Price increase

[Al_C]

So am I right in thinking if you apply this price rise announced across onto the entry level cars that a base model i4 is going to effectively rise in price to a similar level as a launch Edition car was originally?

 

So in my case like many others, by being an early deposit holder but not taking a launch Edition car and instead waiting for an i4 base model at £60k, all I’ve done is lose circa 2 years waiting to then buy a car for the same  price I could have 2 years earlier (launch Edition car) but with less kit.

 

So therefore on that basis when I add my options some of which are on the launch Edition car, my base car is actually going to end up costing me more than the launch Edition car I never took as I waited patiently.

 

Way to go Lotus - how to rip off your most brand loyal customers the early deposit holders.

 

Waiting for an email response but can’t see anyway I will not be cancelling

[simonb]

40 minutes ago, Al_C said:

So am I right in thinking if you apply this price rise announced across onto the entry level cars that a base model i4 is going to effectively rise in price to a similar level as a launch Edition car was originally?

 

It is a £6K increase

Lotus stubbornly are not releasing a "base" price (for the car coming Q3 '23!) but if that is the increase, then £66K plus the options you want (rather than "all in") probably hits £73k, the old LE price

[Simon Bateman]

19 hours ago, simonb said:

the MD statement was

 

 

---

I commit to you that these costs will not be passed on to you, the price you are being quoted will be the price you pay for your emira. That is a promise

That video has the makings of being a classic.....for all the wrong reasons.

With a clearly blatant disregard for what was originally said, maybe a career in politics would be better suited 

[exeterjeep]

19 minutes ago, Simon Bateman said:

career in politics would be better suited 

think Scotland is looking for a new leader.

Will be interesting to see (hopefully in the next few months...years..) what the base prices will be for a V6 or i4. As a manual V6 would still be of interest to get the last manual petrol Lotus.

[Jack Stone]

Maybe it's not the high inflation, energy crisis, supply-chain woes and Ukraine conflict etc and their commensurate impact on cost of production that's to blame for the Emira pricing u-turn.

Perhaps its growing concern at Hethel Towers about potentially spiralling costs from warranty claims... 😟

[Trevsked]

Lotus have shown the Tesla route for customer purchasing which works fine for daily cars but cars purchased with a passion, the buying experience is diluted and I don’t think works. This is part of the upset I would say. Then Lotus decide to appeal to a wider market but under deliver in terms of quality and customer service then increased the the cost of disappointment :-). It’s not like the story gets any better, just keeps giving customers more reasons to cancel.

I do think Emira could be a great car, after all it’s built on a proven base, all they had to do was change the body style, make it a little more useable as a daily and instal some modern reliable infotainment. It’s fair to say they launched into a difficult period and £2k uplift if I understand correctly, isn’t a large amount in my view, but it does represent the last straw for many. 
 

I ask myself, would I order another and if they sort out the various minor issues experienced by some and start to deliver cars in a timely fashion at a known cost, then possibly. 
 

Odd, as when old Lotus had no money and were the butt of most car enthusiasts jibes, they were capable of delivering fabulous cars when they said they would and at a cost that was quoted. Expansion really hasn’t gone well has it.

 

Trevor.

[Frickin_idiot]

A well balanced view and we are aligned on a number of points. There is a lot of talent at Lotus and undoubtedly Windle is under a lot of pressure to deliver.

 

Would I have done things differently in his position? Possibly, but that is only with the benefit of hindsight. I imagine when he took the role that he never thought that he’d have to comprehend with part supply issues or rampant inflation.

[Bazza 907]

Trevor

Agree entirely. My concerns surfaced when Matt W started talking about "Product". A lotus car shouldn't have been described as "product" by the CEO..

[Jack Stone]

Making unconditional public promises to customers (on YouTube!) about pricing guarantees, as many economies were enduring inflation levels not seen for many years, wasn’t the smartest move by the MD.

[Del Lardo]

1 hour ago, Trevsked said:

Lotus have shown the Tesla route for customer purchasing which works fine for daily cars but cars purchased with a passion, the buying experience is diluted and I don’t think works. This is part of the upset I would say. Then Lotus decide to appeal to a wider market but under deliver in terms of quality and customer service then increased the the cost of disappointment :-). It’s not like the story gets any better, just keeps giving customers more reasons to cancel.

I do think Emira could be a great car, after all it’s built on a proven base, all they had to do was change the body style, make it a little more useable as a daily and instal some modern reliable infotainment. It’s fair to say they launched into a difficult period and £2k uplift if I understand correctly, isn’t a large amount in my view, but it does represent the last straw for many. 
 

I ask myself, would I order another and if they sort out the various minor issues experienced by some and start to deliver cars in a timely fashion at a known cost, then possibly. 
 

Odd, as when old Lotus had no money and were the butt of most car enthusiasts jibes, they were capable of delivering fabulous cars when they said they would and at a cost that was quoted. Expansion really hasn’t gone well has it.

 

Trevor.

£6k price increase. 

[Trevsked]

Thanks for the correction, that’s substantial.

 

Trevor.

[Simon Bateman]

My own view on this is that Lotus are still making an acceptable margin on the V6, based on the original list price.

I'd be surprised if they are paying Toyota more for the V6 engine than they are for the AMG unit.

I could be completely wrong, but maybe this is more about the I4 margins in the longer term.

They could also be realising there will be additional costs as a result of the development programme for the 2.0L car and they would be slaughtered if they now offered the two cars for effectively the same or similar price.

[Jack Stone]

£6k rise is roughly in line with the UK CPIH inflation rate for the 12 months to Jan 2023 (8.8%)

[MJON]

14 hours ago, Simon Bateman said:

My own view on this is that Lotus are still making an acceptable margin on the V6, based on the original list price.

Not sure how you can believe that, they will have had considerable cost increases since the launch price announcement whichever way you cut it.

[C8RKH]

I think people are missing the point - no one is doubting that costs may have increased, the point is that a commitment was made and does not appear to be being honoured. The rest is just an attempt to justify the price increase and the poor consistency in comms and treatment of deposit holders for the "product".

[jerzybondov]

As a Lotus owner, but not a prospective Emira customer - my unemotional objective take is that the price rise was probably to be expected (and is reasonable), however - like much of the comms experienced by Emira deposit holders so far, what has fallen short is the standard of communications from the company and the way in which things have been done. 

Looking after your customers with respect, transparency and honesty isn't rocket science - but Lotus 2.0 seem to be making a right hash of it. Who on earth have they been hiring? Hard to believe this is a strategy from the top - feels more to me like a company that's simply mismanaged (at least on the customer service side of things, if not the design/development/manufacturing) 🤔

[Rambo]

23 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I think people are missing the point - no one is doubting that costs may have increased, the point is that a commitment was made and does not appear to be being honoured. The rest is just an attempt to justify the price increase and the poor consistency in comms and treatment of deposit holders for the "product".

I couldn't agree more. Promises are promises and no one should renege on that.

(Unless you're SNP 🤔)

[Simon Bateman]

1 hour ago, MJON said:

Not sure how you can believe that, they will have had considerable cost increases since the launch price announcement whichever way you cut it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's certainly not clear cut. 

The prices of the two models have clearly been set by market. Probably Cayman S (for the 2.0 litre) and GTS for the V6. I don't for one minute think they get the cost price and then just apply a margin.....and bingo, it matches the competition.

The V6 is now so long in the tooth that I think it's basically 2 engines back from what Toyota are using themselves. It's reasonable to me that the new hand-built high power AMG unit, is costing Lotus the same or more than the Toyota unit.

Clearly the 4k gap between the two Lotus models is more about where they sit in the market and in terms of buyer perception of a fair cost uplift between them.

I'd be surprised if many people on here expect Lotus to make the same margin on both models.

[Al_C]

20 hours ago, Jack Stone said:

£6k rise is roughly in line with the UK CPIH inflation rate for the 12 months to Jan 2023 (8.8%)

This misses the point though. Had they said the price was subject to change and inflation then I wouldn’t have an issue, however this wasn’t said and you even had Matt Windle all over youtube making promises that the price would not change despite rising costs.

Had I known the price I signed up to wasn’t fixed and subject to rise I may have chosen to have a Launch Edition car and been driving that car now as an early depositer. Instead I will wait around three years for my base spec car and probably pay more for less once I’ve added a black pack and some nice wheels.

Of course I can’t even say that for certain as they won’t tell us what the price will even be for the car now which only means they are leaving the door open for further increases.

Advertise a car starting at £60k take deposits and then more than 18 months later after taking deposits say you don’t know what the price will be but it will be much higher than we said, and in addition you will have to wait much longer than we said.

That level of treatment to your customers just cannot be justified. No problem with a price rise and a customer placing a deposit today then paying a higher price in full knowledge, but a deposit should be price protected and thus not change unless you state clearly otherwise (and not promising no change as Lotus did).

 

 

[Jack Stone]

 

On 11/01/2023 at 17:33, LOTUSMAN33 said:

1 hour ago, Al_C said:

This misses the point though. Had they said the price was subject to change and inflation then I wouldn’t have an issue, however this wasn’t said and you even had Matt Windle all over youtube making promises that the price would not change despite rising costs.

Had I known the price I signed up to wasn’t fixed and subject to rise I may have chosen to have a Launch Edition car and been driving that car now as an early depositer. Instead I will wait around three years for my base spec car and probably pay more for less once I’ve added a black pack and some nice wheels.

Of course I can’t even say that for certain as they won’t tell us what the price will even be for the car now which only means they are leaving the door open for further increases.

Advertise a car starting at £60k take deposits and then more than 18 months later after taking deposits say you don’t know what the price will be but it will be much higher than we said, and in addition you will have to wait much longer than we said.

That level of treatment to your customers just cannot be justified. No problem with a price rise and a customer placing a deposit today then paying a higher price in full knowledge, but a deposit should be price protected and thus not change unless you state clearly otherwise (and not promising no change as Lotus did).

 

 

You've quoted me out of context. Read my earlier post further up about the stupidity of the MD making promises he was obviously not going to be able to honour 🙃 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Jack Stone
Typo

[Al_C]

Sorry wasn’t trying to have a go at you, and completely agree with views on MD.

I’m a grumpy man at the moment over this whole thing!

[simonb]

I am sure CEO made a statement that was endorsed at the time; but it is not "his" money, and ultimately not a guarantee he could warrant personally

[jep]

It's a sad situation all round. Making sports cars is a very slippery gig. The problem is, we can't trust what the CEO/MD says now. 

That makes a tough job even tougher.

Justin

 

[Bee]

If Lotus - as a whole - were happy to have the CEO make said statement 'I commit to you that these costs will not be passed on to you, the price you are being quoted will be the price you pay for your Emira. That is a promise.' then they have to ensure it is honoured, or raise serious question marks over his (which would be disrespectful and unfair), and their own, integrity. Yes, other car manufacturers raise prices for preorders, but I can't think of an example where they promised not to, and then did!

 

Given the promise/commitment already made, an announcement should have been made much sooner, r.e. the increased pricing, and then applied to those ordering from that point.

[Vipers]

Certainly not great PR, I received the mail whilst I wait for my i4, ordered at launch, I was surprised that the correspondence didn't mention how deposit holders stand, hence my trip to here but it looks like I will have the pay the new price, that is a terrible way to look after customers in my view.

I sell Highend products and we would never treat our customers like this, over the last year we have been hit with big prices from our brands but we have honoured every price the product was ordered at, that is the correct way to treat a customer of luxury products in my view.

Lotus really should do the same and give an indication that prices will rise from a certain date and that any orders placed before then will be at the existing price, that is the way we run our business and I would have thought that is the honourable way to run any business, especially in this day and age where customer service is more important than ever.

Saying that I still want my Emira so will continue to wait patiently and hope we don't get hit by another price rise before it arrives.