Urgent cry for help

[unity1]

My car started to misfire with slight blue smoke. Found if I kept the revs constant it eould limp along but have heavy missfire on acceleration and wouldnt tick over well. Now turns over doesn't really start.

I'm supposed to be taking my son to his prom on the 20th so need to get running in two weeks.

I'm in the east Essex region, anyone local or recommend who can assist?

Someone from a local car group who was following me when it started suggested valve oil seal.

[jonwat]

11 hours ago, unity1 said:

Someone from a local car group who was following me when it started suggested valve oil seal.

No valve oil seals fitted, misfiring on acceleration sounds more like the ignition system breaking down with the increased compression.

A Google sear for East Sussex lotus found these 

[exeterjeep]

How long have they been doing Lotus as most of the 'new' ones don't want to get involved with older models. Surely most be some sort of Lotus specialist about.

[Sparky]

Need to clarify 'misfire'.  If you get it started, does it sound like it's running on all 4 at idle?  

Go for simple stuff first - plugs and leads.  Get it running by whatever means, pull each lead and see what difference it makes - which cylinder isn't pulling its weight?  Pull the plugs and check their gap/state and report back; maybe replace as they're cheap.  Maybe get hold of a simple inline device that you can fit between lead and plug that will show you it's firing.  Locate a compression tester (very simple stuff) and report findings.

Thereafter it gets a little more complex with the idiosyncrasies of the electronic ignition, but any competent mechanic - not necessarily a Lotus expert - should be able to isolate the misfire.

[scottytwo]

When mine started to misfire, it was coil packs. Red top ones sorted it.

[Sparky]

I'm assuming this one is a Carb Turbo; if so, not applicable.

[Erikl]

Folks can help a lot more if you share the year and spec

[Bibs]

Car: Unity1 89 Esprit Turbo

[unity1]

Ok guy I've done some diag today abs spoken to Barry Ely and Gerald Turner who are the 'localish' specialist.

 

Checked oil and coolant. Both fine no sign of frothy coffee etc.

 

Removed and checked plugs, all a little sooty but looked fairly normal. 2 was a little wet but had been cranking it over.

Loosened oil cap see if getting blow back on crank. Nothing.

Compression test all a bit low

125

125

120

112

 

Discounted fuel line to regulator and then to carbs. Fuel pumping fine.

AA did check spark with inline and fine although I have ordered some myself to check again.

The car crank normally doesn't sound un even just no detonation. 

Tried a squirt of easy start still no detonation.

 

Compression is low but with those reading surely it would run. Not well with low power but I'll be honest I would still tempt driving my son to his prom in two weeks.

When cranking with plugs out I could smell fuel so have to assume fuel supply. 

 

I've not got to check timing yet but will put a strobe on 1 and look at tdc markers. I assume it's normal to need to remove the inlet duct to access and see the tdc. I've now only had an hour sleep since 6am yesterday so probably wait until tomorrow.

Now what was really interesting is Gerald asked if I put vpower in which I did and it was shortly after misfire and smoke started. What he said is he has had several cases where vpower diesel was put in instead of petrol as the pumps are still red vpower but has diesel on the side . Cant recall if the nozrl was grey or green. Usual situation of talking to someone about the car while doing it. Now I don't this I did this but facts mostly fit as he said it would still run rough with smoke in a hot engine for 5 if not 10 miles which was also the case but not fire at all when cold.

[drdoom]

Suppose it not difficult to smell whether fuel contaminated with diesel, no? Strongly tilt in the ignition direction on this however quite imperative to confirm nothing deeply amiss with carbs or other fuel system components. As long ago taught to me if there's fuel, spark and mechanicals are in order the t lump will run. KISS principle worthwhile in resolving this mystery.

Cheers 

[Painterdave]

Stick your finger in it diesel doesn't evaporate off like petrol it leaves oil ,petrol drys 

It will misfire and smoke

[unity1]

Now I've finally had some sleep and got some time to play. I'm airing/hoping on the wrong fuel although are somewhat concerned about the low compression however my priority has to be to get the car at least running so I can get to take my boy to his prom. Once thats done I can 'afford' to be off the road for more serious amount of work.

I have tried to smell the fuel and although the tanks are connected would say the standard petrol smell if far stronger on the passenger side that the drivers and does smell different (its the drivers I put the vpower in and would only be 50% of volume at most).

 

Please offer comment although a possible course of action

Access and remove  TDC cover pale

Manual turn engine over to TDC and verify pully dots align (just in case belt skipped a tooth)

Connect strobe to cyl.1 crank and verify ignition on TDC (actually should it be 8 deg off but then the engine will be cold so not sure)

Remove the fuel pump fuse, and somehow drain/syringe out the fuel from the carb float chamber. Directly put fresh fuel in carbs and see if I get detonation.

• - Is it possible to gain access to the float chamber, Looking at the DHLA 45 exploded diagram it seems the top cover can come off but am I likely to cause more issues by doing this,  is there something to look out for or a recommend order. I have googled and looked a several YT videos but they dont show detail of removing the top cover or going into a full strip down which is not what I want.
• - Failing that any suggestions on other way to remove the fuel from the carb without taking them off the car/stripping. I could crank it with the fuel pump fuse out but would I not just end up with the fuel flooding and sitting in the cylinders/exhaust anyway and it wont detonate and burn off.

If I do get detonation and I really hope so then I  can remove the hose from the fuel filter and pump out the fuel. How I capture/store and get rid of it is then another problem.

 

I'm going to see if I can get some 'suitable' plugs locally and order some from SJ for next week. I still have my old plugs that were replaced as a service item. I've not even done 600 miles over the 18 month since the current plugs were put in along with new leads. after Barry Ely had rebuilt and replaced the distributor including cap and arm 

[Painterdave]

If the fuel feels oily it probably has got diesel in it diesel and petrol do mix but they burn differently so that'll make it misfire spit backfire run generally rough and smoke but I would check the  timing cam belt air box on it will spit fire old petrol out new in it will wash it self out 

[unity1]

7 minutes ago, Painterdave said:

If the fuel feels oily it probably has got diesel in it diesel and petrol do mix but they burn differently so that'll make it misfire spit backfire run generally rough and smoke but I would check the  timing cam belt air box on it will spit fire old petrol out new in it will wash it self out 

Ok so you don't think its worthwhile getting the old fuel out of the carbs.
I've dropped the undertray and will move to TDC and check pulleys.
 

Also now considering clamp off and remove feed to fuel pump, put a temp length of fuel hose from pump to a container of fresh fuel so it will at least start to mix in some good stuff. I desperately want to hear an attempted detonation to direct down fuel or alternative route.
 

[Escape]

A couple of thoughts:

- the inline spark testers sometimes light up even if the spark itself is to weak to actually ignite the mixture. You can take out a plug (or use a spare plug) on a lead and ground it to check for spark.

- fowled plugs sometimes don't recover, even if they look fine after cleaning. As above, cheap enough to replace or swap for your old set just to check.

- the top of the carbs comes of easily enough, to drain and refill the chambers. Just be careful with the gasket so it can be reused.

I'd try with different plugs and fresh fuel. A timing problem is more likely to result in misfires or backfires, rather than a completely dead engine. That is typically due to ignition ignition, especially as you've already tried a squirt of easy start to compensate for a fueling problem.

Good luck and keep us posted, we all want you to drive your boy to the prom. 😉

Filip

[jonwat]

20 hours ago, unity1 said:

he has had several cases where vpower diesel was put in instead of petrol as the pumps are still red vpower

I nearly did that last weekend, what stopped me was the diesel nozel is too large to go into the petrol filler, although I was in a 2014 car so that may not apply to yours. Yes, the carb float chamber tops are easily removed & replaced by releasing the screws. The engine will run fine if the belt has jumped a tooth or two, more than that & it won't run at all. It could also explain your low compression. It does sound like you've filled it with diesel so get the carb float chamber tops off, suck out whatever is in there, refill them with clean petrol & retry starting her. Good luck & let us know how you get on. 

[unity1]

I manually cranked and the IN/EX dots more or less align at TDC, see images.

I did remove the carb top and the plenum so I could lift them out. Drew out the fuel, there was some specks of crud in it. In the first carb there were flacks of the red plenum paint in there so can only assume it got in when Barry rebuilt and installed them although I would then question how much of a removal clean and rebuild of the carbs was actually done but thats by the by. I cleaned the out anyway.

I didnt see signs of excess oil in the turbo either, wheel span quite nicely.

Carbs had 45ml of fuel in the chambers so guess thats whet they are 45's. I put 45ml of fresh fuel in each and refitted with fuel feed disconnected, plugs in etc

I now have some detonation but not quite enough to catch. Still some smoke and at least seems a step forward. It is however late and to avoid annoying the neighbours I've stopped will try again in the morning. 

[Escape]

Timing is perfect, so that's a big relief.

Just to be clear, what have you done on the ignition side? With fresh fuel, compression and timing spot on only ignition remains. Check for spark and replace the plugs (even with old ones) if you haven't yet.

 

[unity1]

New plugs, inline testers and spark strength tester arrived. I've uploaded some video to a playlist of whats going on. They are still processing so you may not be able to see them all. the last one is most telling. So far it will detonate most of the time and run but not idle additionally I need to tweak/blip throttle to keep it running as long as possible but always eventually cuts outs. Too much throttle and it cuts out, nothing at all and it dies.

The smoke is still present although I guess will take some running to clear if it is diesel but really have no idea. It has a bit of a look of steam about it to me. Just as a guess I would have thought it would be more black if burning diesel. Steam is usually coolant and likely head gasket correct?

 

[Sparky]

Turn the idle screw in as far as necessary for it to achieve its own idle.  At least that'll get it running for a while.

Right now, my money is on damaged distributor pickup wire, or even seized weights throwing the timing way out.

Ah, hang on - have you tried it with the turbo pipe disconnected from the air box?

[Painterdave]

It sounds as if it's oiling its plugs to me random misfire smoke pick the revs up a bit if it will

Clean the plugs and try again try and pick the raps up as soon as it starts if you can

[unity1]

Continued firing and idle seems to have cleared out most of the smoke. However with or after throttle you get the 'pfft' of a back or maybe misfire. I also see some smoke from around the turbo/exhaust joint. This could just be burning off some over spill from last few days or escape. I dont think the turbo is an issue here or at least not a big one due to the misfire. 

The cause of the misfire is the main concern.

Now I could connect up the fuel feeds and see if the smoke etc returns which would prove the fuel caused the issue or proceed to drain the tanks put a good amount of fresh fuel in them and run it for a while to see if it clears up. 

[Painterdave]

If you're not sure that it's got diesel in the fuel I would be worried about keep trying to start it if it is coughing up engine oil because for me that's a little bit of a red flag and I don't want you to damage something worse by keep trying to start it you might want to take some advice you know

[unity1]

1 hour ago, Sparky said:

Turn the idle screw in as far as necessary for it to achieve its own idle.  At least that'll get it running for a while.

Right now, my money is on damaged distributor pickup wire, or even seized weights throwing the timing way out.

Ah, hang on - have you tried it with the turbo pipe disconnected from the air box?

The turbo is currently disconnected from the air box so I could see the timing marks now I have an idle. Would that cause is an issue ?

[Painterdave]

Spark is your best man for knowledge on that car but obviously he's only just out of hospital so I don't know how much time he's got to talk you through things