Michelin cup2 on a daily driver?

[electro_boy]

Hi All,

Looking for some feedback on using the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 tyres on a Evora that is used as a daily driver as well as the odd track day.

I have a 2010 Evora NA that gets used most days for commuting, trips to Wales, North England, European road trips and about 5 track days a year.  Currently I have been using Michelin Pilot Sport 4 which I think are the best high performance all round road tyres you can get for the Evora on 18/19 wheels (PS4S don't come in the right size ☹️).

I've been pretty happy with PS4 they are better than the P-Zero.  I've done the odd track day each year but I've really got the bug and want to do a few more this year maybe 5 days in total and thinking maybe a more track orientated tyre might be better?  From reading about the Cup2 the main down side is their grip level in the wet and also on cold days.  I think can mitigate against this a little bit as I have a second set of wheels with winter tyres that I'm using at the moment so the Cup2 won't be used in the worst of the cold and wet.  

Is the warm and wet weather performance of the Cup2 really scary or as long I accept I can only pottle around in the wet I'll be fine?

I'm also still relatively inexperienced regards track days so for sure there is more time to be found in my self rather than the car but I think the car will feel better with the Cup2 as well and could give me confidence to get faster my self? 

So any feedback is much appreciated! Thanks in advance! 

[Bruss]

I run cup 2's and a spare set of rims with ps4's. I don't find any extra problem in the wet. I also don't use the car every day though. At the mo we havent had any temps below 10 degrees daytime and I still have the cup 2's on. The only thing is they do wear quicker than the ps4's, so if I ran the car as a daily I'd leave the ps4's on and use the cup's just for driving to trackdays, including my longer trips. 

On track I find the cup2's need to be warmed up and then the presuures dropped by quite a bit. They transfer the heat pretty well and pressures will constantly rise over the first few sessions.

[C8RKH]

I have Cup2's on my Evora 410 Sport. In cold damp conditions they are f**king dangerous as no heat in the road or tyre.

I do live in Scotland so unlike @Bruss I rarely see double digit temperatures. Well, not without a minus sign in front of them anyway!

[Bruss]

Evora Scottish edition

and C8 with his previous car.

 

 

 

[Giveitfish]

I daily drove mine and I thought even Pilot Supersports were shocking sub 10 degrees and put Conti winters on instead. I imagine Cup2’s will be hairy on the winter commute!

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Bruss said:

Evora Scottish edition

and C8 with his previous car.

 

 

 

Stick a large exercise ball under Roger's coat and we'd be mistaken for identical twins.

I do think that car colour is lovely...

[Bruss]

😀

I think both those pics were taken in the summer though. The skis are still on the roof.

 

 

[TonyKL]

If the road is greasy or muddy the cup 2s are as brown as the road. A good track tyre but if it’s a daily driver I’d go a little more sensible. 

[C8RKH]

If I keep the car I'm replacing the CUP2's with the MPSPPSpSSSPSP 4's or whatever Michelin refer to them as these days...

Cup 2's are great on track and for warm roads, but that is it.

Also, this time of year, hmmmm.  I drove down from Scotland to Manchester on Monday morning leaving at 0530 as the snow started (in my Volvo S90 awd, not the Evora) however on the M74 in Scotland I drove past a white R8 (aren't they mostly quattro drive too?) that had spun and gone through the fence into  a field. An Audi TT that had spun into the central barrier and 3 other "normal cars" that had obviously broke traction and spun into barriers. All unrelated accidents on a 20 mile stretch of motorway in dodgy conditions.

I think as a daily driver on the roads you should value grip for variable conditions above track performance. It's your life though, just don't hit anyone else.

[jep]

If you do European road trips between November and early April, you will need mud/snow marked tyres (for Germany, Italy, Austria and some other countries also). It is the law. Edit: you have winter tyres, so use those for Europe nov-apr. 

I fitted Vredstein for this reason to my NA, all-season tyres. They do a fine job but I would think useless on track. A compromise I was happy to make as it fits with how I use my Evora (as a brilliant everyday steed). 

Justin 

[Bravo73]

14 hours ago, electro_boy said:

I think can mitigate against this a little bit as I have a second set of wheels with winter tyres that I'm using at the moment so the Cup2 won't be used in the worst of the cold and wet.

I think that most of these responses have missed out on the fact that the OP has winter wheels/tyres. 

For the rest of the year, I think that if you do more road miles than track miles, stick with PSS/PS4S. If you do more track miles (or for a weekend car), Cup2s would be the better option. 

[Techyd]

5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I think as a daily driver on the roads you should value grip for variable conditions above track performance. It's your life though, just don't hit anyone else

This!

[electro_boy]

Sorry all, not sure I understand your comments correctly.  People are saying the Cup2 are very slippery in the cold and wet and there are also many comments about this time of the year.

As said I am running winter tyres at the moment.  The Cup2 will potentially be used in April to Oct time frame depending on the weather.

Do all the comments about being too slippery for everyday use still stand for this time frame?

[Stubox]

The set up you have is fine ie winters oct-apr and Cup2 rest of year 👍

[blindside]

Concur with @Stubox Cup 2s are a really great for summer fast road & track use. They also wear surprisingly well for a softer compound tyre. I find them very sensitive to ambient temperature; anything below 5 -7 % C and its very hard to get enough heat in them to 'stick'. Combine that with the tread pattern and they can/will 'let go' in an instant in cold & very wet conditions; especially laterally on roundabouts or sharp corners. PS4s are a good compromise and more predictable (safer) for use in UK winter conditions. 

[Ric Makepeace]

7 hours ago, electro_boy said:

Sorry all, not sure I understand your comments correctly.  People are saying the Cup2 are very slippery in the cold and wet and there are also many comments about this time of the year.

As said I am running winter tyres at the moment.  The Cup2 will potentially be used in April to Oct time frame depending on the weather.

Do all the comments about being too slippery for everyday use still stand for this time frame?

I'm running cup2 on my tuned Evora S in the GT430 sizes. 

I don't use my car as a daily so I was willing to accept some compromise when I made the decision Vs ps4s.

Positives:

- Super sticky and great for track

- Sidewalls much stiffer so more responsive and less damage to edges if you use on track

Negatives:

- Grip is definitely compromised in cold or wet conditions

- Wear rate is much higher IMHO. I wouldn't be suprised to get as little as 3000 miles from a set. The fact that the initial tread depth is much less to start with probably doesn't help.

- Pressure variation is much higher between cold and hot. I suspect this is due to stiffer sidewalls and compound used. What this means in practice is that you will spend a lot more time checking and setting pressures. 

- Road noise is higher but since when did that ever bother a Lotus owner 🤣

In summary would I recommend for daily driver use? Probably not as I suspect the negatives outweigh benefits and you won't see any real performance benefit on the road over PS4S unless you are driving like a lunatic. 

I guess it depends on how many miles you are driving daily really and whether you are happy to live with the above!

 

 

 

[Tris...]

I had PS4 on my 400, did 18,000 miles on them and still had 4-5mm of tread left when I changed to my GT410 Sport. No track days obviously. 

The Cup 2s are definitely grippier than the PS4 in warm dry conditions, but when it is cold and wet, they can make the drive 'interesting' unless you are able to warm them up and keep them warm.

My plan is to let the Cup2s wear down and replace them with PS4, I'm not likely to do track days and based on everything I've read the performance difference between the two tyres is small enough that I won't really notice the difference, my pocket however will definitely notice the difference.

Tris...

[electro_boy]

thanks again for the feedback guys.

Regarding the comments about using PS4S, unfortunately can't get them in the correct sizes for the 18/19 otherwise it would have been a no brainer.  From the reviews I've read the MP4S gives up only a little to the Cup2 so for a road car is the preferred choice.

For my car its a choice between the Super Sport, the Pilot Sport 4 (no S!) and the Cup2.

So I think the grip level should be ok for my use but a 3K mile durability is a bit low and I am quite sensitive to tyre pressure and find my self regularly adjusting everything so its just right every time the air temp rises or drops significantly. From  @Ric Makepeace comments this only going to get worse.

So its now a two horse race of the Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4

I'm going to try the Super Sport, from what I under the tyre chassis is different to the PS4 and is more motorsport derived and similar to the PS4S and the Cup2.  This may deal with track days a bit better the PS4?

[plenty]

I've tried Super Sport, PS4S (rears only) and PS4 on my car (also 18F/19R) which was tuned to 425/400 via Komo-tec.

 

I drive reasonably briskly (my car used only for Sunday morning blasts and driving trips), getting through a set of rears every 6k miles.  The PS4, despite being ostensibly the lowest performer of the three, were more than adequate for my needs.  I see no point in spending the money for PS4S let alone Cup 2s unless it's for the track.

[Bravo73]

2 hours ago, electro_boy said:

Regarding the comments about using PS4S, unfortunately can't get them in the correct sizes for the 18/19 otherwise it would have been a no brainer.

The advice from the resident Michelin expert for 18/19 is to have Supersports on the front and PS4S on the rear. 

[electro_boy]

ohh interesting!  that doesn't change the balance in bad way then?  thanks for that, might have to try that out! 

[Bravo73]

You can ask him yourself, if you want. @rallyesax He is a tyre tester at Michelin HQ and an Ev400 owner. 👍

[rallyesax]

The best choice of course is to go same tire line Front and rear. So full PSS would be better than PSS front and PS4S rear. This advice was given to a guy here who was not tracking is car and almost not driving on wet weather or on the limit. 

If you do track your car, then yes. The balance will be obvious to you and you should stick to the same pattern. Everything was said on the cup 2 on this thread. It's night and day compared to a PS4 but can be tricky if below 10°C and wet conditions or water puddles. But you do have winter tires, so no big deal using cup 2 as daily for warm weather period of time. Don't over drive it on the wet thu. 

As trackdays are growing on you, for this year of learning, PSS or PS4S all around would have been a good 'in the middle' step. But if your sizes are not available, go cup 2. 

Cheers 

[electro_boy]

Thank you all for the information it has been very helpful.  I sat down last night comparing pro and cons and costs etc ...   and I think going for Super Sport all round is the best choice for me.

The tests and reviews I've read say its a very good road tyre and deals with track use a bit better than the PS4.  I'm still a beginner so its much better spending money and effort increasing by abilities rather than increasing the tyres' ability.  I just don't think I'd make the most of the performance advantage a Cup2 would give.  Maybe in a year or two when I have more experience and skill I can think about switching over to Cup2.