Future of Lotus

[DaveC72]

Completely with you - and as you might have guessed, I'm a certified Lotus fanboy.  My heart sinks when you see public representation of the brand I love like this, but it's not without a certain amount of justification.  It's not a great experience when things go wrong.  And they do go wrong for all manufacturers.  It's how you deal with it pre-sale, execution and post.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Yes, they need to nail it from the start with the Emira. If there’s poor feedback from a paltry 1500 worldwide sales per year, imagine what it will be like when they start churning out 5,000 or 10,000 Emiras each year. The internet will implode.

[oneshot]

On 19/09/2021 at 14:03, Barrykearley said:

So - I’ve bought new - VW, Hyundai and Vauxhall - and sadly not once have I received a welcome hamper or Christmas card from the CEOs of any of them.

 

When I bought a Range Rover brand new I got a bottle of champagne and the wife got a bunch of flowers - Admittedly this was from the dealer not Land Rover but never the less was a nice touch.

[exeterjeep]

On 19/09/2021 at 14:03, Barrykearley said:

So - I’ve bought new - VW, Hyundai and Vauxhall - and sadly not once have I received a welcome hamper or Christmas card from the CEOs of any of them.

I used to get an Christmas card from london lotus for many years, until they were sold.

[Bibs]

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-reveals-pioneering-blueprint-for-next-generation-of-electric-sports-cars/

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Considering they’re not intending to launch the EV sports car until 2026, they seem to be a very long way down the design road already. Impressive.

edit: also looks like a hi-tech 3D printed rear hub carrier assembly, which helps weight saving.

[CocoPops]

They’ve probably been running Evora mules alongside Emira preprods.

Don’t forget, they did the Evora 414e or whatever it was called as a tech demo.

[Arregueti]

Is that a centered steering wheel, à la Mclaren F1?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

No watch the animation. It’s LHD.

[mg4lotus]

@ArreguetiProbably not. It's just a perspective thing.

If it was, the steering wheel would be too close to the bulkhead. The driver would be sat astride the central spine of the tub - no support for the seat, awkward ingress / egress.

Electric motor with twin exhausts? 😄

[Arregueti]

Indeed. They were probably just trying to show where the front is and that it will be mid-engined. 
 

It would have been nice, though. 🙂

41 minutes ago, mg4lotus said:

Electric motor with twin exhausts? 😄

Maybe it is the laser equipped James Bond edition 

[jep]

Lotus reveals lightweight platform for Elise and Evora successors | Autocar

 

[NedaSay]

They finally finally finally go official with alloy casting on subframes... They've been refining this - or kept it on a shelf somewhere - for the better part of a decade.

The core chassis looks nicely evolved from VVA now known as SCA/Elemental, the side sills are really thin and they have built in more rigidity below the Bpillars it seems. My question is always the same right now with the powerpack, if it goes bad how do you service it. because, it will be an issue. it seems Lotus has engineered an access from down below. But with the slab that will be a whole lot of aluminium sheet to be removed.

4 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Considering they’re not intending to launch the EV sports car until 2026, they seem to be a very long way down the design road already. Impressive.

edit: also looks like a hi-tech 3D printed rear hub carrier assembly, which helps weight saving.

They've been working on this since JMG...

[NedaSay]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/lotus-reveals-lightweight-platform-elise-and-evora-successors

Quote

Given Lotus's upcoming four-seat coupé will be built in China and use a separate architecture supplied by parent company Geely, the four-seat sports car is highly likely to be an electric successor to the Evora 2+2, which recently bowed out to make way for the Emira.

 

Lotus to use a chassis supplied by Geely for their upcoming Coupé?

I think that is a bit of either bombshell or misunderstanding.

Coupés do stay in Hethel, "Gran coupés" aka Porsche Taycan competitors will be made in Wuhan on a platform that will share significantly more with other Geely group products, lets say SEA platforms with Lotus staples double wishbones and or bespoke multi-link rear articulation. Taking a page of the SEA playbook should be easy to incorporate the A pilar rule underpinning everything developed initialy by Volvo for their Scalable Product Architecture,  and then jointly with Geely Compact Modular Architecture (CMA),  and finaly the Geely branded Sustainable Experience Architecture, SEA which is essentially a skate on which one can bolt whatever subframe they desire to as long as they respect a few bolting and anchoring points.

[KusaKusa]

Yep, the 4 door "coupe" coming out after the first SUV will be based on the Lotus lifestyle EV platform that's used and manufactured in Wuhan.  That's different from the Lotus platform revealed today that supports a 2+2 sports car.  This new platform has 66 kWh batteries for the 2+2, whereas the lifestyle EV platform only supports 92-110 kWh battery sizes.  Honestly, I'm not sure what Lotus can achieve with a 66 kWh bigger coupe with range, and it'll be interesting to see what they use the 99 kWh 2 seat configuration for.

The 66 kWh 2 seat configuration seems almost certain for Type 135.  I'm really looking forward to it!  It should weigh around the weight of the Emira, according to this interview:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2021/04/27/lotus-goes-electric-lotus-goes-global-all-funded-by-chinas-geely/?sh=7fc5e28f4c29

In the case of Type 135 weighing around 3200 lbs and having 66 kWh of batteries, I think they could easily hit ~250 miles range minimum if you compare to Tesla specs, especially with battery tech by 2026. That weight with that range and 469 HP would be amazing!  It doesn't seem like any other companies have anything locked in for an EV sports car; even Porsche is having trouble having a production level EV Cayman, and they don't even have a mid battery platform.  So Lotus is closest right now to having an EV sports car that's more than just straight line AWD performance.

Edited September 21, 2021 by KusaKusa

[RobinB5]

20 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Considering they’re not intending to launch the EV sports car until 2026, they seem to be a very long way down the design road already. Impressive.

edit: also looks like a hi-tech 3D printed rear hub carrier assembly, which helps weight saving.

Not sure if they'd be 3D printed, but their topology has been created using generative design methods, a great approach for lightweighting, very state of the art..

[jimichanga]

Yes did notice the suspension, definitely looks like AI had a hand in refining the design to those organic shapes. Great to see some ambition for a traditional Lotus area of expertise.

[Giniw]

(The generative design methods are not related to any AI though)

[RobinB5]

Though you'd never believe it if you read the marketing bumf that comes with a lot of such softwares  These types of geometries would be identified using topology optimisation, no AI in sight, just an adjoint solution to indicate sensitivities of the primal solution and an optimiser. 

[Giniw]

Yes most AI is not AI anyway :D

[KusaKusa]

I wanted to analyze the new LEVA platform to see if it's actually as big a deal in EV weight savings as Lotus makes it.  Lotus was supposedly targeting around 3200 lbs for the Type 135 (likely the 66.4 kWh config) per Matt Windle (link in an above Forbes article), while Porsche is targeting 3600 lbs for their EV 718 in 2024/2025 (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37692178/2025-porsche-718-electric-future-details/).  That's a pretty significant difference.  To preface, I'm an engineer but I don't know much about vehicle chassis so please correct me or add on if there's anything to dig into.  

First, the press release mentions that they got rid of bolt-on subframes.  Looking at a Tesla Model S for a basepoint comparison, which is very similar to the Model 3 that is pretty lightweight by EV standards, it uses a pretty traditional aluminum subframe that holds the motor and the body structure houses the crumple zone (not shown).  This is also the same with the Lotus Premium Architecture for SUVs/sedans posted above.  In comparison, Lotus LEVA seems to combine the subframe functions into the body structure and remove the subframe entirely, holding the suspension components, surrounding the motor, and attaching to the crumple zone all in one.  It seems to be simpler, less redundant, and have many fewer parts than the Tesla.   

Using a single motor for the 66.4 kWh version probably saves a massive amount of weight.  The Porsche Taycan Turbo and up use a 449 hp rear motor, which weighs 170 kg.  The base Taycan uses a 402 hp motor and feels a bit underwhelming per reviews, but I think 450 hp with a much smaller and lighter LEVA vehicle would be sufficient.  The Cayman EV is rumored to be rear motor to start and dual motor AWD in upper trims.  If Porsche takes the same approach as the Taycan where they basically gimp the base solo motor and necessitate dual motor for performance, then the weight in competitive power may be hampered.  

If anyone can find anything else, definitely bring it forward.  I'm not nearly qualified enough to talk about this.

Edited September 27, 2021 by KusaKusa

[NedaSay]

Yes the LEVA Seems to do without a bolt on rear subframe, which is great for weight saving not so great for repairability from my understanding. VVA on which LEVA  innovates is/was tough. So tough that during crash test, they could replace just the front subframe or rear subframe and send the central chassis core back to crashtesting. Now LEVA will keep a front subframe  because most crashes are front and front 3/4 incident first so having a removable repairable subframe seems like sound business. However with the rear subframe now integrated to the core chassis it means any rear crash will be pretty much terminal. Notice that the subframe does still exist but as it is set to be bonded and riveted to the core and no longer bolted I wish any mechanic in charge or a LEVA sportscar rebuild the very best of luck. However these LEVA cars will also come with a Volvo vetted arsenal of ADASS tech which sole aim will be to prevent the drivers of these cars to get into trouble. So safe driving to everyone who buys and try to have some fun while you are at it.

[jonwat]

[exeterjeep]

2026 seems an age away. Lotus need to plug their fingers out and get some cars actually made and delivered. I still wonder when the first production Evija will actually be delivered to its real customer.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Classic lazy Autocar render. Take an Emira, shrink it a little, ensure the wheels look too big and fill in the side air intakes. Hey presto the new Lotus EV sports car!