Bleeding the Clutch

[Vanya]

Strange, I went for another drive and there was no graunching. I think this time I was deliberately pushing the pedal further to the floor though.  But if I see any Hercules types, I'll invite him into my garage

[MrDangerUS]

Bleeding the clutch slave cylinder without any helper can be done upon an installation of the stainless Speed Bleeder, P/N SB3824SS , (3/8" X 24, 1.29" long), 

and voila!

One man operation.

http://www.speedbleeder.com/

 

Also, they work like a charm for brake calipers.

I like stainless SB-s because they never seize.

Speed Bleeder Sizes

 

Depending on your brake system and year, bleeders may be different. There is no "one fits all" part. It would be prudent to remove one of your old ones and measure the thread, pitch and length.

 

Also,

I have replaced the OEM clutch master cylinder with 0.625" piston diameter Wilwood part. The clutch pedal effort has diminished to the acceptable (easy) level!

Edited May 30, 2014 by MrDangerUS

[Vanya]

Dude that thing looks awesome! Thanks for the tip.

[leeds1972]

hi,i had the exact same problem on a matra murena a few years back and thawt the slave was knackered.so I bought a new one at 70 quid and guess what .......I had the same prob with that.so after talking to a few people in the motor trade I bought a tool for 20 quid called I think,an eezi bleed made by gunsons.it operates off of air from the spare tyre.you don't press the pedal or anything and it connects to the res as well.and it did the job in about 5 mins.if this is any help ? cheers,steve

[red vtec]

Yep I used an eezi bleed, makes it an easy job.

[Shanesprit]

Mine was a real pig to bleed, had the same issues as you and my master, slave and pipe were all new of replaced because I was getting peed off with the bleeding issue, but it was just an air in fluid issue, my guess is the air gets trapped in the upside-down U bend on the master cylinder

3 to 5 pumps hold the pedal down and tighten the bleed nipple, check the reservoir and repeat,

Don't shake the fluid or even pour from height as this gets air in the fluid

[Qavion]

Thanks, gents. Problem fixed 

 

It really was a two man job, but I've ordered a "speedbleeder" for next time. If it goes well, I'll order 6 more for the brakes (I have two bleed nipples per caliper on my front brakes (c/o a PNM Engineering upgrade).

 

Much appreciated!

Cheers

Ian.

[eeyoreish]

Lotus Esprit World says the dimension should be 9~12mm for the Renault box, however, the S4 manual says 12.5mm. Does anyone have Chapter QC of the paper manual for the early series Stevens cars? If so, what should the dimension be for the SE?

 

Thanks

Cheers

Ian.

I'm a bit confused!

I have a '90 Stevens so a renault gearbox but my clutch fork dimension was set at 22mm, which I understood was for the earlier citroen box? It was like that when I got it and is like that now after I replaced my master, slave and added a braided hose.

Everything seems to work OK so I'm reluctant to meddle but I'm wondering what if any problems this could be causing me?

Clutch is better since the system overhaul but still a little heavy and needs to be pushed to the floor to ensure no graunching of gears! Crunched second a couple of times so thinking there maybe some air left in there.

[Barrykearley]

Herewith the answer

Treat yourself to a full forum upgrade and you can get all the manuals etc you need

Are you absolutely sure which gearbox you have - I think they used both......

[mdw]

90s stevens will be the Renault box.

[eeyoreish]

I'm assuming Renault box based on age of the car... Any way to instantly identify them? Did all citroen have inboard brakes??

I can only assume that adjusting this to 12.5mm will result in not enough push/travel of the fork. Confused!!?

[Barrykearley]

Reverse is on the right hand side for Citroen based - reading from the manual

Reverse on left hand side for the Renault - certainly ties up with mine

That's got to be the easiest way of identifying!!!'

[Qavion]

Do you have the VIN number of your car?

[eeyoreish]

Reverse is on the right hand side for Citroen based - reading from the manual

Reverse on left hand side for the Renault - certainly ties up with mine

That's got to be the easiest way of identifying!!!'

My reverse is left and back, so Renault by that measure.

It would help me fathom this out if you could measure the length of your actuating rod. Thinking that maybe mine was replaced in the past...

Do you have the VIN number of your car?

Not to hand Ian. I'll try and get it tomorrow but from Barry's info it does look like I have a renault box.

[Qavion]

Not to hand Ian. I'll try and get it tomorrow but from Barry's info it does look like I have a renault box.

 

 

OK, disregard, Neil

[eeyoreish]

Wierd. So I have a Renault box with Citroen adjustment on the clutch fork... and it works.

 

I can only assume that I have the wrong push rod on the slave end so the fork has been adjusted to compensate. I can't find the correct length of the pushrod listed anywhere to check. Anyone know what it should be?

[Vanya]

I'm not surprised it works. On my SE some wally had screwed in the pushrod as far as it will go. No idea what kind of damage it has done, but I adjusted it to the shop spec and its been fine since. I can check what it is this weekend if someone doesn't answer you sooner

[eeyoreish]

I'm not surprised it works. On my SE some wally had screwed in the pushrod as far as it will go. No idea what kind of damage it has done, but I adjusted it to the shop spec and its been fine since. I can check what it is this weekend if someone doesn't answer you sooner

 

Thanks Vanya, that'd be really great. 

 

I just can't see that it will still work if i adjust it back to 12.5mm. Logic tells me I won't get enough movement on the fork...

 

I'd like it to be right though so the more info I have the better I'll be able to work out what's going on!

[Sparky]

That adjustment really has no bearing on the throw - the system, being hydraulic, will simply take up any slack. The 12.5mm setting will help save your flywheel when the clutch gets thin.

[eeyoreish]

That adjustment really has no bearing on the throw - the system, being hydraulic, will simply take up any slack. The 12.5mm setting will help save your flywheel when the clutch gets thin.

 

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm trying to understand the effect of reducing the length to 12.5mm before I start to meddle...

 

Will this reduce the pedal travel necessary to disengage the clutch because the piston in the slave will already be 10mm further 'extended' to start with? 

 

Is the travel in the master and slave cylinders not in some way 'matched'? i.e when the master is at full travel so it the slave? Just concerned that I will unbalance something.

 

I'm learning as I go here so like i said, sorry if this is a stupid question 

 

Worth mentioning that I've replaced the slave with the Landrover S2 alloy one, which is physically the same size as the original so I'm assuming the same capacity/travel. Seems to work so far.

Edited May 26, 2015 by eeyoreish

[Chillidoggy]

You cannot increase or decrease the travel of the pushrod by turning the adjuster. The effect of increasing or reducing the adjuster simply means the "at rest" position of the slave cylinder piston is further up or down in the cylinder, within it's specified adjuster limits, though.

Yes, the cylinders are matched so the correct travel is obtained within the limits, and the travel is the same. With adjustment, what you don't want is the clutch fingers depressed when there's no pressure on the pedal, and you don't want it to lock out, either.

What Sparky said is correct, The reason for the specified measurement is that hopefully your clutch will start to slip before the driven plate rivets eat into your flywheel.

[eeyoreish]

You cannot increase or decrease the travel of the pushrod by turning the adjuster. The effect of increasing or reducing the adjuster simply means the "at rest" position of the slave cylinder piston is further up or down in the cylinder, within it's specified adjuster limits, though.

Yes, the cylinders are matched so the correct travel is obtained within the limits, and the travel is the same. With adjustment, what you don't want is the clutch fingers depressed when there's no pressure on the pedal, and you don't want it to lock out, either.

What Sparky said is correct, The reason for the specified measurement is that hopefully your clutch will start to slip before the driven plate rivets eat into your flywheel.

OK, thanks, so moving the adjuster to the 'correct' 12.5mm won't screw up the cylinder balance and I won't end up blowing any seals etc...

I guess now I just need to know what the correct length of the slave cyl push rod is so I can check what I have. If it's the correct length I'll assume that the PO has adjusted the fork incorrectly and go in for a corrective re-adjustment...

[ragingfool35]

I think there is a post where someone had broken the clutch release fork, attributed to improper adjustment such that (fully) pressing the clutch pedal caused the fork arm to contact the gearbox case and over stress the fork.

and as stated above, with the clutch pedal at rest, the clutch springs should not have any force applied to them. 

[Chillidoggy]

OK, thanks, so moving the adjuster to the 'correct' 12.5mm won't screw up the cylinder balance and I won't end up blowing any seals etc...

I guess now I just need to know what the correct length of the slave cyl push rod is so I can check what I have. If it's the correct length I'll assume that the PO has adjusted the fork incorrectly and go in for a corrective re-adjustment...

You won't blow any seals if the adjustment is correct, and you have the matched cylinders with the correct travel. There is a tolerance on the adjustment, and of course you should have it as specified. Clearly, the pushrod length is critical, and you must get the right length, or you will end up with problems because the specified adjustment figures will be meaningless.

It also occurs to me that if a flywheel has been ground, like mine has, then it might be worth going to the higher end of the specified measurement on the adjuster, as the clutch will be a little further forward, but perhaps that's me being a bit pedantic.

[eeyoreish]

So the only piece of information I don't have now is the correct length for the push rod.

 

Anyone know what it is for a Renault gearbox...??