Time to start explaining

[LotuStuart]

 

Air con is very much almost exactly like what suspension isn't  

Are you referring to the Aircon? What do you think the reason is for such a crap Aircon set up? I've never seen one like it, and with all due respect to Lotus I don't think they know more than everyone else when it comes to Aircon.

Did they stop using the "parts bin" mentality for the Aircon and seek high and low for two Rads they could connect with unique pipeork and Y splitters because that is the best possible set up? My arsehole doubts it. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by LotuStuart
Addition

[Steve V8]

I had to cut the rad frame angle bracings back to almost no angle at all to get a three core in there, they should now twang in different frequencies dependant on the accuracy of my cutting.

Hope you realised this before powder coating.

[swindon_alan]

I just find it completely funny that so many Esprit owners in the UK get so worked up about air conditioning efficiency in their cars and have to design a better mousetrap. Fine, you carry on if it makes you happy. I have never, ever used it in mine. Our climate is shite. Open the windows or the sunroof and breathe fresh air. That's what I did in the south of France. I turn it on to exercise the compressor now and again.

And no, it is nothing like suspension or brakes. Get over it.

[LotuStuart]

2 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

Fair play to you for staying original Barry. Lotus designed it like that for a reason. It is the same with suspension, brake pads, cooling yadda yadda. Opinions are like arseholes...

Sorry. I must be misreading your post. I thought you were saying Lotus designed the Aircon and suspension like they did for a reason, and so I shouldn't change either.

I am very happy with the suspension, the air con rads design is poor at best-that's my opinion, your opinion is that the Lotus Aircon rad design is like it is for a reason. I respect your opinion but disagree. The lotus design was necessary to fit air con rads in the space available. I've found a different design that may not have been available to lotus, and that fits the space and is more efficient. Yay me!

I find that when I'm stuck in traffic on a hot day the Aircon is invaluable to avoid the exhaust fumes and remove the need to sweat heavily. Does that happen a lot? No, but I use the Aircon and you don't. I also use it to demist the screen in combination with the heater. The Aircon dries the air and the car demists quicker with Aircon  

So I'm happy with my setup. And I wouldn't change it back to original. You are welcome to have whatever setup you like of course!

cheers!

 

 

[swindon_alan]

Aircon in the UK is for fatties who have too much personal insulation x

[silverfrost]

Dont hold back Alan       

[CarBuff]

Boys, Boys...

 

Don't be so disparaging about the creature comforts of the Esprit...

 

 

I remember 'back in the day' (mid-'90s) when Esprit owners often complained about 'Freezing Knee Syndrome'. That was when the cars were new and R12 was readily available.

 

Anyway, the point is that the A/C  system works fine when serviced and maintained 'as designed'. You just need to keep the refrigerant  topped up, and the HVAC fan going, especially when driving at a good clip.  The car's aero doesn't allow flow-through without the fan to help it.  In fact, if you pop the rear of the roof panel up, the majority of the outside air comes through the door vents, bypassing the heat/cool entirely.  (I learned this fact the day I drove my Esprit home...)

 

All bets are off if the Cooling Package is plugged with road chuff, though.

 

My car will still freeze your knee right smartly. THAT is why they moved the A/C vents to the binnacle, I'm sure.

Edited February 9, 2018 by CarBuff
spelling

[swindon_alan]

I'm still finding it so funny. When I was a young lad my short trousered legs used to stick to the seats of my dad's Austin A40 Somerset's PVC seats when we got into it after a very rare hot day on Southsea beach. Mum would say "it's fine, it will cool down once we get moving". Of course, mums are always right and it did. I understand that in the heat of Florida or California then for export Lotus needed to fit air conditioning. But in the UK? Come on. There's probably less than two days a year - if that - in ANY car where you would contemplate switching it on.

I'm with CarBuff. It is more than adequate as Hethel designed it.

As for air conditioning reducing vehicle fumes, erm as far as I am aware it pulls in the same atmosphere from around the car if it is turned on or not...

[CarBuff]

34 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

As for air conditioning reducing vehicle fumes, as far as I am aware it pulls in the same atmosphere from around the car if it is turned on or not...

TOPIC DRIFT ALERT 

 

The car's aero will suck air in from the engine bay if the HVAC fan isn't blowing sufficiently.  I sealed the little covers surrounding the seat belt reels and stopped 99% of the Lotus Perfume. Still need to keep the fan on, though.

[LotuStuart]

6 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

Aircon in the UK is for fatties who have too much personal insulation x

Congratulations Alan. 

You are the first person to ever call me fat, but thanks for the kiss. 

My interest in this discussion=gone to zero. 

 

[Barrykearley]

8 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

I had to cut the rad frame angle bracings back to almost no angle at all to get a three core in there, they should now twang in different frequencies dependant on the accuracy of my cutting.

Hope you realised this before powder coating.

Them bits are already off. It’s been acid etched and top hat coated - not powder on this frame. I need to do some further adaptation to mount the fans

6 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

. But in the UK? Come on. There's probably less than two days a year - if that - in ANY car where you would contemplate switching it on.

 

I considered taking it off and dumping the aircon parts frankly. I doubt I’ll use it much

[Chillidoggy]

Speaking as a fat bastard living in the far south east who only uses his car during the summer months, I use my air-con all the time, particularly as I have the glass roof in place, and would otherwise melt into something Damien Hirst might exhibit in the Tate Gallery.

[Barrykearley]

^^ And that’s exactly the reason why I didn’t remove it - I think it would harm value more than save money. 

But once again - for the record - it really isn’t for sale and won’t be

[Barrykearley]

Three new fans arrived today. 

I finished work early to go on a mercy mission which was stood down only minutes from home ??.

so I’ve now got some nice new steel strapping for the rad frame and am awaiting the paint drying before I can assemble the rad frame and fans back together.

 

 

[Barrykearley]

Rad frame and fans fitted.

no it doesn’t have a cowling - yes the fans are 9” - and it’s now three row. Cooling will not be an issue 

[Sparky]

No  cowling?  Mark my words, that'll make the teeth fall off your cambelt.

[swindon_alan]

The wiring looks total sh1te Barry. Hope your hen sheds are better than that x

[Barrykearley]

The black and blue bits prefitted and the black sheathing moves up and down

[swindon_alan]

6 minutes ago, Sparky said:

No  cowling?  Mark my words, that'll make the teeth fall off your cambelt.

Or alternatively make his teeth fall out from the overpressure in the underskirt because of the median dilateral boundary wave pogo vibrations 

2 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

The black and blue bits prefitted and the black sheathing moves up and down

I had a coloured girlfriend once who liked to do that 

[Andyww]

21 hours ago, swindon_alan said:

 

As for air conditioning reducing vehicle fumes, erm as far as I am aware it pulls in the same atmosphere from around the car if it is turned on or not...

Not if its set to recirculate. Even if its not, the wet evaporator acts as a filter.

That odd double condenser arrangement was not used on earlier cars, in fact the original design of the A/C on the Esprit is really good. What happened was R12 was banned. So they had to change the condenser to a type more suited to R134a and probably in an act of desperation went for the dual arrangement. But these days its possible to find single ones which are large enough.

One oddity of the design is the use of the fan cowling. Not sure of the reason for that as other cars, Ferrari etc dont have fan cowlings on the rad. I see Barry you have binned it which is a good move. 

[Steve V8]

6 minutes ago, Andyww said:

One oddity of the design is the use of the fan cowling. Not sure of the reason for that as other cars, Ferrari etc dont have fan cowlings on the rad. I see Barry you have binned it which is a good move. 

I would have to disagree with your comment Andy, the cowling increases the efficiency of the fans by vacuuming cool air through the intake ducting and through the radiators, uncowled fans will draw used warm air from around and behind the fans, the areas of least obstruction. 

The use of higher flow aftermarket fans negates this to a certain degree, but the use of the original Ford fans would be a waste of time without a cowling.

 

 

[Andyww]

The fans cant really draw air from behind them if they are mounted right up to the rad.

Agree that with the Ford fans it would not work as these could not really be mounted flat on the rad since they are just a motor and some blades, not a complete integral unit.

The other disadvantage of the cowling is it restricts airflow at speed when the fans are not running. If you think about it at speed with the cowling 100% of the air is pushed through the stationary fans which are trying to act as wind turbines!

The way Barry has his mounted is the right way for these fans and how other performance cars do it. 

[Chillidoggy]

7 hours ago, Andyww said:

The fans cant really draw air from behind them if they are mounted right up to the rad.

Agree that with the Ford fans it would not work as these could not really be mounted flat on the rad since they are just a motor and some blades, not a complete integral unit.

The other disadvantage of the cowling is it restricts airflow at speed when the fans are not running. If you think about it at speed with the cowling 100% of the air is pushed through the stationary fans which are trying to act as wind turbines!

The way Barry has his mounted is the right way for these fans and how other performance cars do it. 

I’m with you on this. I use a high efficiency core, 11” Spal fans, and for the most part they only come on when the car is stationary after a few minutes. Temperature is rock steady at about 85 on the gauge. Serck did the job, and they know what they’re talking about. The cowling is unnecessary, they told me not to bother with it.

I sold my cowling and original fans to Sparky. Lazy bastard never fitted it, though.

[Sparky]

That will change today, just not on my car.  Tidy little profit.  

[Barrykearley]

7 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

I would have to disagree with your comment Andy, the cowling increases the efficiency of the fans by vacuuming cool air through the intake ducting and through the radiators, uncowled fans will draw used warm air from around and behind the fans, the areas of least obstruction. 

The use of higher flow aftermarket fans negates this to a certain degree, but the use of the original Ford fans would be a waste of time without a cowling.

The ford fans are shit - might as well employ a farting mouse to aid the cooling.

as it is - the rad core is massive now - comfortably twice the size. The fans - they are cheap kitcar ones - £15each - the air they move is simply incredible. This is pretty much the same setup as I fitted to my red one when I first got her - the temp gauge on that one was rock steady at all times. The fans came on about four times in 5000 miles !!

the cowling is crap - it simply reduces flow. Any arguement about it aids fan efficiency blah blah may welll be true - but at that point the rad pack is already too bloody hot. The aim of a rad is to dissipate heat as effectively as possible at all times. Reducing free air flow through them by adding a cowl reduction is completely at odds with this.

2 minutes ago, Sparky said:

That will change today, just not on my car.  Tidy little profit.  

Haha - nice one chap. I kicked mine off the frame in disgust. Cracked and knackered  with fans that didn’t move properly. Couldn’t even get the electrical connectors off the old fans -rusted solid