Lotus Type 131 - The Rumour Mill

[Evotion]

24 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

We haven't heard anything about lightening measures of any kind only increased practicality, comfort and usability. We know it's Evora chassis and drivetrain. The GT430 was covered in carbon to a level that won't be achievable under £100k and GT430 was a 2+0 already, the weight will be closer to Evora than Exige for certain. Increased practicality means visibility is important - a Cayman strong point also - that means lots of glass with an option for perspex if we're lucky. Reduced sills for easier access will mean strengthening elsewhere. Modern luxury and interior tech aimed at China and US markets primarily should mean things like heated, cooled, electric seats. That would make the sort of statement that Lotus want to make to reach the wider audience. This is where they want to go according to every statement released to date. You really need to appreciate the rejection of anything to do with extreme, spartan, stripped-out track machines at the senior level at Hethel. Don't be surprised if it's nearer 1500kg without any lightweight options. Real world weight for the Evora 400 was nearer 1450kg as we all know.

Yep, I agree - and I am not yet sure if this is good or bad. 

I'd settle for light-weighting options such as deletions or different screens as you mentioned, thereby giving the consumer choice.

All comes down to personal use of course. I like the fact that it will be a daily driver for the V6 , whereas the 4-Cyl could be stripped out somewhat but, in that case, unless the Emira moves the games on hugely, on is likely better offer with an older model.

We do know they need a car with more mass appeal. Some will not be happy, the purists.

Interesting to see what stance the journos take on first impression drives. 

Will it be a case of a superb car made too heavy or a heavier car that is superb, which is two ways of spinning it. 

I think we can trust Lotus to give us the best of everything and we will be deliriously happy.

[DarrylV8]

@jimichangaif the weight is nearer 1500kg then I think it will be a major issue, lite weighting is part of Lotus DNA along with how the cars feel to the driver

which senior people at Lotus have you spoken to that are rejecting stripped out track machines?

[Ali tuck]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons I’ve heard that the faster car will be the 2ltr- not the v6 -the 2ltr coming from the new c63 500+ bhp!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

How does that tally with the proposed prices then? £55k for the slower V6? Surely not, when an Evora GT410 Sport starts at £87k.

[Ali tuck]

It would make some sense with power options but I agree- it does seem to be arse about face- the plot thickens

[exeterjeep]

6 minutes ago, Ali tuck said:

the plot thickens

well I suppose there are just 46 days to go....have not got round to calculating the hours.

[Gashead1105]

All the talk about customisation/light weight options etc - I'm sure that will follow in due course and following the established Porsche pay more for less model but I think the launch edition could have limited options available, may well just be a limited pool of paint choices but otherwise a 'standard' high spec for ease of factory assembly. I could live with that, so long as there is a nice blue and (more importantly) Lotus design the car properly in the first place so that my shortarse wife (as in, 5 ft 2) can reach the bottom of the clutch pedal, which she can't do in my Evora...

I am more skeptical about the likelihood of an AMG power train with each passing day - I suspect it's wishful thinking frankly. Between supplying Aston Martin and Mercedes I doubt they have a lot of spare capacity. I think it's more likely to be a Volvo unit, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. The T5 motor is at 250hp and Polestar will increase it further.

[TomE]

It'll be interesting to see how they pitch the launch spec.  The Evora Launch Editions were fully loaded with all options, so the only choices were exterior and interior colour plus wheels.  It was supposed to make it easier to build the first batch of cars but did make them significantly more expensive than the intended base price.

Launching the Emira with a sensible mid-range set of options but standardised I guess makes some sense.  But I'd be frustrated as an early deposit-holder to be told I couldn't have a "full options" version to my specification until several months after the launch batch.  We'll see. 

[TheKevlarKid]

Having the early cars fully loaded did cost more to buy than the base  car but it was less than if you spec'd a later car up to the same level....

 

[TomE]

Agreed, but deposit holders had been told the Evora would be a £45k car plus options, then pricing and launch info came out that had a higher base and required committing to a £60k+ spend to keep your place in the queue for a launch car.  Some people not happy about that, me included.

Let's see what they propose for the Emira.  If I have to wait so I can get my required spec then I'll be annoyed but can at least continue with the Evora while I wait.  For those of us loyal and committed enough to have put deposits in already, it seems a strange way to be treated.

[brightoncorgi]

Lotus needs a better warranty if they want to motivate buyers who are on the fence whether to purchase.  At least offer extended service contracts they can buy like Ferrari and Aston offers.

[Bravo73]

15 minutes ago, brightoncorgi said:

…a better warranty…extended service contracts

I suspect that by the time that the Emira is handed over to customers, these sorts of things will be available. 

Lotus has certainly been playing ‘catch up’ in other areas recently: https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-approved-to-launch-on-april-12th-in-the-uk/amp/

[jimichanga]

6 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

@jimichangaif the weight is nearer 1500kg then I think it will be a major issue, lite weighting is part of Lotus DNA along with how the cars feel to the driver

which senior people at Lotus have you spoken to that are rejecting stripped out track machines?

It won't be an issue to the wider audience they are aiming for. Most people actually prefer the 'planted' feel of a heavier car. Newer people at Lotus desperately want to get away from the track toy association hence all recent promo films are set on road not on track. No doubt the target weight is the 1405kg (DIN) Cayman 718 GTS (naturally that is for a car with no options therefore effectively 'lightest possible'). If Lotus can get Emira under that they will claim 'lightest in class', Lotus DNA and other such things.

Edited May 21, 2021 by jimichanga

[Bravo73]

51 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

…hence all recent promo films are set on road not on track.

Hardly:

 

[jimichanga]

That is not a Lotus paid promotional film. The last one (Final Edition) was abstract. The 'For The Drivers' one featuring the recently axed range was all road footage. See for yourself where they set the Emira promo films. If you see a single shot of it being driven hard on track then they must have a new head of Marketing.

Edited May 21, 2021 by jimichanga

[Likuid]

48 minutes ago, jimichanga said:

It won't be an issue to the wider audience they are aiming for. Most people actually prefer the 'planted' feel of a heavier car. Newer people at Lotus desperately want to get away from the track toy association hence all recent promo films are set on road not on track. No doubt the target weight is the 1405kg (DIN) Cayman 718 GTS (naturally that is for a car with no options therefore effectively 'lightest possible'). If Lotus can get Emira under that they will claim 'lightest in class', Lotus DNA and other such things.

Many people on these Emira posts confuse what they want with what sells cars. Weight and handling feel mean almost nothing to most people, even those in the market for sports cars. Those are just bonuses.

The Evora basically received nothing but praise from reviewers on how great it was to drive and it sold terribly, even by Lotus standards.

I want Lotus to do well, but I also want them to keep making cars that interest me. Sometimes these two things conflict.

While the Emira may be a car I am interested in. Based on what we know so far, there is nothing that makes me think its going to sell well. Better than Evora? Probably, but with all the issues Lotus has (dealership network, brand cache, brand association, reliability concerns, etc.) I don't see how an mini-Evija looking, two seater Evora, with more tech and maybe a little more power is going to make much of a difference in sales numbers. I mean that sounds good to me, but is that going to make Joe-Porsche consider driving 3 hours to a Lotus dealership to try out the Emira? Doubt it. Honestly all it kind of tells me if that the Emira probably didn't receive that much of the Geely investment and is truly just a bridge car to get to the ultimate Geely goal of Lotus electric sports cars. Hope I am proven wrong.

[Ali tuck]

It’s an interesting point- Porsche is the problem (sort of) for lotus- I assume they are trying to prise them there porkers away from their blinkered brand- if that is to be the case the emira has to be better than a cayman and at the top end 120k rumoured,better than some margin than a 911- and if it is to succeed I think it has to be

[jimichanga]

Largely agree @Likuid for the UK and Europe at least but it’s easy to forget that they have identified the US and China as the key markets. We’ll see how well they do,  potential is huge certainly, big enough for it to flop in the UK and still hit their volume target with ease. What remains to be seen is whether a car intended to appeal to Americans and Chinese can also appeal to Europeans. You could argue perhaps the original NSX managed to do that to some degree but it was ultimately a sales flop in the UK, the new hybrid one (designed and built in the US) has done even worse over here.

[Likuid]

@jimichangagood point on China. That may be a market they could do well in, I don't know. As for U.S., I don't see it. U.S. seems more HP obsessed than many other countries and that's not often something Lotus offer. U.S. also has more access to the C8 as well.

Honestly, and people will hate me for saying it, but if Lotus wants to give the Emira a much better chance the top of the line HP number needs to start with a 5. However, knowing what we know so far about the powertrain that seems very unlikely, at least at launch. A $120k (USD) sports car in the U.S. not at least offering 500HP without the cache of Porsche and such a poor dealership network is going to be a very hard sell. The C8 has about 500HP and (reasonably equipped) in the 70s, 60% the possibly cost of the Emira with a mid engine V8. I mean the new 400Z is starting at $35k and will have 400HP. Emira could be 3.5x times that price with barely more HP. Sure it will be more exotic, mid-engine, etc., but I just see it being hard to sell a sub 500HP at the rumored price with all the hurdles Lotus has to overcome, especially in the U.S. Of course we here on the forum understand HP number isn't everything, but for many people its an easy way to compare cars. This is why I personally thought Lotus should have moved slightly up market with the Emira, they are trying to compete with companies that have way more resources in that bracket.

The unfortunate reality a lot of people buy sports cars as status symbols. Lotus can't scoff at those people. They need "posers" just as much, if not more, than enthusiasts, to buy their cars.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Likuid

[Pugwash]

Surely if Lotus want to significantly increase volume sales then they would be looking to attract those who would otherwise be looking at BMW / Jaguar / Audi etc?  Where else are buyers coming from?  That dictates a move away from harder core machinery.

[tim_marra]

Isn't the Hethel manufacturing capacity circa 5000 units per year? That will hardly put a dent in any of the perceived rivals output 

[ramjet]

Gotta start somewhere though.

[Evotion]

Interesting comments and all of them make sense.

It does appear that Lotus is moving out of their core value to the extent that they want to make it more appealing to the masses. That undoubtedly means that hardcore Lotus lightweight fans will not be happy BUT the rest of the buying market might be a LOT happier.

However, positioning in the middle, by not being the lightest, most agile, car and not being the most comfortable, GT-esque car they risk losing sales in both directions.

It will either be the perfect car or a failure, it comes down to your needs.

If you want a hardcore Lotus then get an Exige, there are even Cup cars out there for sale.

If you want something a bit more GT but retaining elements of Lotus DNA then this might be an amazing car.

Damn, it really stems to how it looks when revealed and those early ride impressions. I am actually a bit nervous. As stated before, even if the Emira is the best car since the last best car, it still might not be enough to attract the big numbers.

[jimichanga]

Interesting thing for me is how Toyota managed to get the Yaris GR to be the latest, must have ‘IT’ car. The Suzuki Jimny before that. Neither are aspirational brands nor the sort of thing supercar owners normally buy. However that happened, Lotus need to do what they can to create a similar ‘buzz’ around Emira. Lotus M250 had it, Evora did not.

[brightoncorgi]

Emira needs to beat the competitors when reviewers compare it to the competition during tests.  Does it beat the Cayman around their test track?  Does it sound cooler in the videos?  Does Lotus make available the most wicked looking color combo for the press?  A reviewers genuinely giddy over the new model?

Lotus could use a brand ambassador with some clout in the States.  Lotus needs a better warranty than Porsche.  Lotus has good long term residual value and that needs to used against competitors as a long term investment.  An advertising campaign that infers you not as cool if you buy a Porsche or Vette.

I see Lotus has started their certified used car program in the UK, but there's noting in the States.  Louts needs a hard push on current owners for a "offer they cannot refuse" to trade in and up.  Lotus needs to cater to the "cradle to grave" consumer.  I've been to the local dealer plenty of times where there just one car for sale...  WTF?  That's a franchise with one car?  

How does Lotus convey cool?  How do they re-assure potential new owners that they are buying reliable car that is a good long term investment.  Since this is their last ICE car, many I bet are thinking this will be a long term hold.  How does Lotus convey their brand is more like Ferrari, Aston, McLaren, than Porsche, GM, Mercedes, or Nissan?