Brexit

[Kimbers]

BBC would never report that, but will report Blair saying you are all going to die and go to hell as if its 100% true! 

[SFO]

The man Abbott for UK PM!!

[pete]

Why has it taken an Australian to express it so positively, where is the British equivalent. This letter should be on the front pagevofcevery British newspaper

[Mark Blanchard]

Those few paragraphs have summed up what no politician has been able to say in 2 years.  Clearly and articulately written, please send to all MP at the House of Morons.

[ChrisJ]

Sent to mine.

[Steve V8]

Sent to my MP,  (Jacob Rees-Mogg)

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Apparently Spain is now kicking up a fuss again about Gibraltar.

On a related matter, I haven't yet heard them say when they intend to hand over their own North African port colonies of Ceuta and Mellila back to Morocco...

[C8RKH]

@LotusLeftLotusRight yes and apparently they are now also saying that an Independent Scotland would be welcomed into the EU. So much for harmony and them (the EU states) negotiating as a single entity etc.  What a bloody larf!  You will never truly have a united Europe, the EU is in name only but inside it it is 27 different countries all vying for position, for power, for personal benefits etc.  The whole thing will come crashing down eventually.

As for the fishing, if it is so important to them then i would have a simple proposal - tariff free trade and access to the single market and you can have access to the fishing. otherwise, go and sling your fooking hook and get out of here.  This is now the time for some tough negotiating, in public, from our side to show them that we will not be brow beaten into submission. But will it happen. Will it 'eck....

[Kimbers]

ITV doom mongering last night on the news saying to expect almost apocolyptic destruction of industry and trade. "Something has to be done immediately to save the country" said the neutral announcer.

Apparently "Now a new referendum is more likely than not".

How can they even say things like that on the news? They also said that Euro leaders are queueing up to threaten the UK about leaving with no deal. My wife put it succinctly "So they are blackmailing us"....yup!!

[Barrykearley]

At what point will these idiots give up?

they are forgetting we are British - and even with the immigration and watering down of our cultural identity - we are a British nation.

what will they do if and when we vote again to leap into this imaginary abyss which is in fact a fantastic opportunity to reject the concept of a UEU

[Kimbers]

I can see riot and insurrection o a huge scale if they decide to stay in! It will be Chaos and even further divide the country!

[C8RKH]

I best put the kettle on as we'll all be needing a nice, fresh brew then.

 

Two things from this week. (1) I will never again holiday in Spain and I will NEVER buy a Spanish car.  (2) I need more tea bags.  Carry on.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

We're too civilized a nation to riot about stuff. "Keep Calm and Carry On", which sort of translates into "I can't be bothered".

[Steve V8]

After two and a half years of constant media doom mongering, let's hope the populous haven't forgotten why we voted to leave.

I certainly haven't... our country on a downward spiral economically, our manufacturing industry unable to compete internationally, our welfare system abused by migrants and our government powerless to do anything about it. No hope for our children and grandchildren with housing stock snapped up and rented out to subsidised eastern Europeans. And no the tax they pay doesn't begin to cover the tax credits they receive. 

Needed, good for the economy, sorry that's BOLLOCKS . Just get out into the public sector and see who inhabits all the council houses, go into the town's on a weak day and see who's drinking in the streets, and shouting obscenities at your daughters, who's paying for that, we are, we need out now.

[Barrykearley]

You just can’t say any of that @Steve V8. The left wing liberal champagne swigging elitists just won’t and can’t handle the truth

[PaulCP]

7 minutes ago, Steve V8 said:

After two and a half years of constant media doom mongering, let's hope the populous haven't forgotten why we voted to leave.

I certainly haven't... our country on a downward spiral economically, our manufacturing industry unable to compete internationally, our welfare system abused by migrants and our government powerless to do anything about it. No hope for our children and grandchildren with housing stock snapped up and rented out to subsidised eastern Europeans. And no the tax they pay doesn't begin to cover the tax credits they receive. 

Needed, good for the economy, sorry that's BOLLOCKS . Just get out into the public sector and see who inhabits all the council houses, go into the town's on a weak day and see who's drinking in the streets, and shouting obscenities at your daughters, who's paying for that, we are, we need out now.

Throughout it all the media and majority of politicians have been the same

No journalist questions and askes the doom mongers to justify, quantify and qualify their statements by showing the masses and sources of  research that has been carried out to formalise their conclusions.

It’s all opinions created to justify their blind ignorance and their personal and prejudiced vested interests, in the belief that the general public are just idiots. It is time some of the politicians were shown the door, they have outlasted their welcome, and the BBC & ITV reporters were brought to task as to why they can’t do their jobs right by mere reporting when it should also be their jobs to ensure that the public’s are correctly informed.

One of the first things I would do is inform the BBC that there is no more tax or licence payers money to fund their useless organisation and that, after the end of this year they are on their own so they can compete on the same ground as ITV etc.

As for Reece-Mog and his cronies, are they still watching endless episodes of House of Cards in the belief that it is the best training for them?

[MPx]

8 hours ago, PaulCP said:

It’s all opinions created to justify their blind ignorance and their personal and prejudiced vested interests, in the belief that the general public are just idiots.

We bought an electric vehicle (i3) this year, so I now have another forum to monitor.  Predictably the SpeakEV forum is dominated by lefty tree huggers (I'm not a good fit!).  Judging by a recent poll on there its at least 2 to 1 remoaners vs leavers.  There's been some "lively" Brexit discussion on various threads (all of which have now been locked!) ... but the bottom line has been the majority of them saying almost exactly that quote from Paul about the leavers.  As I see it those of us that voted leave have our reasons which are many and varied but based on our experience of life in the UK and our hopes for the future.  The remoaners by contrast voted remain for many and varied reasons based on their experience of life in the UK and their hopes for the future.  Both sides regularly trot out firmly held beliefs in soundbites that they feel decimates the other position and are incredulous that the other side aren't convinced by them.  Nearly always it involves statistics despite nearly everyone being aware of the standard textbook "How to lie with Statistics" which should at least flag up some expectation that the oppo may not believe the implied arguments from the numbers quoted.  I see it as surprisingly simple.  Its a binary choice - we're in or we're out.  Clearly both positions will have pros and cons so its not hard to find something that is better or worse in the other position and argue that small point - as if it would have the weight to change someones position.  Not even in the least emotive and well reasoned debates have I seen any evidence of anyone at all on either side changing their position.   

In my view we Brexiteers were lost as soon as a remainer with limited imagination was put in charge.  That view from Oz a few posts ago sums it up brilliantly - we haven't had the leadership to make a success of Brexit so its going to be a fudge.  To be fair to them I'm not convinced that anyone in the running (BoJo, Gove, Leadsom, Fox or even Davis or JRM?) would have had the courage and backing to do what was required either.  (Well maybe BoJo would but it would be just too cringey to have him as leader - similar to how the thinking half of the US view Trump.)  So what we will get will be a half arsed compromise.  It wont be as good as leaving and we'll miss most of the biggest potential benefits...but we'll probably not take some of the biggest hits of Brexit either.  Everyone will be able to point to their bit of success "saving" Britain from the lunacy of the other side and all those things that we miss out on will be dismissed by the other side as stuff that always was unobtainium which of course can't be proven otherwise.  A huge shame, but at least it will pass and I'll be able to get back to sharing a beer and chat with others again without having that awful moment when you say something innocuous but realise you've broken cover as an X in a roomful of Ys and what everyone was enjoying as a bit of banter suddenly turns ugly.

[Chillidoggy]

2 hours ago, MPx said:

We bought an electric vehicle (i3) this year, so I now have another forum to monitor.  Predictably the SpeakEV forum is dominated by lefty tree huggers (I'm not a good fit!).  Judging by a recent poll on there its at least 2 to 1 remoaners vs leavers.  There's been some "lively" Brexit discussion on various threads (all of which have now been locked!) ... but the bottom line has been the majority of them saying almost exactly that quote from Paul about the leavers.  As I see it those of us that voted leave have our reasons which are many and varied but based on our experience of life in the UK and our hopes for the future.  The remoaners by contrast voted remain for many and varied reasons based on their experience of life in the UK and their hopes for the future.  Both sides regularly trot out firmly held beliefs in soundbites that they feel decimates the other position and are incredulous that the other side aren't convinced by them.  Nearly always it involves statistics despite nearly everyone being aware of the standard textbook "How to lie with Statistics" which should at least flag up some expectation that the oppo may not believe the implied arguments from the numbers quoted.  I see it as surprisingly simple.  Its a binary choice - we're in or we're out.  Clearly both positions will have pros and cons so its not hard to find something that is better or worse in the other position and argue that small point - as if it would have the weight to change someones position.  Not even in the least emotive and well reasoned debates have I seen any evidence of anyone at all on either side changing their position.   

In my view we Brexiteers were lost as soon as a remainer with limited imagination was put in charge.  That view from Oz a few posts ago sums it up brilliantly - we haven't had the leadership to make a success of Brexit so its going to be a fudge.  To be fair to them I'm not convinced that anyone in the running (BoJo, Gove, Leadsom, Fox or even Davis or JRM?) would have had the courage and backing to do what was required either.  (Well maybe BoJo would but it would be just too cringey to have him as leader - similar to how the thinking half of the US view Trump.)  So what we will get will be a half arsed compromise.  It wont be as good as leaving and we'll miss most of the biggest potential benefits...but we'll probably not take some of the biggest hits of Brexit either.  Everyone will be able to point to their bit of success "saving" Britain from the lunacy of the other side and all those things that we miss out on will be dismissed by the other side as stuff that always was unobtainium which of course can't be proven otherwise.  A huge shame, but at least it will pass and I'll be able to get back to sharing a beer and chat with others again without having that awful moment when you say something innocuous but realise you've broken cover as an X in a roomful of Ys and what everyone was enjoying as a bit of banter suddenly turns ugly.

Well said, Sir.

[JG220]

Yes, thats all very nice but, given that the fudge is certainly worse than remaining, and that no deal 'doesn't have a majority (in parliament or in the public') then isn't remaining the least bad outcome?

Wouldn't it be nice if we can just put it all behind, accept it was 2 years and £billions of wasted time and money and instead, rather than Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation as each successive governments seek to make the deal a little bit less bad, can't we now focus that effort and money on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- House of Lords reform

-And so on and so on

History (in factt it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of Brexit. It was a vote which should never have come to bear because the effects of its distraction will last for decades and the country will be significantly weaker as a result.

Edited November 24, 2018 by JG220

[Barrykearley]

Sadly our ruling politicians have never actually given a toss about any of those items for decades

[MPx]

4 hours ago, JG220 said:

Yes, thats all very nice but, given that the fudge is certainly worse than remaining, and that no deal 'doesn't have a majority (in parliament or in the public') then isn't remaining the least bad outcome?

...and the country will be significantly weaker as a result.

 

I'm guessing that you didn't get the bit about neither side giving any credence to the others stats (your bit about majorities) nor their firmly held beliefs (your statement that the fudge is worse than remaining and the country being significantly weaker).  I'll say it again...I've not yet come across one solitary person outside parliament who has changed their mind in either direction based on the presented evidence or argument from the other side ...  It appears that what the individual believes is based on too many factors dear to them such that it cant be successfully challenged by an argument about just one or two things however "right" that particular point is even if its accepted which very few are.   Or is your experience of this subject different to mine and you have made loads of converts?  

[Barrykearley]

I know many remainers whom have completely changed their minds based on the disgusting approach the EU have towards the UK.

[Andyww]

Yes the writing was on the wall even before the referendum.

Cameron quite rightly went to them and warned them that they really should give some concessions otherwise there was a risk the UK might vote leave but they told him to sod off.

[JG220]

29 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I know many remainers whom have completely changed their minds based on the disgusting approach the EU have towards the UK.

And the reverse is true too. 

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, JG220 said:

Yes, thats all very nice but, given that the fudge is certainly worse than remaining, and that no deal 'doesn't have a majority (in parliament or in the public') then isn't remaining the least bad outcome?

Wouldn't it be nice if we can just put it all behind, accept it was 2 years and £billions of wasted time and money and instead, rather than Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation as each successive governments seek to make the deal a little bit less bad, can't we now focus that effort and money on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- House of Lords reform

-And so on and so on

History (in factt it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of Brexit. It was a vote which should never have come to bear because the effects of its distraction will last for decades and the country will be significantly weaker as a result.

I'll take your VX220.ORG post and raise you with my VX220.ORG response to it:

I disagree with you @JG. After all we did not have a referendum on a "deal" we had a referendum on in or out?  So saying "no deal" does not have public support is wrong and how is this backed up? I know many people who are happy to see a "no deal".

And your point re Brexit dominating British politics for at least a generation, well, isn't that what membership of the EU has done? When we look at the money and effort we have wasted on that institution?  How could that have been better spent over the past 30 years on:

- Child poverty

- Policing and security

- Education, in particular school funding

- The NHS

- Transport and Infrastructure. 

- And so on and so on.

History (in fact it's already evident)  will show that these have all fallen behind because of our membership of the EU and the interference in our culture, way of life etc. from Brussels and the EU. It was a vote which was long overdue because the effects of The distraction and protectionism from the EU will continue to last for decades and the country will be further significantly weakened as a result.

Sound familiar?

Thanks.