Brexit

[ChrisJ]

 

[march]

1 hour ago, duncx said:

It's surely heading towards a second referendum.

A fair way would be to ask two questions.....

1) Do you want to stay in the EU or leave the EU?

2) If a majority of voters in this referendum want to leave the EU would you prefer to leave with 'the Deal' or with 'no deal'?

A failure to answer both questions will count as a spoilt paper and be discarded.

Completely agree - we should have another referendum - and keep having them until we get the answer I want!

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, SFO said:

The issue is more about disruption to “just in time” supply chains of car makers in particular. 

 

Why is it though? Are the UK government going to delay imports of car components? Why would they?

[pete]

what is the matter with all the MPs tonight they are having  a debate on why they didn`t have a debate yesterday and a vote tonight about not having a vote tonight. The EU must be laughing at us

[duncx]

3 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

@duncx - We've already had a referendum for your No 1)

So if there was a further referendum, there could only be No 2..

The problem with that is that the remainers would NEVER EVER shut up about it and the country and parliament would remain divided.

If we voted remain then the remainers would have been right - enough people have changed their mind now they have an understanding of what's on offer. I'm not actually sure that that's the case!

If we voted out again then at least everyone has a say in how we come out and hopefully we can get on with it with a cast iron mandate from the electorate.

3 hours ago, march said:

Completely agree - we should have another referendum - and keep having them until we get the answer I want!

I didn't say if I count myself as a leaver or a remainer - I am genuinely thinking of how we could move forward from this stalemate.

[ChrisJ]

Ah …. but then if Remain won a second referendum, we would need a third just to be sure. etc. etc.

I'll post this again

 

[duncx]

I know and I don't necessarily disagree. However, as it stands there is no chance of May's deal getting through and I'm beginning to think that there is no chance of a no deal exit - parliament is simply not going to let it happen. We have to move forward somehow.

[march]

1 hour ago, duncx said:

I didn't say if I count myself as a leaver or a remainer - I am genuinely thinking of how we could move forward from this stalemate.

I was also not counting myself as a Leave or Remainer either in this situation I was, admittedly clumsily, trying to make a point on democracy. If we keep voting on a point until an outcome is changed then we will not be living in a democracy. We need to be careful that an approach that may overcome a current situation creates a precedence that has greater ramifications further down the road.

[PaulCP]

Current situation is that so many of Conservative MPs are so far up themselves jostling for position, & only thinking about themselves, they can’t see that the party is imploding in the same way as Labour did a few years ago.

There’s no better way to lose a general election than internal squabbling!

[100th_Idiot]

4 hours ago, Andyww said:

Why is it though? Are the UK government going to delay imports of car components? Why would they?

I'll bet the French will delay things heading our way

[duncx]

2 hours ago, march said:

I was also not counting myself as a Leave or Remainer either in this situation I was, admittedly clumsily, trying to make a point on democracy. If we keep voting on a point until an outcome is changed then we will not be living in a democracy. We need to be careful that an approach that may overcome a current situation creates a precedence that has greater ramifications further down the road.

I agree, it's far from ideal to have a 2nd referendum and I can see compelling arguments both for and against the idea. I'm just hoping for a way forward and trying to add some compromise into my thinking. At the moment I can't see any other way that isn't going to seriously disenfranchise at last half the population one way or the other, and of course I recognise that a narrow vote to remain wouldn't do anything to solve that. Oh dear

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

I'll bet the French will delay things heading our way

They can keep their cheese and wine then 👍

[Barrykearley]

8 hours ago, duncx said:

It's surely heading towards a second referendum.

A fair way would be to ask two questions.....

1) Do you want to stay in the EU or leave the EU?

2) If a majority of voters in this referendum want to leave the EU would you prefer to leave with 'the Deal' or with 'no deal'?

A failure to answer both questions will count as a spoilt paper and be discarded.

We were asked a very simple question last time.

The government spent £9M on propaganda shit which dropped through every letter box in the uk. This spelled out what would happen. 

Why are we in the deal pishe situation. That was never the choice. It’s some old crap made up by idealistic Eurocrats and we are being played.

we need a political leader with a backbone whom will encourage belief in our success. The Germans failed twice to conquer Europe in wartime they will fail a third time with this political coup and we will be back to being great again.

[Stubox]

43 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

we need a political leader with a backbone whom will encourage belief in our success.

Good idea. Who do you have in mind from our currently elected fuckwitters ?

[USAndretti42]

Why do they call a possible second referendum a "people's vote"?  Who voted the first time? Non-people?

I voted remain.  The leave vote won.  Let's get on with it.

[Steve V8]

1 hour ago, Stubox said:

Who do you have in mind from our currently elected fuckwitters ?

This statement just about sums it up.

Leavers and remainers alike at least agree on one thing. There's not one politician in government in any party that has what it takes to lead this country. There's no vision, no backbone, no belief. Just self interested single minded blinkered idiots squabbling to get themselves to the top of the pile, and what a pile of shit that is.

 

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, Stubox said:

Good idea. Who do you have in mind from our currently elected fuckwitters ?

David Davies is probably the least worst option.

[ChrisJ]

With Andy on this. DD is the only one that makes sense to me.

 

[SFO]

14 hours ago, Andyww said:

Why is it though? Are the UK government going to delay imports of car components? Why would they?

I think it’s the disruption caused at Dover due to French/EU checks on UK exports to EU. Apparently car components cross borders many times as they are built. 

So UK companies can be caused disruption due to UK components which need EU bits before returning to UK being held up by French/EU checks. 

[SFO]

It’s not all the fault of the politicians; the country is massively divided and there isn’t a unifying vision that any politician has that people can get behind 

As a result, no politician would have been able to avoid the mess that we are in

however, if we had planned seriously for no deal properly - so that we could actually call EU’s bluff and walk away - we would have been able to avoid the panic that is driving much of the events at this late stage; and not be pushed around or scared into submission 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

On 10/12/2018 at 13:24, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Act 10: vote called-off by PM#2 at 11th hour. The farce continues.

Edit.

Act 10. vote called-off by PM#2 at 11th hour and No Confidence election is called.

Edited December 12, 2018 by LotusLeftLotusRight

[Kimbers]

My wife has changed her vote from remain to leave purely based on the attitude of the Remainers and Politicians. She is a very intelligent lady with a 1st Class Hons Degree and said that she couldn't vote remain again, in all good conscience, because it would undermine Democracy if the referendum was overturned.

And what then if it was? I for one would demand another vote due to the hype and made up "consequences" by the remainers. I like to think I'm not alone. The issue is that the Govt and Parliament is run by a bunch of remainers who are only interested in themselves and their back handers and pensions from retiring to become EU Diplomats, ambassadors and Beurocrats. They are pushing this second vote through no matter what happens. 

For once I think the French have it right with their fuel demonstrations. Mass demonstrations by 52% of the population until any second vote is overturned again!

My suggestion is let May stay in. Agree her deal, then behind the scenes change PM to Reese Mogg or Johnson, tell the EU to F off and be done with it!

 

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

And what then if it was?

The streets of London will burn and I’m off to prison. 

[mayevora]

Democracy has already spoken in the 1st referendum. If we are subject to another referendum I personally will never vote in anything again as it will prove we are not living in a democratic Country anymore.

[Neal H]

I agree with mayesprit above. I won't vote in a second referendum because this question was answered last time. The only reason Brexit hasn't been delivered yet is because parliament has refused to respect the outcome and therefore the democratic process, which is disgraceful.

It isn't difficult, you try and negotiate an exit and if you can't you just leave with no deal. The original question wasn't "only leave the EU if the fuckwit politicians agree"