Formula One

[scotty435]

Red bull are coming over as the Republican Party of the F1 pitlane with Marko playing the part of Donald Trump. Its just embarrassing the sorest losers in the history of motorsport. Horny will be making a Trump statement next and say that Verstappen actually won the race and should be awarded the 25 points.

[exeterjeep]

43 minutes ago, scotty435 said:

awarded the 25 points.

And getting the fastest lap point.

[C8RKH]

Very good.

 

[scotty435]

Brilliant and like most level headed F1 enthusiast,  journalist, team manager would surely agree a racing incident. 👍

[Chillidoggy]

Apart from the race stewards, who didn’t. And they’re the referees.

[C8RKH]

And we all know referees never make mistakes 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Bravo73

[Chillidoggy]

Yeeees, but that doesn’t matter. They’re still right whether you like it, or not.

[910Esprit]

which they deemed to be worthy of a 10 second penalty....

[C8RKH]

Which I am happy with but Red Bull are not.

I suggest that if Red Bull decide to appeal and take action then every driver who has been punted off the track by Max needs to appeal also and with luck, he'll be banned for the season as a result and everyone will be happy and fair justice will have been done.

F1 races starts - Max 95, Lewis 276

F1 retirements - Max 20.9%, Lewis 8.7%.  

F1 licence Points - Max 23. Lewis 8!

So Max has done a third of the races of Lewis in his career and has three times as many penalty points to his licence.

Well fook me with a large iron pipe. That tells a bloody story as to who is the more reckless, dangerous and unsporting driver if ever there was a story to tell. Has no one ever told Verstappen and Red Bull the parable about "those in glass houses throwing the first stone?"

Edited July 23, 2021 by Bravo73

[Chillidoggy]

It doesn’t change the race stewards’ decision, but I believe those licence points are incorrect. You’ve quoted Verstappen’s lifetime points against Hamilton’s current points.

https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

Hamilton also has two points to be added to this year’s total after his penalty at Silverstone.

 

[C8RKH]

Lifetime points in F1 though so not sure who has missed what here.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Bravo73

[Chillidoggy]

You’ve mixed lifetime points with current points.

Lifetime points - Verstappen has 23, Hamster has 15, with another two yet to be added, takes him to 17 points, not 8.

Current points - Verstappen has none, Hamster has 8, with the latest two still to be added, takes him to 10 points.

So, saying Verstappen has three times the penalty points is wrong.

 

[C8RKH]

3 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

So, saying Verstappen has three times the penalty points is wrong.

You are quite correct, and I apologise for getting that wrong.

So by doing a 3rd of the races (181 less) Max has managed to rack up c. 30% more licence points than Hamilton to date.  Still paints a picture as to maybe who is the more, shall we say, aggressive racer.

I am not denying that Max is a talent, but what does piss me off is that he has been treated like he is "special" and he has gotten away with a lot (I am sure a few people, like me, would argue his licence points tally should be higher, but as you say, the referee is always right!) both on and off track already.

My particular beef with the situation is the reaction from him, and Red Bull in general, to what, (just by the amount of contention/differing views being expressed everywhere on the subject), was a racing incident and how this has been turned into potential accusations of Hamilton trying to endanger Max's life etc etc.  It is, and has been, a crass, unprofessional, unsporting, and emotive response from a race team that has been very quiet (whilst vociferously trying to defend the indefensible at the same time loudly) in the past when their own driver has been the cause of many issues, a couple very, very similar in circumstances to this.

The track record speaks for itself. The driver with the most points, the most DNF's, is also the most spoilt, the most uncompromising and the most aggressive. Some are referring to him as a bully on the track, and many drivers have admitted that they give him extra room to preserve there finish or chance of a collision in a race. Max needs to remember the age old adage, of "to finish first, first you need to finish" and Red bull need to wind down the rhetoric given their drivers past misdemeanours and attitude ("I don't need to respect anyone"). I said at the start of this season that the biggest issue Max will face in winning the WDC this year will be Max, and his ability to take the long term view to win the WDC. So far, he is proving he is as rash as ever and that may well lose him the WDC this year, though maybe the outright speed of the RB car this year will negate that.  But then like with Hamilton, it will all be about the best car won not the best driver of course

 

[Chillidoggy]

This is all well and good, but you’ve once again missed the point, or glossed over it, that the race stewards gave Hamster the penalty, and not Verstappen. All the keyboard warriors armchair pundits and indeed, F1 team owners, cannot change that. Any post-incident debate about it (to me at least), is therefore pointless. It’s done. That’s it. Deal with it. Move on.

To me, what’s more important is I see that Masi is not best pleased by the lobbying carried out by both Merc and Red Bull, and this may in future be deemed against FIA regs. That at least would allow the race stewards to consider their verdicts in relative peace from the likes of Horner bleating in their lugholes.

[C8RKH]

I've not missed the point nor glossed over it @Chillidoggy. I have been quite clear that I disagree with the decision. You are quite clear the referee is always right. Ergo, no point in debating that point any further as neither you, nor I, despite not being called Margaret, are for turning.

Re the lobbying of the Stewards. Was it not Massi himself, who, when Toto contacted him as the Race Director, TOLD Toto to "Go talk to the stewards". If you recall, Toto didn't even know where the Stewards office was.  So I am sure this morning Massi got up, looked in the mirror, told himself off for being a dickhead for misleading a Team manager, then issued the note to clarify to all HIS mistake and make sure no one followed HIS advice in the future to go to talk to the Stewards. This I am sure was followed by a quick call to Toto to apologise for putting him in an awkward position.

[TdM]

Out of interest does the cost of a lawyer come out of RBR's budget cap?

[pete]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57933378

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

That’s if they even know where the stewards’ room is located!

[PaulCP]

Well Horner has now lost all respect from me. Still blabbing on about the incident at Silverstone and thinking of appealing Hamilton’s penalty with a view to getting it increased, presumably by some sort of points deduction.

His desperation to win the F1 title seems to be “win at any cost” Sport is the loser in this

When has any team in the past cried wolf about how much repairing a cars damage is going to cost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57949190

[exeterjeep]

9 hours ago, PaulCP said:

When has any team in the past cried wolf about how much repairing a cars damage is going to cost.

Perhaps a lot of those parts are on back order at the factory.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Red Bull Racing still whining. They must be really rattled.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57988419

Get over if FFS. Put all your energies into winning the next race.

[chipp]

They are, all part of the game going into the next round.

[C8RKH]

Oh, it is going to be such fun seeing every other team complain and appeal every time Max takes out one of their cars/drivers. Be careful what you wish for lol...

Have cancelled my subscription for red bull supplies, which means  100 German Jaegermeisters are now on the EU equivalent of the dole too. Poor sods, all because of a bloody whinging whatever...  After complaining about unsporting behaviour this really does take the caffeine infused piss.

[Frickin_idiot]

Why all the whining Horner? Perhaps Red Bull are trying to become the best Ferrari.

[scotty435]

Never been a fan of Max and just as he is starting to win me over. The idiots at Red Bull and especially the tosser Horner as put the most discussing taste in my mouth It’s a sad day for the sport that I sincerely love. Flavio Briatore was probably the most disliked team boss in the history of F1 as been surpassed by Horner by a country mile.