Future of Lotus

[CharlieBrown]

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:44, Ccd said:

I keep seeing announcements of hiring at Lotus, but still nothing seems to change.  The cynic in me believes this is because Lotus is hiring people for a complete re-boot of the brand.  Geely paid for the Lotus name and the engineering, not the current lineup of cars.  

I think some cars will continue to be made at Hethel only because it is part of the Lotus “mystique.”  The lion’s share will be made in China.  

As for the US, adding Lotus to select Volvo dealerships makes sense.  I think people sometimes forget that Lotus only has one US compliant car, the Evora 400, and it’s not exactly flying off dealer showrooms.  I think all current models will be allowed to continue with little further development until they are replaced by entirely new models.  

The Evora 400 in the US is selling in much less quantities compared with the S1 Gen. Sad but True...….I went to check the new 911 base car and the new Cayman. They are nice but IMO they were far from my Evora 400 in look and power. Both have less power too, but the Cayman was cheaper and the 911 was about around 110k. I also went to see the new 2 door 2019 AMG 63s, very nice car and comes with 503 bhp and the sticker price said $94,000 (loaded with options too).

Lotus needs to completely redesign the Evora and put 500 bhp. They can call it Lotus 500. That could be their entry level "super car."

[NedaSay]

Considering how quiet things are, I wouldn't be surprised if the Evora was to get another thorough refresh tailored for the US and Chinese markets soon. The GT430 was supposed to reach the American shores in December but that did not happen, however it could be that they have been delayed due either to a decision to provide a revamped MY2020. Some have mentioned the shutdown as a cause for the delay but I don't really buy it.

One thing Geely has done with Volvo, at the beginning, was to make sure that the then current cars kept receiving updates and upgrades until the newer models were ready. I don't see why they would not do the same with Lotus. A dealer on Lotustalk recently hinted at the Evora receiving more significant updates and upgrades. If the new sport cars are effectively MY2021( presented in 2020 but for sale late in the year or early in 2021) then it makes sense to refresh the Evora soon, especially considering the refresh the competition just received. Keeping the core chassis layout, a light reskin of the outside and another overhaul of the inside could be in the cards. An Evora Evo of sorts focusing on the details but still significantly different while remaining clearly Evora. They can easily touch the front and rear clam as well as the roof, Slight tweaks to the front and rear bumpers- which are  pretty much perfect imo - they can revamp the cabin tech using Volvo/Geely parts bin, it is not exactly plug and play but close enough. Evora would be the first car to get the new loom that lotus so badly needs it would only be logical to move all the sport cars to it stat.

As to getting 500bhp from the powertrain in its current layout... I won't hold my breath. I know that both the GR-FE and the JLV-6G35 can reach that number with the addition of a turbo or supercharger, but the gearbox will remain an issue, even-though Geely owns its own DCT 7 speed  gearbox design and deals with AISIN with the very good 8 speed auto. However 450bhp to 480 bhp is theoretically doable with the supercharger so they could  maybe push the current gearbox another 20nm or so especially  if the swapped the supercharge for a turbo in order to obtain a max torque output significantly lower in the rpm range.  However this kind of investment will only be made if they can recoup it over time which would mean keeping the Evora in a form or another significantly longer on the market. JMG hinted at the Evora sticking around anyway so a refresh may have been in the cards regardless and this year would be a good year for the car to get it.

[Advantage]

To be frank, I think it's about time the Evora was dropped. It hasn't ever sold well, not once reaching the original annual sales targets and for whatever reasons hasn't captured the imagination of the buying public. Even a good showing and worldwide exposure on Top Gear didn't make people want it.

Another round of new bumpers and increased bhp won't solve that. Let it die and bring on the new-gen stuff as soon as possible. 

[tim_marra]

[electro_boy]

Don't agree with that @Advantage.  I think the Evora is an amazing car, they've struck very good balance between a raw drivers car with bags of feedback and something with some comfortable mod cons.  I genuinely think they have not sold in better numbers purely because no one knows it exists.  I've spoken to lots of people who like and are into cars and they didn't know the Evora was a thing.  I really do think many more could have been sold if people simply knew about it.  I'm not expecting Cayman or TT kind of numbers but a more than the current sales numbers. 

[Advantage]

It was featured on Top Gear, the world's largest car based entertainment show, appeared in a US soap and was wearing a shiny coat while being the key vehicle for the baddies in a Hollywood movie. Yet still, even during its biggest selling year it barely scraped half of its sales target. In the UK last year, it sold 70 units. That doesn't mean it's a bad product and I agree it's an underrated car, but it doesn't sell. 

[Nathan Pitman]

Product placement and notable reviews are useless unless backed by long term brand awareness strategy. Something Lotus simply haven’t had the cash to establish. 

I am convinced that if they threw even a marginal amount of cash now at advertising they would see a fairly immediate return in sales of the existing cars (Evora included). 

Considering the profit margins on these cars it would seem a no brainer and a way to start building more awareness of the name but I can also understand how that might just be seen as pointless if they are planning a complete brand relaunch. 

[Geoffers]

And it's not just the Evora people are not aware of, a number of times when I have been asked what the car is, people have replied that they didn't know Lotus still made cars!

[Advantage]

Rose tinted specs off, chaps. The Evora's lack of sales can't be magicked away by a few adverts. It isn't a car that appeals, it's as simple as that. No idea why as all the ingredients are there, I guess it's just the wrong recipe.

I've no idea why I don't want one either and I'm prime Lotus fodder ready for wallet harvesting. I'm an easy sale yet I don't yearn for one. Imagine extrapolating that to those who haven't got a long history of buying Lotus or those who are quite happy to entertain owning something from the P word company. It needs to go and its replacement needs to wow the public into yearning for one and not just receive worthy nods or accolades from journos. 

[tim_marra]

To quote a well known Lotus stalwart and ex/current employee "the Evora is the best car Lotus has ever made". Sadly it is also the best car nobody has heard of. I have never had a negative reaction when out and about, or when amongst car enthusiasts. In its current guise it is simply sublime to look at and drive.

People just want Pork, Jag (F type), etc because (I assume) its what they see, hear about most, and have a more accessible dealer network. Hopefully the latest management appointments will help change all that.

[KAS-118]

1 hour ago, Advantage said:

Rose tinted specs off, chaps. The Evora's lack of sales can't be magicked away by a few adverts. It isn't a car that appeals, it's as simple as that. No idea why as all the ingredients are there, I guess it's just the wrong recipe.

I've no idea why I don't want one either and I'm prime Lotus fodder ready for wallet harvesting. I'm an easy sale yet I don't yearn for one. Imagine extrapolating that to those who haven't got a long history of buying Lotus or those who are quite happy to entertain owning something from the P word company. It needs to go and its replacement needs to wow the public into yearning for one and not just receive worthy nods or accolades from journos. 

Probably because it’s neither hardcore like the Elise/Exige, supercar enough like the Esprit, nor a proper 2+2 like the Elite/Eclat.

Personally I really like the Evora - but when I went to look at it and my 14 year old couldn’t get in the back - that ruled it out 😭

[au-yt]

I like other on here and especially out side the UK no one knows Lotus still makes cars and as for the Evora " I didnt know Lotus made that, are they made in China" is standard comment.

I have to give Renault their due with the ALPINE A110 the marketing on that was probably half the design budget, but its worked with lots of teaser stories. Lotus could do the same thing at least outside the UK.

Journalists aren't interested as  LOTUS is not a "Fashion brand" that they can sensationalize and they aren't thrown incentives and yes this happens, I'm good friends with an Aussie Juno and I have mate who was contracted by Toyota for pre-release of new cars, its a game, play it or get left out.

I "discovered" the 400 not because of advertising, but it was sitting in the departure lounge at the Sydney airport and that reignited my interest due to styling changes, I had not seen one add or one magazine article up until then.

Having said all that, I bought a 400 because it is a bloody good uncomplicated exceptionally competent car and it isn't a fashion brand, and in this era of "individualism, you deserve" and all that crap, its to me a good thing.

Edited January 25, 2019 by au-yt
gramma

[Steve V8]

As good as the Evora is, and as lovely as it looks, it's not quite got what it takes to woo those non Lotus perspective buyers.

This from my mates point of view, who recently looked at an Evora, was so disappointed with its lack of "toys" as he put it, that he didn't even bother to take a test drive, he described it to me as "a fantastic looking car, with the interior of a Ford Fiesta" 

I've not been lucky enough to drive one, but have sat in one, and to be honest I prefer my Esprit. 

Perhaps the Evora needed to forget the adding lightness thing, the Exige takes care of that, and focused more on power and luxury, a proper GT with plush leather seats, more switches and gauges than a 747 and other course a voice activated cup holder.

[au-yt]

The "commercial" versions coming with lots of drive aids and distractions that they have in boring Fashion cars

[NedaSay]

I think that when the original Evora came of it lacked one thing proper marketing around it, then it came out at the time when toys on supercars were becoming a must.

Still I do think that if the car did not sell in the number earmarked for it initial (2000 cars per annum) it comes more from the fact that it took Lotus a long time to get its US variant out and about, then DB messed up the GTE  roll out, shelved the roadster siné dié and decided not to invest much into the car to focus on vaporware then was ousted which literally did put  production of all cars in jeopardy. Then at the the Evora 400 relaunch, the car still did not have the tech which was by that point beyond necessary for casual sportcar buyers, the roadster was mentioned but never saw the light of day and the lack of company marketing money did hurt just has much as the lack of a cost effective leasing/financing solution. A very significant number of F-types and 911s are using these schemes  in North America. Then if you factor in the limited network, complete absence of media presence... non sensical marketing campaign ( It's not for you...WTF!)

 

I do think the car has conquest power, if properly equipped, marketed, priced, supported and why not rebranded, if the problem is in the name by all account they should change it. DB wanted to rebrand it Elan after all...  If the problem is in the design well people should get other options soon from Lotus hand have had options from others for a while, and also for a lot more money... Regardless what any Lotus car need right now is a lot more support from the factory, the dealers and the service centres. And the car shall be compared with the stuff from Stuttgart so there's no point calling it cottage industry product or smaller carmaker offering... Nope it will have to be as good if not better than a 911 on almost every aspects that casual sport car buyers deem essential, ease of use, feel good/wow factor, available branded tech, after sale service, financing... 

Edited January 25, 2019 by NedaSay

[scotty435]

Wow listening to this thread it sounds like there is no future for Lotus, never have I heard so much negativity in my life especially at a time when under a new ownership there are positive things happening at Hethel, big recruitment drive, obviously a massive cash injection, don’t let the lack of information of future products be a negative, Geely are operating in the way they know best and have made a success in the past. Me for one I am looking forward to some great products in the next few years.

[Likuid]

People always seem to lean more negative when things are unknown.

I believe the current line-up is dead. Maybe they will do a 450 or something, but I think its the end of the line for the Elise, Exige and Evora. Whether new cars that share those names will come I have no idea.

However, if it really is going to take 3 or 4 years to see the new line-up I wonder if it would be in Lotus interest to at least play around the the Volvo and Geely parts bin. Maybe release a Evora 450 with a custom Volvo-bases ICE, electronic keys, and other bits that will make the car more modern. Maybe make the interior higher quality. I think the new looks of the 410/430 is very good, not much needs to change there. At worst at least they have some experience with more modern tech when the new line-up comes about and at best it sells more cars in the interim.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Likuid

[NedaSay]

In my opinion would make sense for the Evora indeed.

[Loquacious Lew]

10 hours ago, NedaSay said:

 

I do think the car has conquest power, if properly equipped, marketed, priced, supported and why not rebranded, if the problem is in the name by all account they should change it. DB wanted to rebrand it Elan after all......... Regardless what any Lotus car need right now is a lot more support from the factory, the dealers and the service centres. And the car shall be compared with the stuff from Stuttgart so there's no point calling it cottage industry product or smaller carmaker offering... Nope it will have to be as good if not better than a 911 on almost every aspects that casual sport car buyers deem essential, ease of use, feel good/wow factor, available branded tech, after sale service, financing... 

 

Curiously the Evora is something of  a thumb in the eye to pretension even though it is very extravagant and extroverted at another level.  But mediocre fit and finish coupled with routine minor but annoying issues (that are seemingly annoying to Lotus  to deal with as well) need to be addressed with vigor.   As a buyer I shouldn't need to accept excuses instead of prompt action.  And there needs to be some real finance schemes for people who can't just write a check.  I was told I was rare when I handed a check over for mine and I have no trouble understanding why.  Most people can't or won't buy outright and that is thoroughly basic.  

It pains me to say this but Lotus needs to up its game if it wants to be taken seriously in America. And it should want that very much. 

I think your observations are spot on.

Q:  Does Geely have an existing ICE package in the inventory that would plug into the Evora?  I think that's  a problem that's been intimated here before.  

 

  

 

 

 

[NedaSay]

The answer to your Q is yes. Yes they do. Especially if the loom is replaced, but even if it wasn't Geely has an 8 inch high resolution LCD screen ICE, it is called G-Netlink and it has all the bells and whistles including Android Auto and Apple Carplay :http://global.geely.com/intec/g-netlink/ it would take some fiddling to get the loom to communicate and integrate properly but not really something to make a huge fuss about. However if they are replacing the loom, and we know it was the one thing that JMG was insistant on, then they could just drop the Volvo Sensus in the car. It would probably require a dashboard redesign but I don't think it would really stop Geely from doing it. It is all about time actually, if they are updating the car this year. I would imagine G-Netlink be finessed in the car if it is a 2020 redesign i would imagine Sensus.

[CharlieBrown]

On 25/01/2019 at 16:11, scotty435 said:

Wow listening to this thread it sounds like there is no future for Lotus, never have I heard so much negativity in my life especially at a time when under a new ownership there are positive things happening at Hethel, big recruitment drive, obviously a massive cash injection, don’t let the lack of information of future products be a negative, Geely are operating in the way they know best and have made a success in the past. Me for one I am looking forward to some great products in the next few years.

It is not negativity but annoying facts.

Yes, 2 years of new ownership and still (practically) the same Lotus Evora car from 2009 but they brag about selling 1600 cars Worldwide?

Don't get me wrong, the fact that there are so few cars out there makes it very special and unique...it makes me love my Evora 400 even more. I love Lotus cars. This is my second Evora and my third Lotus car (2011 Elise R)

IMO Today the Evora 400 should be more powerful and look very different from the first Gen and not offer gimmicks like the 410 and 430 to attract more buyers....Personally I don't really care about a luxurious cabin and tech gadgets.

[NedaSay]

Negativity maybe not, but facts not quite, more like your opinion I'd say.

First it hasn't been two years, the deal was announced to years ago but took quite a few months to complete, it was completed in September 2017, so closer 1 year and 5 months... 

Second, the Evora evolution is not that different from other cars in its segment, if you look at the 458 now 488 or the Huracan and now Huracan Evo. cars in this segment tend to have longer life span than hatches, sedans, SUVs mass produced... The older Lambo Gallardo stayed on the market for 13 years and the Mazerati currently known as Gran Turismo has been on the market since 2007. Prior to their acquisition, Lotus has done - on its own with nearly no funding from their owner Proton - a thorough rework of the Evora that you own... They did not have money to focus on the shell but they did according to most, you included it seems, a good work of revamping as much as they could without breaking the bank. The 400 looks different enough to the 280/350S in my eyes and the cabin if still not up to casual sport cars buyers standard's, has showed a serious step up in terms of quality.

Third, if you've paid attention to what Geely has done with Volvo, you'll realize that it took them 4 years to come out with their first entirely new model. They acquired Volvo in 2010, the XC90 showed in 2014... They took the time they needed but kept funding Volvo sufficiently so that they could phase off the Ford powertrains progressively, they were done with that in 2016... Volvo conceived during the Ford Era cars have all been using Volvo/Geely tech since 2016. 

Should the Evora be more powerful? that's matter of discussion, but considered the car was aiming to compete with the 911 first and foremost I would say that 410 and 430 are where they need to be powerwise and considering the package limitations they've done a very good job. I don't think the 410 and 430 solely exist to attract more buyers, I think they exist because Lotus knew what they were doing when they came up with the 400, i.e a more civilized Evora, the Sport410 being a more raw version of it for people looking at an Exige like experience, and the GT430 is the road car version of a Cup car, detuned and more GT defintely, but still curated more for the brand true believers than really aimed at the sole finding new buyers purpose... By the way, the rarity of the 400 is making it a bit of classic already so resell value is going to be quite satisfying sooner than later.

Should the Evora look different? That's also a matter of discussion, but considered there was close to no money to refresh the car in the first place, I'm just happy it and the company are still around and people like you are buying them brand new so that people like me can buy them from you in a few years time.

It is all a matter of seeing the glass half full or half empty.

[C8RKH]

16 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

and not offer gimmicks like the 410 and 430 to attract more buyers..

@CharlieBrown can you explain this a bit more please as I'm struggling to understan what the gimmicks are you mention. It can't be the redesigned aero that actually works, the adjustable suspension, the carbon fibre or the sublime TCS. So what is it?  Thanks.

[Barrykearley]

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