Delco-Moraine ABS Deletion

[Chillidoggy]

I'm doing a bit more digging reference VW servos, but don't hold your breath.

[Barrykearley]

That’s a bit like saying “how do you keep an idiot in suspense”

pull your finger out

[davevr6car]

The existing bracket can be adapted and if required and you can get a universal push rod from Demon Tweaks which can be cut to length and attach the original clevis to......just make sure you get the right thread pattern 

[swindon_alan]

As advised by Ian, there's an additional item on the interim replacement parts list in lieu of getting the upgrade in place. Lotus P/N 1CH1TMESELF

[Chillidoggy]

I did get some P/N info earlier today, but am awaiting more dimensional info on new units in order to be able to make any real progress. I'm keen to use new master cylinder and servos that are likely to be available for the foreseeable future. If I get it right, and there are a number of people interested, we could have a group buy for a servo bracket, or whatever else is required. But I want to try to keep mods down to a minimum, and use available parts where possible.

Of course, I might be barking up the wrong tree completely, or just completely barking, but we'll see.

[Barrykearley]

I will want a set no matter which car I keep

[swindon_alan]

Your spare V8 kit is going to do the job, along with Ian's vac parts list mate. Nearly there on this one.

Have you got the servo mounting bracket btw?

[Barrykearley]

No just the servo I think - and the peddle box

[Chillidoggy]

Quick update from Margate Exotics -

I’ve narrowed the search for servo, reservoir and master cylinder, which should arrive here next week. Original Esprit pedal/servo brackets will definitely not fit, so a new bracket will have to be designed and fabricated, along with a new actuating rod from the pedal box to the servo. I’m not sure if the relay tree will have to be modified to provide clearance as yet, though.

On the vacuum front, after much searching for fittings, I’ve decided to buy a manifold, as I want to connect a vacuum gauge for setting up, the vacuum pump switch, and a take-off for the heater valves. The vacuum pump will lay down in the recess, with a relay and an ignition-fed live. The entire assembly should fit neatly in the recess, so no-one will ever know its been modified. I will also take a vacuum feed from the engine inlet manifold, which will be Tee’d in to the vacuum line from the pump.

True, it’s early days, and I haven’t yet disturbed any of the Delco, but things are progressing, even if it’s all in my head. If it all works out, then the conversion components will all be available new, at a sensible price, and for common vehicles, so less worries about the availability of spares in the future.

 

 

Conversions will be available from Watford Exotics PLC........................................

[Barrykearley]

You sure you don’t want to keep the old system - it’s fantastic you know

[Chillidoggy]

So I'm led to believe.

[Sparky]

Nothing short of an exorcism will get rid of it.

[Chillidoggy]

On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 17:44, Sparky said:

Nothing short of an exorcism will get rid of it.

Or an impromptu meeting with a roundabout?

[Giniw]

Just a thought... As the (front) Brembo calipers were used on the Peugeot 406 coupé (if I am not wrong), shouldn't we take a look at what was the rest of the system? (I have no idea if it was any good but I suspect it probably was?)

EDIT : I had a (very) quick look and there is not much apparently...

[swindon_alan]

Hmmmm, that was an interesting lead for a bit as the 406 V6 master cylinder was used on the '96/'97 V8. As the Brembo calipers are the same for the June '94 on S4, the S4s and the V8 then perhaps they cross ref. Unfortunately not, the Peugeot version has different mountings...

...to the Lotus version and the piston casting shape is different as well:

 

I have checked the 406 rear discs as well and they are different, no handbrake mechanism. I will have another dig around the forums and see if there is anything else on Brembo fronts anyway. Forward and on...

 

[swindon_alan]

Can't find much at all on Brembos, apart from this:

Will have another dig around them...

[MikieP]

Hi guys, Been a while. Just some note on my ABS failures I have been having over the past half year. Ordered the pressure switch from Steve down under. Fearing the worst, had a good friend come by finally after the weather rose above 32F today and we, mostly he, removed and replaced the accumulator and pressure switch and the installed the modified switch from Steve, SURPRISINGLY, it was quite simple to do compared to my fears about 2700 psi, brake fluid roaming around the compartment, fitment, etc. Not clear if we did it correctly but so far, no leaks found, the pump runs after the complete depressurization, the ABS light actually turned off when the car is started, pump runs after two pumps of the pedal. Too cold and rainy to go out for a long test drive as yet, perhaps Wednesday, to see if the pump runs less often, but so far, the pump runs and shuts off after about 1-2 seconds. Thought it would run after 4-6 pumps but will know more after Wednesday if the weather calms down. Certainly cheaper and simpler than replacing the entire system so far. We elected to NOT bleed the brake system at this point due to temperature and confined space of my garage, but will attempt that in the coming week or so on his shop lift. Pedal has always stayed up off the floor even when braking disappeared... Cheers for now!

 

Mikie

[ramjet]

So do the MOT rules in the UK not care if the braking system is the original or just that the braking system that is in the car works when tested?

[MikieP]

UK MOT rules do not apply in the US but all they care about here is that the brakes perform on the floor braking scales...

[ramjet]

I was actually aiming the question @swindon_alan, but having seen another US citizens car on here, it doesn't look like the police care much in the US of how a car appears.

[MikieP]

Gotcha.

There is one Esprit in this entire state, as far as I know. Mine. Doubt they would even know what they are looking at or for, I am afraid. They do test brake load on each wheel during active braking, but that is as far as it goes in Delaware. They do actually test lights, horn, wipers, etc. bi-yearly as well but only for function, not factory state. In my old state, Maryland, your car is actually inspected only once, which is when you purchase used, except for bi-yearly emissions testing.... It is pretty sad here.

[swindon_alan]

6 hours ago, ramjet said:

So do the MOT rules in the UK not care if the braking system is the original or just that the braking system that is in the car works when tested?

Hello Mike

The UK MoT regs are here, braking is covered in section 3. The emphasis is on braking performance and there are detailed calculations that are used to work out efficiency using factors such as vehicle weight etc. So it is the latter of the two you asked, originality is not important, with the rider:

"Check all braking system components for any inappropriate repair or modification."

Which is just sensible! When it comes to ABS removal in the case of ditching the Delco:

"If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed.  However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft."

[bogle]

In Indiana,  we only have emissions testing to be concerned about and there are only two counties in the state that do emissions testing.  They weren't checking for anything else except for Tell Tale lights - which I was luckily mine were working properly.  I believe they tested the fuel cap as well.  I had to release the emergency brake - both times when I went there.  There was no charge for emissions testing if you passed.  Sounds like MOT is much more stricter.

[G_Reaper]

On 12/01/2018 at 10:33, rizla603104 said:

You did - I see that now. Would a Stevens bracket work without fettling? Also, the connection to the brake pedal is that straight forward?

Yes the Stevens / S3 bracket works with the old servo and T2 master cylinder. Your part number looks correct for the master cylinder. The actuator rod is a different size from the Delco set up. I used the rod that came with the mounting bracket I bought from DVB. It was a tricky blighter to connect to the stevens S4s pedals but it fitted and worked perfectly. if I recall correctly I had to file 2mm off the top of the fibreglass hole through the bulkhead to the pedal box making the hole slightly oval to allow clearance for the push rod at its extreme travel as the angle from the Delco pedal box set up must be slightly different because of its different mounting bracket.

Cheers Mike

Edited January 29, 2018 by G_Reaper2

[ramjet]

4 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

Hello Mike

The UK MoT regs are here, braking is covered in section 3. The emphasis is on braking performance and there are detailed calculations that are used to work out efficiency using factors such as vehicle weight etc. So it is the latter of the two you asked, originality is not important, with the rider:

"Check all braking system components for any inappropriate repair or modification."

Which is just sensible! When it comes to ABS removal in the case of ditching the Delco:

"If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed.  However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft."

Thanks Alan.