Future of Lotus

[The Pits]

I never complained about the rapid launches of lighter, faster model updates, they were exciting days and I ended up buying one of the cars made during that time. Exige Cup 430 was unnecessarily rushed out before Cup 380s were sold, but what a great car.

We have been hearing about the next new car coming 'next year' for a long time now. Only now do we hear that the first one being will be 'shown' before the end of next year. I'm actually trying to manage expectations by drawing people's attention to this. Some people are waiting to see the new more 'affordable' Lotus car before buying something else so I hope it helps for them to know that they are unlikely to see customer cars until well into 2021. Hopefully Lotus are planning to under promise and over deliver. It would be a good strategy for them.

It must be very tough for dealers out there at the moment. Talk of new cars can only make stock much harder to shift, particularly without any support for the current range of brilliant drivers cars, the like of which we won't see again. Long delays, however good the final car turns out to be, will not be welcome.

[NedaSay]

11 hours ago, The Pits said:

Most significant recent statement is that the next new sports car will be shown before the end of next year. 

'Shown' doesn't sound like 'launched' to me which could well happen in 2021. Meanwhile the radio silence around the current range continues.

Current management have a mountain to climb before then. I hope we see some big strides taken to address some of the negative perceptions soon.

Delaying the launch of the new sport car to 2021 would be underwhelming, especially considered it is a VVA car. they have the chassis core ready, even if they use more castings instead extrusions it should not take them long to do the engineering on that, then Geely Group components should not take that long to integrate, they are using true and tested componentry, The car will not have Evija crazy level of bespoke parts... The powertrain can either be a 6 cyl Toyota or a 6 cyl from Geely or a 4 cyl from Geely/Volvo, all are transverse  compatible all are mated to gearboxes cases Lotus is used to .  The delay cannot be linked either to the factory retooling, as this car will be built on the current assembly line and  not the new assembly hall that will be all Evija for its first year. a soft unveil in Geneva or more likely Beijing later next year before a roll out early in 2021 is the maximum some people will wait and in order to get that they better give Evora another quick raft of minor upgrades IMO. 

[tim_marra]

Blimey fella, during the lunch break they could find a solution to world famine and climate change?

Not Brexit though, as that would be too far fetched?

[jonwat]

Lotus expects to outgrow Hethel

[The Pits]

I’m sure it’s the media making a big deal of a throwaway remark but it’s a pointless thing to claim at this stage. Can’t see how it could benefit Lotus to do so.

I’d rather hear about a renewed interest in Motorsport, some GT racing ambition or  positive plans for the current range and how Lotus are going to manage the transition period. I guess if they can sell a few Evijas none of that will matter much from a financial point of view but the brand building (and repair work) should be well under way by now.

[Mark030358]

17 hours ago, The Pits said:

for the current range of brilliant drivers cars, the like of which we won't see again...

For me, this is 1001% on the money. You wont see the type of cars we have now, particularly the visceral V6 Exige. The only thing that would make me sell my 380 is a really really special final Exige. But lets wait and see.

And funnily enough was at a dealers today and one guy told me there is a two day sales conference coming up, and that future sales targets for new models is off the scale. For instance he said that say lotus sell 1550 units/year, they are planning to sell that many within the confines of their dealership. So to me that means that the newer cars cannot be into 6 figure, probably less than half of that for mass market appeal and sales.

Would I but an electric Lotus, NOT in a million years.... but maybe my Mrs. Might like the SUV instead of her Audi... 🤔🤔🤔

cheers

Mark

[NedaSay]

2 hours ago, tim_marra said:

Blimey fella, during the lunch break they could find a solution to world famine and climate change?

Not Brexit though, as that would be too far fetched?

Uh They don't need to solve world issues... They need to finish developing a model that has been in the pipeline ever since the previous CEO was in charge. JMG showed up at the gate in 2014, this car started its development in late 2015 or early 2016, spec got frozen way before the current management showed up...  It was one of the 3 options JMG had planned. Geely called the shot on which model they should come out with first under Quinfeng. But by that time they knew exactly what  the car required, chassis wise and engine wise. I  insist It is a VVA platform car, essentially an Evora Plus or Minus depending on what design they went with. The only thing they have had to sort out at is the integration of the loom and parts bin. I believe JMG preempted the sale to Geely by acquiring a few Volvos to get the powertrain template. This is not rocket science this is project planning. The fact that Evija got delayed consciously by a year to get a thorough propulsion system redesign is fine, but this time we are talking good old internal combustion engine. if they decided to go with Geely V6 and not Volvo 4 Cyl lead time would not be longer as the Geely own V6 is a VVTi clone of Mitsubishi own V6 which is GR-FE doppelgänger, If anything having Quinfeng in charge of this one would accelerate development as his team oversaw said engine development in the first place. I get that they want to have a winner right out of the gate

[tim_marra]

No worries fella. I love the Lotus brand and if well wishing built cars and made money they would be in clover on my wishes alone 

[au-yt]

On 21/09/2019 at 02:33, NedaSay said:

 Geely own V6 is a VVTi clone of Mitsubishi own V6 which is GR-FE doppelgänger,

Now I know what my local dealer said the current cars are the ones to keep, the Mitsubishi V6 we got here in Australia was a disaster

[NedaSay]

^^ Keep in mind that V6 would be revamped by Lotus and has undergone a Geely-Volvo redesign and did spend some time in Trollhattan. This engine has never been tested by europeans motor journalists but the journos from the middle east have and the emirates in particular have been positive about the level of refinement the cars equipped with said engine.  Now if ee consider that Geely saw fit to make this engine EU6 compliant, it makes for a good base for Lotus to fiddle with it... Forged internals, turbocharging, new  ECU map could all be redesigned and reengineered in Hethel, before the changes could get implemented back at the Chinese factory.  A bespoke engine with a trusted and somewhat mass produced V6 base... I say somewhat because this engine is only available on the Boyue and Borui (aka Emgrand GT and X7 in china). And it seems Geely is starting to phase out its "oldest" engine platform in favour of the Drive-E engine,  which as we know has been the workhorse of the Volvo range, so maybe Lotus sticks to boosted to 4 cyl but for some reason I can't explain, I don't quite think so...

 

Now I have a question for our UK based contributors and more specifically our Norfolk dwellers. Can anybody share any info about where they are at with the renovations of Hethel? Not a single pic has leaked over than on a few videos showing the old control tower not looking its best... 

[au-yt]

That could be an interesting idea, however I’m not a big fan of anything made in China.. especially cars and I suspect the market may also not really like the idea. It took a very long to before people dropped the Jap crap comment.

[NedaSay]

10 hours ago, au-yt said:

That could be an interesting idea, however I’m not a big fan of anything made in China.. especially cars and I suspect the market may also not really like the idea. It took a very long to before people dropped the Jap crap comment.

Well Volvo seems to be doing fine with cars made in China. Apple is having no problem whatsoever to shift pricey phones and laptop made in China also your tv, and white goods and many parts bin stuff  and other major component on your car is probably coming from China... So what the heck are you on about? Design and engineered in Hethel that is the only thing Lotus needs to write on the parts coming from china, then they just need to Q.A the stuff to no end... I am not worried about that because Volvo already does it, and last time I checked Volvo along with RollsRoyce have the most feared QA inspectors in the sandbox.

[chipp]

I thought they had obtained permission to demolish the tower after all.

They have also just completed some additional parking areas with landscaping and screening along with improved surface water drainage. 

 

chipp

 

@NedaSay pm sent

Edited October 2, 2019 by chipp
in addition.

[au-yt]

4 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Well Volvo seems to be doing fine with cars made in China. Apple is having no problem whatsoever to shift pricey phones and laptop made in China also your tv, and white goods and many parts bin stuff  and other major component on your car is probably coming from China... So what the heck are you on about? Design and engineered in Hethel that is the only thing Lotus needs to write on the parts coming from china, then they just need to Q.A the stuff to no end... I am not worried about that because Volvo already does it, and last time I checked Volvo along with RollsRoyce have the most feared QA inspectors in the sandbox.

I had a holiday touring a good part of China last year and the Volvos"s built there are as I understand for the domestic market

I have a friend who  manufactures there and a very good friend who was the head of HR for a  multinational company, yes the QA is the most important part BUT you cannot take your eye of the game for one second and I mean that literally. Companies think they can train locals to be QA people, FAIL. corruption is part of the job description. Sorry it will take me a long to to have the same confidence in Chinese built products as I do with the Japanese.

 

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, au-yt said:

I had a holiday touring a good part of China last year and the Volvos"s built there are as I understand for the domestic market

Sorry not true. I recently bought an S90 as a company mileage cruiser and the build quality so far is outstanding. My Dealer specifically told me that the S90s are built in China then transported by train to Europe. No squeaks. No rattles. Very soft leather. Very impressed.

As for the Jap Crap comment well people still roll out Lots of trouble.... After 50 years!

China may have its problems with local QC, corruption, et al. But Western manufacturers are little better with their so called premium product brands, including Audi, BMW, VW, Land Rover and in some cases Mercedes, constantly languishing at or near the bottom quartile for reliability.

Oh, sorry, yes, corruption you say. Hmm, so you've not heard about dieselgate, the lies and manipulation re emmissions and mpg and the subsequent fines to many so called premium brands, mostly German?

But hey, let's just bash the Chinese and rely on good old prejudice. After all it was not many years ago we laughed at anyone who bought a Kia or heaven forbid a Hyundai but the Koreans have rapidly progressed in design AND quality. A look and drive of their range now and their cars are the equal, better for reliability, of their Western counterparts for the money. Take away the snobbery around the so called Premium badge of VW, BMW etc and you really do need to question again the whole VFM v spec v quality thing.  Granted the BMW 5+.and other "exec spec" cars are very good but look at the price premium. Oh, and they do break down. My friends 6 month old M5, a near £100k car, has just been diagnosed with injector failures to multiple cylinders. The warranty claim is eye watering.

I've said it before on here. If my S90, designed and built under Chinese Volvo ownership is anything to go by, then Lotus will be producing some very special cars in the near future (not that the current cars are not special). My view is that the future for Lotus is bright. The future is Orange. Signature Orange, of course!

[NedaSay]

9 hours ago, au-yt said:

I had a holiday touring a good part of China last year and the Volvos"s built there are as I understand for the domestic market

I have a friend who  manufactures there and a very good friend who was the head of HR for a  multinational company, yes the QA is the most important part BUT you cannot take your eye of the game for one second and I mean that literally. Companies think they can train locals to be QA people, FAIL. corruption is part of the job description. Sorry it will take me a long to to have the same confidence in Chinese built products as I do with the Japanese.

 

It will take you long to trust Chinese or Japanese built product?! Wow... Where are your cellphone and computer made? Murica?

 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

You will find the children making those do as they are told - hence the better quality 👍

[au-yt]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Sorry not true. I recently bought an S90 as a company mileage cruiser and the build quality so far is outstanding. My Dealer specifically told me that the S90s are built in China then transported by train to Europe. No squeaks. No rattles. Very soft leather. Very impressed.

As for the Jap Crap comment well people still roll out Lots of trouble.... After 50 years!

China may have its problems with local QC, corruption, et al. But Western manufacturers are little better with their so called premium product brands, including Audi, BMW, VW, Land Rover and in some cases Mercedes, constantly languishing at or near the bottom quartile for reliability.

Oh, sorry, yes, corruption you say. Hmm, so you've not heard about dieselgate, the lies and manipulation re emmissions and mpg and the subsequent fines to many so called premium brands, mostly German?

But hey, let's just bash the Chinese and rely on good old prejudice. After all it was not many years ago we laughed at anyone who bought a Kia or heaven forbid a Hyundai but the Koreans have rapidly progressed in design AND quality. A look and drive of their range now and their cars are the equal, better for reliability, of their Western counterparts for the money. Take away the snobbery around the so called Premium badge of VW, BMW etc and you really do need to question again the whole VFM v spec v quality thing.  Granted the BMW 5+.and other "exec spec" cars are very good but look at the price premium. Oh, and they do break down. My friends 6 month old M5, a near £100k car, has just been diagnosed with injector failures to multiple cylinders. The warranty claim is eye watering.

I've said it before on here. If my S90, designed and built under Chinese Volvo ownership is anything to go by, then Lotus will be producing some very special cars in the near future (not that the current cars are not special). My view is that the future for Lotus is bright. The future is Orange. Signature Orange, of course!

I'm not bashing the Chinese on prejudice, just first experience and knowledge. The Chinese don't work on contracts its who know and bribe you need to have the whole local communities hierarchy bribed and on board including the local Cops.

Check the Vin number of the S90, it will tell where it was made and it will be in Sweden  . BM X5s are manufactured in South Carolina, Mercs are made in the US and south Africa ..Honda Thailand and the US etc and as for AUDI wont touch one.

Toyota and Lexus regularly win the US owners reliability awards.

I have a pre Geely XC60 and its been rock solid and the service has been great including a factory recall for a belt idler

The Koreans have come a long way and are now we respected here. Great Wall now Havel are Chinese and are cheap for a reason and second hand forget it.

Sorry its not just my generation here in Australia that will say the same thing, Chinese products leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Simon Bateman]

My Dad had a Toyota Corolla when I was a kid......probably about 45 years ago now.

He got fed up with his Austin Maxi being an absolute pile of crap and decided to go for a Jap wagon.

I still remember one of our neighbours coming up to him and saying that he should be ashamed of himself for not buying British.  This would be the same neighbour that my dad would frequently help to bump start his Morris Marina!!

It's a changing world and I suspect that we will view Chinese cars very differently within the next 10 years.

 

[Bibs]

42 minutes ago, au-yt said:

The Chinese don't work on contracts its who know and bribe you need to have the whole local communities hierarchy bribed and on board including the local Cops.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7528217/13-5-tonnes-gold-worth-520-million-corrupt-Chinese-officials-home.html

 

[C8RKH]

So @au-yt, @Bibs, are you pointing out that only the Chinese are corrupt?

Was not that long ago we had Rolls Royce, BAE etc in the dock for dodgy deals in the middle east. A region notorious for the use of "agents" with many palms that need greasing etc.

Don't get me started on UK companies and dodgy deals in South America.

The global mining industry is shadey. Australians should know all about that.

The Chinese may be masters, but they learnt from others too.

Plenty of UK public figures done for corruption. Maybe not on the scale of that one Chinese guy in modern times, but if you go back to the Empire similar business practices and fortunes were made not necessarily legally, and on the broken backs of children and the poor. China is just catching up.

Oh how quickly we forget or forgive our own history, even when it was not that long ago. DeLorean anyone? 😜

As for Chinese stuff being cheap shit. No shit Sherlock. People buy cheap, knowing it's cheap. Then butch and whine re the quality. FFS, really? Don't buy cheap in the first place unless you're happy buying twice, thrice etc...

Yes some Merc cars are built in the USA. The general view was/is that they  were crap compared to the others. They've got better, but still not 100%.

Good job our houses are not made out of glass.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, au-yt said:

Check the Vin number of the S90, it will tell where it was made and it will be in Sweden

I take it Volvo have no idea where they build their cars then? I'll check my VIN and you can check your facts. Ok?

https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/208624/first-china-built-volvo-s90-sedans-arrive-in-europe-via-ground-breaking-rail-link4

[electro_boy]

Just to add my 2p to the "made in China" = bad quality discussion.

China has invested very heavily into their manufacturing industry over many decades and has some of, if not the worlds most advanced manufacturing technology and has a large skilled labour force too.  Chinese companies can make pretty much anything you want to to what ever budget you choose.   They can make some really crappy cheep tat and they can make some very high end beautifully constructed items too.  The high end tech can be used to reduce costs or increase quality.  It totally depends on what they were asked to produced.  There are many brands from different industries that show you can have high end products made in China with good reliability.  There are also a few companies that show you can have the devices made in factories that promote ethical values and a good working environment for its staff.  Yes these things may not be instilled into the Chinese culture but if you ask for it, pay for it and work with them they will do it!  So next time you buy something and its not made to the standard you want don't blame the factory it was made in! 

[TBD]

Could we amend that, regardless of brand, all these China-bashing posts were most likely written on PC's or mobile phones built in China! Yes, that includes iPhones!

[C8RKH]

And by people who mostly drive and applaud German quality built cars whilst steadfastly refusing to acknowledge that said cars often languish in the bottom quartile for reliability, and quietly change the subject when you mention their part in Dieselgate and other illegal practices.

It seems that Brand snobbery, clever marketing and perception is the key, not reality. Or is it just the old east v west rivalry? Either, I agree with you that it is time to move on.

 

 

[Barrykearley]

We all know the Chinese preside over making the best cars