S4s shocks

[Chillidoggy]

I’ve changed the bottom bushes on my rear Gaz dampers before (my refurb thread, pages 6 -7), and I seem to recall not having too much of a problem but I had overhauled the lower links.

Have you thought about compressing the springs to help you get the dampers on? You could try a parallel pin punch in the bush, and a hide mallet to knock them on if you can get them lined up but........if you haven’t overhauled the lower links and the pins don’t slide, the chances are that they’re seized, and you’ve got yet another nice little job to do!

[Giniw]

The springs are compressed indeed, but they are not the problem as it's equally "hard" to install the shock without the spring fitted, it really is the shock extended state that is the problem.

40 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

if you haven’t overhauled the lower links and the pins don’t slide

So, you confirm the #65 studs are supposed to slide? I just hammered one of them gently but it looked stuck and I didn't want to insist too much before I get a confirmation. I will pour a bit of penetrating oil and see if it helps.

 

40 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

chances are that they’re seized, and you’ve got yet another nice little job to do!

Noooooooooooo~~~~~~~!!!! ()

[Chillidoggy]

25 minutes ago, Giniw said:

The springs are compressed indeed, but they are not the problem as it's equally "hard" to install the shock without the spring fitted, it really is the shock extended state that is the problem

Improvise: Strap something around it to hold it closed.

So, you confirm the #65 studs are supposed to slide? I just hammered one of them gently but it looked stuck and I didn't want to insist too much before I get a confirmation. I will pour a bit of penetrating oil and see if it helps.

Yes, they should move, but not that easily. Penetrating oil is a waste of your time, unless perhaps you can wait a few years following a total hub immersion in Plus Gas.

 

Noooooooooooo~~~~~~~!!!! ()

 

Yeeeeeeeesssss!

 

[Sparky]

Whatever you do, DO NOT hammer those studs.  You risk fracturing the carrier.

[Giniw]

6 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Improvise: Strap something around it to hold it closed.

Yep I had something like that in mid indeed, but I was wondering about the removal too (OK just out of curiosity, as I would like to know the best practice. But yes I can strap them. Or dig a hole to remove the gas? \o/)

 

6 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Yes, they should move, but not that easily.

Thanks a lot!

 

@Sparky> thank you very much for the warning! ^^

 

 

6 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

Yeeeeeeeesssss!

lol

[andydclements]

Taking a hammer to the bodywork may be cheaper than a hammer to those studs, given the cost of carriers.

[Giniw]

All right I got the message, thanks!!

 

So an impact wrench is probably not a very good idea either?

[Sparky]

Correct.  Cut it, draw it out, whatever it takes to avoid stressing the carrier.

[Barrykearley]

12 minutes ago, Giniw said:

All right I got the message, thanks!!

 

So an impact wrench is probably not a very good idea either?

this is what happens when a knucklehead, dumbass shit for brains at a crap backstreet garage pretending to be a specialist changes the lower bushes.

i can dig out the invoice and pass on details of the offending twats business contact details.

from memory - that cost the thick end of £8-900 to sort with my own fair hands with new nuts and bolts

[Giniw]

Wow!

I think I will try the strap thing to keep the damper closed, and keep that for later Oo

[Vulcan Grey]

Some people have the steel rod and split bushing spark eroded (EDM, Electro-discharge machined) out of the aluminum hub carrier, to prevent damage to the cast aluminum.

[Chillidoggy]

Before the TLF Wolfpack returns to finish my dismemberment, I wasn’t suggesting you hammer the shaft out, just a gentle knock with a hide mallet which will tell you if the shaft is free. 

[Jacques]

The stud were indeed stuck on my car too, as I wanted to change the upper and lower control arms, bushings etc. I took the nuts off, injected a rather fair amount of liquid to loosen it a bit, and then used washers and extra nuts to pull the studs out. As they freed, I still had to get the old metal sleve out and they were propper stuck. No amount of normal violence (NOT hammering) would bring them out, so ultimately I turned the blade of a hacksaw and very gently, Little at a time, cut lines in the sleves, and could then push the remains out. Phew! They do get Water, and will rust. Of course not driving the Esprit in the Winter and in bad weather in general, will also help the situation

Liberal amounts of lubrication like Wera antiseize ceramic paste (Water resist and heat resist to 1400 deg. cel.) is now in place to try and prevent any future problems. But you never know, so a complete set of spares are on the shelf. Once you give up "magic" solutions, the "free-all-by-a-drop-of-this-and-that-spray", it's easy to do, and does not take long time. Either this or what Travis said.

Kind regards,

Jacques

ps: I'd make a third notch for the spring seat to rest on, before installation.

[Giniw]

@Chillidoggy > too late, you owe me two hub carriers!!! (it isn't free unfortunately)

Thanks @Jacques ! As for the seizure itself, I am unsure any penetrating oil would do something to aluminium/steel galvanic corrosion indeed (although I will probably try just in case). When I address that I will definitely put a good amount of copper grease ...

Did anybody try to heat cycle the assembly a couple of times? (I am not too used to that myself)

https://youtu.be/Vp_d_QsIeQ0?t=946

[Jacques]

Many small things make for a good result. Such fluid won't make it by itself, but Work in conjunction with a press I described. And after getting them out, one may use a bit of cleaning up sandpaper or similar, to make it smooth again. Don't sant it, only clean it up. Or it's the way Travis described.

Kind regards,

jacques

[Escape]

When I installed the rear gas dampers on my Esprit, I used a jack to compress the shock and coil so it aligned better with the stud in the carrier. A gentle tap with a hammer got it on, then it only gets easier as the bush conforms to the angle of the stud. Make sure the car is well supported, both center and under the other side carrier, as the jack under the damper will start to take weight once you compress the spring.

[Giniw]

In the end the left side stud had already been changed so it was quite easy to slide out. It even had some copper grease on it, I added a bit more and slid it back when installing the shock.

As for the right side it was still stuck, so I tried to hold the shock compressed with a rope, but of course the rope needed to be pre-tensioned somehow so it kind of started to fed me up as I don't like doing things the wrong way, and eventually knowing that something was wrong with that stud anyway.
So I sprayed a bit of good penetrating oil, got the torque wrench out and set it on the minimal torque setting and fired it — gently, though! The stud actually broke loose at the first couple of impacts (if not the first), but of course it was just rotating. So I got a puller and just guided the stud out, tightening the puller lightly with fingers only, then rotating, then tightening by hand again, and so. Basically it was just the bush tension that was guiding the stud out.

As for the carrier, I understand it is fragile, but it still have quite huge ribs so I had not too much doubts it could handle the lowest torque from the impact wrench (and of course the reaction torque generated from an impact wrench is very low anyway). I am glad it turned out well (of course I wouldn't have insisted much, but really it broke loose instantly)

=> It's now back on its four wheels (but in need of a new battery (and a fine tuning of the front alignment once it's settles down as I installed a new steering rack too ^^', and then I need to put that new cable to the heater valve (...), then adjust the valves clearances, ... )).

PS: by the way it's not aluminium on steel, it's steel on steel as there is the split sleeve on the front side of the rear carrier, not sure about the rear side).

PPS: again, I cannot stress enough that I only applied ultra minimal force with my puller, it really is just the bushing tension that made the movement out, and the stud had broken loose before I even took the puller out of its box. I probably could have pulled it out with anything, really, it's just that I like the nice controlled movement one have with a puller.

[Giniw]

On 26/02/2018 at 14:38, Giniw said:

What is the best practice to install (and possibly remove) a gas shock at the rear?

=>

• slide the stud towards the front of the car until it's nearly flush with the hub barrier,
• put the top stem first in the upper cup, then the lower hole just in front of the stud
• slide the stud back at least a bit (don't forget to install the washer #76 back between the hub carrier and the shock!), so that the spring and shock now are supporting themselves, then slide it in is final position (the stud and hole axis are not really aligned though, so you need to lightly tap the front of the stud to push it back all the way in.
• install the two washers and the bushing and nut at at the top of the upper cup
• now release the spring and remove the spring compressor
• put back the #76/#77 washers and the #78 nut, but don't torque it now
• put the car on its wheels
• torque the stud to 70N.m.

 

(mmmm, it reminds me I need to order a #76 washer as it lacks one ...)

 

[Giniw]

Here is the official way of putting a stud in at the front :

 

[Barrykearley]

Ahhh - now I coperslipped the daylights out of the passenger side on the S4 - it was a bitch to fit. I didn’t have the space to swing the hammer like that 😂