. 8 speed auto with flappies. 12.5" central screen and full digital screen for the instruments etc. It even has cup holfers for fooks sake!  

Ride is superb, no turbo lag with the powerpulse tech (it injects air under pressure to pre-spin the turbo!) And uber quiet.

Geeley have taken the best of Volvo's DNA and enhanced it to a whole new level.

If they do the same with Lotus and the Lotus DNA then wowser. We could be in for a real treat!

[electro_boy]

From what I understand that Lynk&Co car developed by Cyan / Polestar racing is a one off concept at the moment with very serious modifications compared to the standard road car, its not just a "GTI" version.  Fingers crossed there is a production version not too different to this concept! 

Also it would be interesting to see how much power they could reliably get out of the engine?  Mercedes are getting ~400hp out of their new 2.0l turbo engine so this a quite a step up at ~500hp.  But even if it is detuned a little for better reliability and longevity there is still some headroom to produce some good power!

Good work Geely group, keep it up, look forward to seeing what the future brings... 

[Vulcan Grey]

On 24/07/2019 at 03:48, electro_boy said:

I think we are a little way off to see carbon tubs in the entry level cars.  The construction of carbon fibre components still requires many man hours and is costly and takes a lot of time.  So I don't see this being economically viable for the entry or mid level cars.  But higher end stuff that sells in lower volumes but higher margins yes I can see it being used.

I think what we may see in the low to mid entry cars of the future is different manufacturing techniques to get better weight to strength ratio out the chassis reducing weight further or add in more creature comforts that the mass market wants while keeping the weight similar to todays cars.  We know there is investment money available for new factories and construction machines etc ... so this may open the doors for new construction methods that previously Lotus had discounted due to the investment required for new tooling etc ...  Also there will be economies of scale in play if Lotus can start to sell more cars so some of these expensive techniques become cheeper or the R&D cost can be spread over more units to bring down the RRP.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation,  the new techniques to make your cars better requires lots of investment but you can't generate that revenue because your cars need to be better for the mass market.  But that cycle has been broken by Geely and their deep pockets.

The McLaren F1 was 3000hours for the carbon chassis

The McMerc SLR was ~130hrs if I recall correctly

The McLaren Mp4-12c was down to 4 hours.

[au-yt]

The use of carbon in any stressed structure doesn't have a life which is interesting, however there is a structural monitoring being done but the US UK Australian and affiliated and other countries military to determine a Life for their aircraft. However that data will never be made public or even to Aircraft Manufacturers. And I should also mention the ATSB's guidance on treating carbon the same as Asbestos when it burns..

Pressed Ally units are the way to go ala the new Alpine A110

[electro_boy]

@Vulcan Grey wowzers that's a great stat! Didn't realise the latest Macca tub was down to just 4 hours for manufacture! Well I'm guessing thats the man hours not including time in the oven baking!

[Loquacious Lew]

On 03/09/2019 at 22:02, au-yt said:

The use of carbon in any stressed structure doesn't have a life which is interesting, however there is a structural monitoring being done but the US UK Australian and affiliated and other countries military to determine a Life for their aircraft. However that data will never be made public or even to Aircraft Manufacturers. And I should also mention the ATSB's guidance on treating carbon the same as Asbestos when it burns..

Pressed Ally units are the way to go ala the new Alpine A110

Agreed.  

I think  more benefits accrue to  alloy road cars when all the hazards and costs of ownership are counted.  It's a benefit to committed owners when cars can be repaired economically.  Carbon fiber has strength to weight going for it but past that, I don't think I'm ready for the downsides.   I don't want to require a factory repair for a minor shunt.  I think CF is fabulous and pretty in its place  but I worry about repair and durability since I tend to keep my cars longer than most.  

[jonwat]

Lotus to strengthen dealer network in the east,

[NedaSay]

Uh can anyone tell me when Lotus Cars North America entered its new HQ in Plymouth. Last I checked Cars and Engineering shared a common roof  in Ann Arbor. I just learned that Car sales are now occupying a new building in Michigan.

[Likuid]

I didn't know this either. I know they moved into the Ann Arbor engineering facility years ago. My guess is probably not enough room there to house both their NA engineering and Lotus Cars staff long term. Maybe once they got some Geely money they moved.

[NedaSay]

I guess so too... Maybe with a few new hires at both cars and engineering  and some careful allocation of funds, Lotus will be able to justify getting a purpose built or overhauled facility that will allow them to bring eveybody under one roof again. Maybe on one of Geely properties in North America, the new USA HQ is in a very non descript single floor building in an industrial park for the time being. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by NedaSay

[Suddabym]

On 16/09/2019 at 18:13, NedaSay said:

Uh can anyone tell me when Lotus Cars North America entered its new HQ in Plymouth.

Plymouth?

Blimey, that's a long way from America. You'd think Exeter would make more sense, especially for getting on the M5.

[mayevora]

5 minutes ago, Suddabym said:

 You'd think Exeter would make more sense, especially for getting on the M5.

Centre of the U.K. and just 5 miles from me.

I’ll second this motion 😁👍 Result 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Stolen stand-up gag:

”so, the Pilgrim Fathers set sail from Plymouth, crossed thousands of miles of inhospitable ocean and ended up in... Plymouth! What were the chances of that?”

[jonwat]

Lotus CEO outlines ambitious production expansion plan, electric future

[NedaSay]

Popham has a way to recycle his interview talking points...

[The Pits]

Most significant recent statement is that the next new sports car will be shown before the end of next year. 

'Shown' doesn't sound like 'launched' to me which could well happen in 2021. Meanwhile the radio silence around the current range continues.

Current management have a mountain to climb before then. I hope we see some big strides taken to address some of the negative perceptions soon.

[KAS-118]

20 hours ago, jonwat said:

Lotus CEO outlines ambitious production expansion plan, electric future

But in the meantime Asia is looking into hydrogen https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/explainer-why-asias-biggest-economies-are-backing-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-1980330

[scotty435]

We complain when there is a new or shall I say a limited edition model every month and now we do the same because there is not been nothing new out doors for what would be seems a life time to some. We have had what can only be described as stunning Halo car yes well out the price range for most of us, but it’s there for a different reason. In my opinion lotus needs a ground breaking sports car and if it’s takes a bit longer then we all should like, so be it, the company as never had such a secure footing and a bit of patience is what is needed to tick all the boxes to achieve the class leading sports car that I am sure they will deliver.