Blowing at manifold/turbo - plan of action?

[Vanya]

My Turbo SE recently developed a bit of a tractor noise when idling - kind of like it's blowing raspberries at me. 

 

I crawled under the car and placed my hand around various joints suspecting the turbo-to-cat flange (which I'd recently wrestled with courtesy of a deformed nut on one of the three studs) but it turns out there's blowing coming from where the turbo meets the manifold.

 

I'm guessing the gasket is toast and I'm not about to put exhaust paste on it (don't want to risk contamination at the turbo or O2 sensor). 

 

What's the best way to tackle this issue? Turbo out or engine out? I'm guessing the faces will likely need cleaning so I'm suspecting the latter? 

 

Also (long shot, and probably not worth the risk) - what's the chance the nuts have worked themselves loose? I don't dare tightening for fear of shearing the studs off (then I'm in a world of hurt).

 

Any advice?

 

Cheers in advance!

 

/V 

[sailorbob]

I had excessive corrosion on the exhaust manifold turbo flange and used a metal shim gasket with exhaust paste without any issues.

[mr.oogieboogie]

May be a cracked manifold. The turbo gasket is about £10 if i remember. Best thing is to do away with the studs. Put nuts and bolts on mine so manifold and turbo can be removed seperatly.

All the best

[Vanya]

Ok, I'll have a closer look tomorrow. I also thought cracked manifold first but found nothing in the areas where it usually happens. I just have blowing towards the back of the car from one edge of the turbo/manifold connection.

[Vanya]

I've gone through the service notes and find no specific instructions for removing the Turbo. I'm guessing it's just the 4 bolts holding it to the manifold? Is it possible to move it around enough to clean the turbo mating surface leaving the oil lines connected? (line from airbox and compressor inlet disconnected).

 

My PO history shows that manifold and associated nuts and bolts/studs (including broken turbo studs) were replaced in 2010. Under my ownership (2012-2015) the car has only been driven maybe 1500 miles a year in the dry and stored indoors in a warm garage. What are the odds ill get those 4 nuts off without them shearing? 

[Sparky]

Anybody's guess. You want to hope they're loose as they're a bitch to get off insitu. Have the whole turbo off ( it's not a lot more effort) and do as oogieboogie says - nuts and bolts.

[Barrykearley]

With my experience with mine - it's not even worth getting the spanner out. Bolt head will round off......or shear off.......

Find the angle grinder a much more useful tool!!!

[Chillidoggy]

I seem to remember I was forced to split my turbo to manifold nuts with a chisel. There's no way I could have got a grinder in there without damaging the turbo, or something nearby. If it slipped. You could of course start off by getting in there with a small diameter drill, assuming you could get enough access, and then chisel them.

I should at this stage point out that I had removed my engine first, and it was a lot easier than in situ.

[Vanya]

Hahaha cool. Ok well I'll give it a shot and see what the situation is later today. Gotta order a new gasket from the UK anyway which will take 1,5 weeks or so, might as well drive it till then - it's not a big leak, just sounds annoying for the most part. This car is really something else - it puts all my best laid plans to rest. I fix one thing, another crops up - and that suspension rebuild and respray is always the same distance away in the future. 

 

On a more positive note my brother and I managed to align the drivers side door which now closes properly, reducing wind noise and increasing perceived quality in sound terms when closing and opening (turns out nobody had lubricated the latches in 21 years either!)

[MrDangerUS]

Vanya,

 

I went trough the same debacle. 

"Factory made" metal gaskets at the turbo flange and turbine port (to adapter) are made of galvanized mild steel (!)

Apparently another dumb cost avoidance measure!

 

My gaskets were badly corroded and fragmented into pieces when I separated the turbo.

 

There are 4 bolts (17mm hex heads) at the flange. If you have nuts and studs - PO replaced yours, perhaps.

I tried every way possible to take them out. To no avail.

First, I had to remove the oil lines.

Then, I split the turbo at the CHRA to turbine housing (6 bolts) and at the turbine-to-adapter joint.

Next, I removed the adapter.

This gave me a straight shot at the flange/bolt heads.

Then, I used an impact gun (700 lbft of torque) with a long extension and 17mm socket to break them loose.

 

To avoid further problems, I have replaced bolts with stainless M10 studs from Garry Kemp+Nord-Lock washers and Kay-Nuts.

 

Use a stainless T3 gasket as a replacement, nothing else.

 

Bolts and nuts were soaked for 24 hours in K&W  Technician Grade Knock'er Loose Lubricant Penetrant, CRC 401724

(multiple applications), from Amazon.com

This stuff is miraculous! None of them broke!

 

Use Jet-Lube "Nikal" High Temperature Anti-Seize compound on all threaded parts (pure nickel, no aluminium!), from Amazon.

 

Use Nord-Lock washers instead of tabs.

 

Good Luck!

Edited May 12, 2015 by MrDangerUS

[Vanya]

John, 

 

Thanks for the great description! I crawled under my car last weekend and found out that one of the nuts holding the turbo to the manifold was entirely loose! It could be turned by hand. The gasket (which feels like its made of paper :S) appears to be whole. I didn't want to ruin my day by starting the car at that point (in case tightening that nut didn't do the trick) so I took out my V8 instead. I'll start it up tomorrow. Gotta check that the rest of the nuts are done up too. Refitting and replacement of the nuts and studs in 2010 seems to have been done correctly - there's residue of copper paste of some kind on most things. I've brought my stethoscope home from work for my next inspection - easier than running my hand around the manifold and risking burns. 

 

I'll be testing K&W Knock'er Loose as well. I might pit it against PlusGas. May the best compound win.  

[Vanya]

Update: one of the nuts on the turbo/manifold keeps loosening. I've ordered a new heat resistant Kaylock nut from Demon Tweeks - hopefully that one, once tightened, will hold. 

 

I noticed also that whoever serviced the car previously and replaced the studs didn't re-mount the turbo with locking tabs. 

 

Anyhow, I tighten the nut, get under the car (from cold) start it up, spray some soapy water on the area and there's hardly any foaming at all. After a drive however, it will loosen and I can hear the metallic tone from outside the car. Also sprayed the manifold to check whether there might be something going on there but nada. 

 

I was out driving for 4-5 hours this Saturday. I've read on the all-knowing internets that such a leak during a prolonged periods of use pretty much results in destroying the gasket - dunno how much truth there is to this or if it's usual forumite fear-mongering but I'd prefer to drive my car rather than induce depression by removing the turbo and likely snapping off studs. Have any of you had this issue? A friend of mine says he had loosening nuts when he bought a crappy set once... 

 

Drivability, haven't really noticed any issues - boost spikes to 1 bar then settles steady at the normal values. Gas mileage is crap as usual albeit this might be thanks to a badly positioned sender in the aftermarket tanks. Maybe I'm making a big fuss out of nothing? 

[sanj]

If it's been leaking it's highly likely the gasket has perished.

[Bibs]

The gases are 1200C whipping around the turbo and any escaping will melt a lot of things in the engine bay. When this happened to mine, I managed to melt the gearchange cables. 

[Vanya]

Holy crap. I guess I'd better ensure no more leaks then, although when I was under there on saturday things looked as usual. I might remove the turbo - doesn't look too bad other than potentially seized bolts. 

[Qavion]

Sometimes removing the boot floor or moving it aside (without disconnecting the wiring harnesses) will give you a lot better access to the bolts.

 

Cheers

Ian.

[Vanya]

Ok so got everything back together, new turbo gaskets, new kaylock nuts, lock tabs...everything is fine, tightening the nuts was fine (I'll put up some pics with tips that make torqueing them risk-free and simple) but HOW does one bend the turbo locking tab at the nut toward the front right of the car? I can think of lifting the car up, using a LONG punch to bend it UP, but to then press against the nut? I'm flummoxed.

 

As it stands now I'll have 3 of 4 nuts locked down....any tips?

[Sparky]

There'll always be something the right shape!  Like you, I use a punch first.  Then I have a selection of pry bars; it's just a matter of finding one the right size/length, and with the right angle on the end, to get in there and fulcrum against something, anything - sometimes even another bar.

 

Arguably, the K-lock should hold anyway.  I know some who don't even bother with the turbo tabs.

[Vanya]

...such as the PO of my SE

Thanks for the tips Sparky, I'll give it a go with unorthodox methods

[fjmuurling]

Use nordlock washers or when using the tabs prebend them a little before mounting.

[Vanya]

I didn't quite manage - I don't dare pry against the turbo housing or some other part of the engine. So one of my nuts has no contact with the lock tabs....I'll see how this plays out.