Emira Market Watch, for discussion and to help those searching!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes I bought and sold your first Evora for just under £30k. It was 4 years old when I bought it in 2013 and just under 6 years old when I sold it in 2015. After that initial £33k hit, it never lost a penny!

[Techyd]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

It’s a bit of an odd video. We all know that HM has more cars than he can possibly drive and a steady revenue of funds to invest in more. He is probably constrained by garage space and SHMBO. It’s probably one in, one out. The Emira is his modern sports car: with only a couple of minor exceptions, he genuinely seems to be happy with it. He clearly does not use it as a daily driver.

He has decided to put the equity from his two year old manufacturer warrantied Lotus Emira together with another £50k of savings to buy a 10 year old McLaren for around £110k-£120k. Good luck to him, but that is not a situation many other Emira owners will find themselves in. He tries to justify it by implying that he has fallen out of love with the Lotus brand since Geely took over. That’s his opinion, but doesn’t make his Emira a lesser car, which needs to sold. He’s had a couple of years out of it and is in the fortunate position of being able to buy an old 650S as another fun car using the Emira proceeds plus a large chunk of cash. That McLaren is not going to be his daily driver either. He could have said that he’s selling his much admired Emira to help fund a 650S and left it at that. I guess he didn’t want to suffer any further depreciation on the Emira. As he said a 10 year old McLaren is pretty much at the bottom of that curve. When you look at the other cars in his garage, they are all effectively classic car investments.

Totally agree with all of this.

That video he did driving through France in a Spider a few months back - you could tell he was smitten, got the itch, then clearly went about getting one.  What I didn't like in this video was that he went from hating black cars to getting a black car.  The appeal of an MSO sourced car was a big lure for him - exclusivity & rarity and he's comprised on colour to get that - that's what makes this car special for him and he's in hype mode for it.  There have been a few videos of late that I think are sending him in the direction of Schmee150 - a little too much focus on exclusivity and rarity.  I still think he knows his stuff and enjoy hearing his thoughts, I just don't want his content getting a bit too ostentatious. 

[TrevS]

Have we seen any Emira's under £60k yet? I've just seen one on Autotrader with 5k miles at just under £61k.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408012392522?sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Lotus&model=Emira&postcode=cv239bu&radius=1500&fromsra

[Frimley111R]

I've been looking at all sorts of nice 'toys' and none seem to be selling but the bizarre thing is that no-one seems willing to change their prices more than a fraction. 

[Frimley111R]

3 hours ago, TrevS said:

Have we seen any Emira's under £60k yet? I've just seen one on Autotrader with 5k miles at just under £61k.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408012392522?sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Lotus&model=Emira&postcode=cv239bu&radius=1500&fromsra

Just did some simple maths on their finance pricing over 4 yrs....£17,000 in interest charges. Jesus!

[jep]

10% pa interest. You don't need to do the maths, they tell you it costs £77k over 4 years in the advert. 

I've never financed a car in my life, except a 0% deal on a shopping car in 2011. I hope I never have to.

Justin 

[C8RKH]

0% for the win, otherwise, it's just an expensive exercise. It took me 5 years to save enough cash for my first Evora, but then I wasn't desperate and wanted to make sure I'd paid off my mortgage before spending on a car.

People seem happy to put £4-8k down, and pay £400 - 900 per month on a personal lease deal and never get to actually own the car. Do the maths over 3 years or 4 years and it's a frighteningly expensive way to buy the use of a car. Then people hand it back and do the same again. There's a reason car companies like GM make more money from Financial Services products than they do from making cars.

Take an Audi Q3, probably a mid range option for most.  New price is £44,550 and current CH price is £3,534 down and 48 months at £589.12 = £28,277+£3,534 = £31,811 out on something you never own - equivalent to £60k of gross salary for higher rate tax payer.

The same car on PCP would cost you £54,755 over 4 years - £4k deposit (Audi will add £1,250 for free!   ) then 48 months at £611 then a final payment of £21k.  The only difference is then you would have a physical car you owned.

I met one guy who had a Huracan. He was paying almost £2k a month to finance the car. Would never own it. But everyone thought he was doing great. Image over substance as he was struggling with monthly cash flows.

These are bonkers amounts when you think about it, but credit crunch or not, people will pay them as they just must have the latest bling to show off.

Ever since the new pension freedoms, some people are also cashing in their 25% tax free lump sum to buy cars outright. Probably the worst financial decision you can make. You use let's say £100k to buy two cars, after 5 years they are probably worth a combined £50k. Yet that £100k left invested would be worth around £127k (5% compound) so you've actually "lost" £77k. Pure bonkers. But people are not thinking it through, they just want the bling on the drive.

Each to their own I guess, and probably one for the Financial Crisis thread, but when you see people turning up in under 5 year old £50k+ SUVs at Foodbanks to take free food away (as opposed to dropping off food) then you know people have some crazy screwed up priorities. 

To keep on topic, £17k in interest on a used Emira is just madness, even at a bargain price of £60/61k. I'd wait another 6-12 months, interest rates will be half that and the price will be £55k - so I predict a £13k total saving. Not to be sniffed at.

[pete]

You are looking at now figures. We have had our last two transits on a PCP because it was cheaper than the depreciation however the latest deal we were offered was ridiculous and we haven't now got a transit we hire one as when we need one at £55 for two days.. so far hiring about once a month 

[C8RKH]

Yup - using the figures you get now as that is what the market is asking, now.

The point I am making is that people are paying out a shit load of money, usually on the never-never, not really realising how much extra it is really costing them. Then complaining they're skint, and turning up in their £50k black holes at a food bank to get "free" food as they supposedly cannot afford to buy food. Oh the irony. Oh the misguided priorities. People are fools for sure.

 

[Frimley111R]

Just thinking about it. a £62k car is actually a £77k one with the interest. A new one is 'only' £30k more as it is on 0% interest rates.

C8 - I agree with you. If I wasn't a massive Lotus fan and petrolhead I wouldn't even think about a car of this value. I don't get people who don't really care about cars having such expensive ones though. 3-5 year old cars still look new and are a fraction of the cost.

Even for me, my BMW 120d M-Sport 2016 is a brilliant daily. I like the new M135i but I am not paying £400+ a month for a car to do essentially the same job, just a bit better!

With the Emira I'm just conscious that even quite decently low depreciation may be in the high single thousands. However, prices seem to be barely moving (for most Lotus models too). Buy for £60k, how far can they realistically drop? Who knows but they aren't flying out of showrooms (neither are any similar cars) so numbers will always be limited on the open market which help residuals...

[Bibs]

47 minutes ago, Frimley111R said:

Who knows but they aren't flying out of showrooms (neither are any similar cars) so numbers will always be limited on the open market which help residuals...

I believe they're built more Emira's already than they did Evora's. There are 3 I know of within 3 miles of where I live. 

[TrevS]

I'm not looking to upgrade to an Emira but I did do some window shopping and man maths. I'd be interested in the 2.0 auto (don't shoot me) as they seem to have some heavy discounts at the moment.

What I can't seem to work out is how some delivery miles cars which are new are classed as approved and not pre-configured? It seems you can't get the 0% finance on the approved (new) cars e.g.
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/car-locator/100_8a42f4e790a6e73b0190ac17a2745baa

Hypothetically, if you could secure a 0% deal on a new (approved) car then the finance option wouldn't be horrendous. I’m guessing something like these figures as a guess.

Lotus Emira 2.0 turbo - £68,990
Deposit/Part ex - £40k

Balance - £28,990
HP over 48 months at 0% = £603pm
PCP over 48 months at 0% with £15k balloon = £291pm

 

 

[exeterjeep]

I see that Hendy Southampton have a number of virtually new i4's starting at just under £68k!! Looks like a good reduction on the 'list' price??

[Frimley111R]

Cross posted from SELOC (it was my post):

This is odd, or maybe I can't get my head around it (PCP with £20k deposit, 4yrs):

New Emira
£90k
£589 p/m
Balloon £41k

Used Emira
£63k
£549 p/m
Balloon £34k

(New one on 0% finance).

It seems like a deposit plus similar monthlies gives me a new car that's worth £10k more at the end. That can't be right?

And related

Exige 410
£65k
£555 p/m
Balloon £35k

However, I think the 410 will hold its value better
Maybe.
 

[KennyN]

0% on the new Emira and ?% APR on the used?

[Whitey]

Correct. What you have to remember on a used pcp  deal is that the interest rate, whatever it is, is charged on the whole of the balloon for the 4 year term as well as on the reducing balance that your monthly payments are going towards.

If you get a 0% pcp deal on a new car then it is quite simply the balance, after the deposit and balloon that you are paying back over the 4 year term - which is why a 0% pcp deal on a new car is so attractive against a used one.

Frimley- got your deposit down yet ? 😁

 

 

[Frimley111R]

No. It's a nightmare. Simply finding a spare Saturday to see/drive anything is the one of the many challenges. And I'm torn between a new Emira and a Exige 410, with pros and cons of each. And a used Emira.

 

They are both big amounts of money for a normal guy like me and so it's not just buying a car, it's making a financial decision based in large part on residuals. A used Emira, new Emira and 410 may have quite differing residuals that could vary by £10k plus. I can see a 410 holding its value best but the Emira still having strong residuals. You're guess is as good as mine though.

 

I loved my old 111R S/C but a drive of a V6 Exige (not the best one) left me feeling a bit cold. Instead of light, nimble and fast it felt heavy and not that quick. Although a ride in a 410 was like being shot out of a cannon! 

 

I sold my Elise and had an Evora S IPS because at least I used it all year round but it never felt like a 'hoon car', just too lovely to thrash like I stole it. The Elise was the only car I ever came home from work and wanted to go out in immediately but I don't like the styling of the Mk3 Elise, looks a bit soft to me.

 

But, the Elise/Exige is an old chassis/car fundamentally and I wonder if a manual Emira might be the best option now. A bit of a mix between the two. And a better place for the V6. And its a proper car inside.

 

I need to drive one but I need a dealer/seller who is bothered about selling one and so far they have been a bit elusive. 

 

First world problems eh? Lol

[Nick Sticks]

Some bargains to be had at the moment on the Lotus website.

[Frimley111R]

Off to drive an Emira and LF1 at Hendys next Saturday...

[C8RKH]

Congratulations @Frimley111R on your new LF1 purchase. A fantastic car, hand made by the boys from Lotus Motorsport and a quite a rare site too. One for the future for sure.

[Frimley111R]

Haha, let's hope it's that easy! I like the LF1 but my previous experience of the gearchange in a V6S was not a good one, maybe this is better. Still struggling with the fact that I could have a new Emira and end up with a car worth more after 4yrs than a 410 or used Emira or LF1, despite paying the same. I appreciate they are quite different but...

[C8RKH]

If I've read that correctly you're assuming the Emira will depreciate slowly?  I think the Emira, based on threads on here and speaking to owners, will spend more time at the dealers. Have more issues. And will ultimately depreciate faster that then the LF1.

[Frimley111R]

I'm not bothered by a few people's issues tbh. I had an Evora S and that had lots of trim issues and still held is price amazingly well.  

See my post above relating to balloon payments. That's the challenge. 

[superdavelotus]

First sub £60K Emira in UK 2022 Green Lotus Emira 3.5 V6 First Edition Coupe 2dr Petrol Manual Euro 6 (404 ps) for sale for £59,895 in WITNEY, OXFORDSHIRE (autotrader.co.uk)

It's already been mentioned in above comments and has a few extra toys! Not my colour otherwise I would have bought it! Hoping to get one before next spring.

[exeterjeep]

Text in ad says £63995 ono, so £59895 looks good value? But you can get an almost new i4 for £69k.