Is electric really the answer?

[Escape]

Very interesting article Tony and no argument from me on the huge environmental impact producing cars in general and especially EVs because of the batteries. And yes, it is worrying that we've become so dependent on China (not just for batteries and semiconductors) and the West just seems to accept it.

My point was and is that from on operational point of view, the production of hydrogen is to energy intensive to be applicable on a large scale. I know there are some small scale successful projects, like hydrogen powered tugs in the port of Antwerp, using hydrogen byproducts from chemical plants. That is a sure win/win! Just like LPG, but for some reason that was never credited or promoted as the low CO2 fuel it is.

[C8RKH]

@Escape the discovery of natural hydrogen deposits trapped underground is hugely significant and could be a real game changer for the world, and for Europe given the discovery's in Portugal, Spain and Southern France.  This is piped directly from the ground and is formed just above the earth's crust by water reacting with minerals. As such, it is constantly reforming, albeit over thousands of years.

 

[Escape]

I haven't heard of any viable means of tapping into those deposits. If it possible, with limited environmental impact, it would indeed be a game changer. I also agree that to drive innovation in that area, hydrogen as a fuel needs to be on the table. It's always wise to keep options open and stimulate research in different areas. Putting all our eggs in the EV basket can not end well for sure.

[C8RKH]

The means exist, however in Portugal there is huge local opposition which is stopping it, same in Spain.

As usual, people want to save the planet as long as the saving is done somewhere else. Like the lithium or cobalt mining for EV batteries, or the extraction of Hydrogen etc.  

Too many people on the planet. Too many selfish gits amongst them. Ergo - the Planet is doomed.

[Escape]

I wanted to like the above post, as I agree. But there's really not much to like...

And I don't see anything being done about the population getting out of control. 😞

[cor]

we are trying to engineer ourselves out of these troubles but my opinion is we are only making things worse by producing even more.

In a few generations there will be less people on earth fore sure.

The fact that in my younger life nobody worried about these problems, now we are getting more and more aware.

A couple of generations further our childrens children will be doing the right thing whatever that may be.

[pete]

Interesting looking programme on tomorrow night bbc1 at 8

[Kimbers]

Well you have no choice now, There's no hydrogen, fuel cells, sythetic fuels or any other developments. According to the BBC It's only electric, nothing else.

"At the risk of infuriating all you petrolheads out there, let's just get it out there - electric cars are the future.

They are clean, quiet, fun to drive and help us tackle the biggest challenge of our era, climate change."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66222554

[Escape]

And all the electricity is green, right...

Seriously! https://dailytimes.com.pk/1115858/scotland-cuts-down-16-million-trees-to-develop-wind-farms/

😞

[exeterjeep]

On 24/07/2023 at 11:54, pete said:

interesting looking programme on tomorrow night bbc1 at 8

watched it, (wife refused to - she hates EVs.) Sure he said at one point charging EV was cheaper than petrol, but he did not mention that fast super charging is much more than plugging at home , plus the cost of all those coffees/snacks while waiting.

The expert seemed convinced that 2030 ban will stay as per M Gove yesterday as well. 

No mention of the costs by the Welsh guy converting the classics. 

No mention of battery life/re-cycling, and all those extra features that aren't really needed that will cost a lot to fix when they fail.

Also new dangers...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280

But this latest incident has also raised issues surrounding the risks of transporting electric vehicles.

 

[madmax]

Wasn't he the guy too that was alleged to have been flown to Alicante by the BBC for a few minutes of 'News' on how hot it is over there?

At the end of the programme he did point at the camera and suggest that it was 'You' who have to make changes. Clearly he doesn't think his flights to Europe should be a cause for any of this worry.

I am certainly getting cynical in my dotage with all this hype and hypocrisy and the programme seemed typically light on real detail.

I liked the VW Beetle article but there was little or no detail as to cost, range or further development. Interesting to see a Testarossa and a Jensen Interceptor going under the  knife - I'm not sure it's the way to go for classics - personally I prefer the solution being provided by the likes of Coryton and their sustainable fuels created from vegetable waste matter etc - they didn't even get a mention.

On balance, the programme didn't seem to think that the target date of 2030 for the end of ICE was feasible, and looking at the various challenges the industry as a whole faces with electrification, I'm not sure it's anywhere near - real pie in the sky for your average commuter or family guy - please don't take offence at the term guy - I don't mean it to be derogatory, just inclusive - it's getting harder these days to choose the right words and many people just don't bother anymore for fear of being shot/shut down 😀

[JimmytheTurbo]

I thought this was interesting...just dont buy an EV at least not new...but you wouldnt want to buy used either.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by JimmytheTurbo

[Bibs]

My Kia was on a lease at about £400/month and leases cover depreciation plus a small profit for the leasing company. This meant that they expected the £40k car to drop around £9k over 2 years, 20k miles.

2 year old Kia e-Niro 4+'s are up for sale for £18k, so a £22k drop. They've lost quite a lot of money on them and I'd imagine this is why the current lease cost for the same car, same terms has pretty much doubled. 

[pete]

Do the lease company suffer that loss or the customer? 

[Bibs]

Lease company. My costs were fixed throughout the lease which is one of the attractions. The other is the tax relief as I'm Ltd & VAT registered. 

[Rambo]

Electric cars - what they really mean for you (BBC1)

Anyone watch it?

Every argument the presenters served up only emphasised the technology isn’t ready, the infrastructure doesn’t exist and the green propaganda is bogus.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12337927/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-nights-TV-charge-33million-electric-cars-44-000-chargers.html

 

 

[Kimbers]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

My Kia was on a lease at about £400/month and leases cover depreciation plus a small profit for the leasing company. This meant that they expected the £40k car to drop around £9k over 2 years, 20k miles.

2 year old Kia e-Niro 4+'s are up for sale for £18k, so a £22k drop. They've lost quite a lot of money on them and I'd imagine this is why the current lease cost for the same car, same terms has pretty much doubled. 

Wendys Sportage HEV 3 costs her £250 a month on 3 year PCP. Over her first 4000 miles shes done 52.6mpg. Now, yes I got the vehicle at a great price and traded in a Citroen with £4k equity so s decent deposit, but that's cheap motoring and she does over 550 miles to a tank so doesn't need to stop every 200 miles to charge!

[pete]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

Lease company. My costs were fixed throughout the lease which is one of the attractions. The other is the tax relief as I'm Ltd & VAT registered. 

But means you have no equity at the end of it

[Bibs]

No, it's a lease, an extended hire. I got Corp Tax relief on the whole amount and half the VAT back each quarter. With the fuel savings as well, it was costing me about £100/month in real terms. 

[pete]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/ultra-fast-niobium-batteries-boast-6-min-charge-for-lotus-elise-based-ev/

[Chillidoggy]

It’s high time you got off the pot, and bought an electric car. 

[punky]

That'll sort the environment out!

[mg4lotus]

I've seen one or two articles headlines mention an Elise based EV but I also recall that the type 135 being described as a similar size to the Emira. Is it click baiting or fantasy journalism or what?

[Bibs]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/nyobolt-presents-reborn-lotus-elise-s1-ev-concept-goodwood

[pete]

https://insideevs.com/news/678414/chinese-ev-conversion-kit-vw-beetle/