Future of Lotus

[Barrykearley]

BMW mini should be hanging their heads in shame. 

The pishe they are spouting about brexit is disgraceful. I’ve actually been to mainland Europe - and you sure don’t see that many minis on the road over there. I’d love to know the numbers they claim to export to the eu from the uk

[TBD]

Mini is 15th best selling car in Germany, very popular in the cities. 32.666 cars Jan to August.

[dodgey_rog]

On 29/09/2018 at 04:22, webfoot said:

White new bits

Seeing that, makes much more sense than just the pictures of the building renders. The site always has been a diamond in the rough, they never made proper use of it, so much potential.

[NedaSay]

Going on a tangent with Mini, I don't think the problem is selling the cars in the UK or anywhere, I think the problem will be the cost of continental sourced parts, these may/will drive the cost of the production way to high considering the sales price of minis.  When it comes to that, British luxury brands will enjoy more protection thanks to their higher prices and de facto higher margins.

Back to lotus, I wonder how long it will take to complete the skeleton buildings started and abandoned at the end of the DB era and how long it will take to complete the new buildings. Any idea on the time required from planning to completion? Geely is about to complete the construction of the Polestar factory,  I think they should be in the final fitting phase by now, with verification/validation prototype being built in Sweden before starting production next year in Chengdu. They have had their timelines pretty much under control at this point. Lets hope the playbook applies to Lotus. 

Lotus and its dealers have opened multiple outlets in quick succession in the past few weeks and with Geely ready to pounce, we could have an onslaught of openings in China next year. I don't think it will be as massive as Geely opening nearly 150 4S dealers in a day (https://paultan.org/2018/08/14/in-china-geely-opens-149-4s-dealerships-in-a-day/) but I do expect the number of Lotus dealers in china to increase dramatically in the next year, right now Lotus is down to a single dealer in Beijing, I don't think Geely will be ok with this situation much longer.

Also the new collection of Lotus clothing and accessories is very motorsport oriented I'd say, but the colours do remind me of Jaguar and Aston Martin current colours with the grey and the acid green predominant. Still, should this translate at some point into more - insert race car livery here - it will look very racy. 

[scotty435]

Dealers had a meeting at Hethel  Friday before the anniversary and one of the said dealerships, told me today that the building work will be completed summer next year.

[NedaSay]

Thank you 🙏 

Well that is suitably speedy. I guess the destruction of the Lotus motorsport building will be made up for at some point in the future.

[scotty435]

Yes shame to see the green shed go, gave us some great cars, don't think it's been mentioned anywhere but in the design studio last week for the anniversary, lotus posted pictures and information on upgrades and purchases they have made so far on new equipment and upgrades to the infrastructure, paint booths, the latest design equipment and lots more , looks like a massive investment already and we all know the requirement drive they are in the middle of at the moment. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

During said Dealers' meeting they refused to confirm the SUV, only saying that a "Lifestyle" vehicle is coming up, whatever that means. You only need to look at the Lotus job vacancies pages though to see an "SUV Senior Analyst" role is required, so I have no idea why they're now being so secretive about it. JMG couldn't stop talking about it!

"Lifestyle", "Luxury", "Connectivity" : it's all change for this "Iconic Brand" at Hethel! 

[dodgey_rog]

Looking into this some more, I found the previous scheme undertaken by DB, doesn't look too bad;

That must be what the skeleton buildings were supposed to be?

 

[Stuart Monument]

19 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Yes shame to see the green shed go, gave us some great cars, don't think it's been mentioned anywhere but in the design studio last week for the anniversary, lotus posted pictures and information on upgrades and purchases they have made so far on new equipment and upgrades to the infrastructure, paint booths, the latest design equipment and lots more , looks like a massive investment already and we all know the requirement drive they are in the middle of at the moment. 

Also was the hanger to Colin’s planes and where they worked on the microlight development , if only walls could talk. 

[RichardC]

On 05/10/2018 at 10:06, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

During said Dealers' meeting they refused to confirm the SUV, only saying that a "Lifestyle" vehicle is coming up, whatever that means. You only need to look at the Lotus job vacancies pages though to see an "SUV Senior Analyst" role is required, so I have no idea why they're now being so secretive about it. JMG couldn't stop talking about it!

"Lifestyle", "Luxury", "Connectivity" : it's all change for this "Iconic Brand" at Hethel! 

I hope that the lifestyle / SUV is really something different and special, not just something that looks live a vertically stretched Evora. Looking at all the cars at the Lotus 70 @ Hethel, one of the coolest and one that I'd overlooked in the past has to be the 1970s Elite shooting-brake. The green one with the green leather and velour interior that used to belong to Colin Chapman especially. Totally wacky and futuristic design. A modern take on that is what is needed. As someone else has commented, I don't think that Lotus has ever mad a dud car model in 70 years. Every one is something special.  Let us hope that the SUV doesn't change that.

Edited October 6, 2018 by RichardC
typo

[NedaSay]

Ok this is a tangent feel free to skip to the next relevant post ... Well I have been quite absolutely about the Geely acquisition from the start and this latest item of news has me even more bullish about it. I know this is China and cost of workforce is not on par with western standard not even close, but come on for mass market manufacturer on their mass market brand and on their home turf, with  prices that are competitive not to say very aggressive and bearing in mind that Geely is not big on export yet these margins are impressive: 

Quote

A fresh study by the center points out that on average, a Geely car costs just €9,529 ($10,942), but the company secures a 14.4 percent profit from revenues before tax and interest.

source: https://www.dw.com/en/geely-the-car-industrys-rising-profitability-star/a-45746185.

14.4 % Considering that the Boyue is accounting for 60% of their sales but that the vehicle line up is being revamped with the latest Volvo knock down kits that are going to generate massive economy of scales, and the latest in reliable tech... Uh if they don't screw this up on their own I think Lotus is in very good hands. 

[drdoom]

The Chinese have everything success requires in hand. I have little doubt they will manage quite nicely over the coming decades. It seems Lotus fortunes have waxed and waned over the decades in step with the fortunes of the middle classes in the relevant markets. It is well apparent that China's middle class are on the ascendant so that bodes well for Geely's interest. Additionally it is known that China plans to be fully up to speed with worldwide benchmarks in technology and product quality in rather few years hence.

Cheers

[KAS-118]

The Thomas Frank and seanek9 comments (1-day ago) on here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fzXa9DESmk are interesting...???

Edited October 11, 2018 by KAS-118

[Beetleything]

Looks like wave bye bye to the combustion engine....

It's well documented that China has a reputation for working with companies and then stealing/copying the intellectual property / designs...

 

listen about 9 mins in.... 

 

 

[nerobi]

Lynk & Co 03 Cyan Concept

[NedaSay]

They would be looking at getting 500 bhp from this thing a 4cyl possibly hybridized pushing 500bhp in a Chinese-Swedish sedan...  If it gets that powertrain the next exige may be a thing for maniacs.

Looks like Cyan racing is going to be the new Polestar of Geely Group Motorsport.

[Sport220]

On 22/10/2018 at 01:08, NedaSay said:

They would be looking at getting 500 bhp from this thing a 4cyl possibly hybridized pushing 500bhp in a Chinese-Swedish sedan...  If it gets that powertrain the next exige may be a thing for maniacs.

Looks like Cyan racing is going to be the new Polestar of Geely Group Motorsport.

Except such a heavy powertrain has no place in a lightweight sportscar. It's probably over 150 kg on top of the ICE

Edited October 23, 2018 by Sport220

[electro_boy]

Possibly because the weight is so low down it doesn't effect the handling as much?

What are the reviews like on these new crop of electric track cars? Rimac and the others sorry cant remember their names but I think there are few available these days? I've only seen the Rimac on The Grand Tour etc so not a decent in depth review but I don't think Hamond was complaining that it felt heavy and couldn't handle corners.

Edit - I totally forgot to take account of the ICE!  Yep EV system only, you could probably hide the weight as its low down but ICE + EV system yep that could a bit heavy. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by electro_boy

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

55 minutes ago, electro_boy said:

I've only seen the Rimac on The Grand Tour etc so not a decent in depth review but I don't think Hamond was complaining that it felt heavy and couldn't handle corners.

He was probably too busy praying!

[scotty435]

A interesting article from piston Heads, some Lotus content here, especially with people saying that it is Geely that as brought the rights, surely not? What with the the input that Lotus had into the original  car from day one, extruded chassis development and so on. What's your thoughts?

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-aston/aston-sells-vanquish-design-to-third-party/39002

[NedaSay]

Little known fact before buying Lotus, Geely made a play for Aston Martin but the current ownership did not want to sell.  Then Lotus found itself for sale alongside Proton and Geely got Lotus for cheap change. 

Today, Geely does own Polestar, Lotus and has huge capability to build essentially what is a VH architecture sports car already. Lets  not forget that Aston Martin's VH platform was engineered by Lotus. Lotus still has the IP from the Lotus Elite intent prototype, it was a barely started design but VVA is highly versatile and could accommodate a front engine layout easily. Furthermore if Lotus is to build a new Elite and needs to expedite development, they could just as well use the way more recent Polestar 1 underpinnings.  In my opinion buying something what they essentially already have makes very little sense.  Geely has been hyperactive lately  but I don't think they needed to buy this outdated platform...

However a lot of carmakers would find an interest in buying that tech. Such a platform would essentially expedite the development for a GT or Super GT. I could name a few carmakers and boutique outfit that could invest the cash.  To name a few, the Chinese brands Dongfeng, Borgward, Qoros... Vietnamese newcomer Vinfast is also flush with cash and they have access to BMW chassis and powertrain, getting access to a sport car platform for a dime could accelerate things for them and by the look of it they want to be premium so a sports car would be logical. From England, Dyson could have an interest. As the article points out there's also a number of smaller players with deep pockets investors that could have seen this has a good buy.  

The big news is really is that Aston Martin has enjoyed a great deal of the previous Lotus engineering exodus and now has its own engineering division and that it is mighty enough to lead third party project. 

I'm really glad that if Phil Popham has been made Lotus cars CEO, Feng Qingfeng remains the Group CEO and is in charge of engineering,  Lotus has been integrated to Geely's R&D centres of excellences. Lotus engineering will keep working for third parties and Geely Group will take full advantage of it. Lotus is hiring quite massively in order to get back to the level of workforce they had during the short lived DB era. I would not be surprised in the least to hear that Lotus Engineering could reopen its Chinese office before soon, nor would I be surprised if Lotus Engineering Inc in Ann Arbor was to get a full retool. 

[electro_boy]

I know the rolling chassis was designed and tuned by Lotus and then handed over to Aston to complete the car. So you’d think Geely would just look in-house to design a car if needed? 

Although article states the deal includes tooling and other design knowledge.  

I’m not in the business of making cars but I imagine it’s a long way to go from a prototype rolling chassis to actually figuring out how to manufacture it.  Plus all the  other gubbins you need to make it a car and not a rolling chassis.

This could give Geely a short cut to production for a new model? And the chassis design was done by Lotus so kinda still in-house and not outsourced. 

On 23/10/2018 at 16:48, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

He was probably too busy praying!

That wasn’t the cars fault was it? I thought it was Hammonds fault he crashed? Totally misjudged the corner? 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I don't know for certain, but the accident happened well past the hill climb finish line if I remember correctly, so he should have been slowing down and taking the bend without any problem.

[Bravo73]

He should have been. But he didn’t (for some reason) and totally stuffed it up. It was covered in reasonable detail in one of the GT episodes.