Speed limiters to be fitted on all cars from 2022

[march]

Anyone have any views on this:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/mandatory-speed-limiters/

Big brother definitely seems to be arriving especially as data logging will be included in the box, and overriding it by putting your foot hard down on the accelerator is going to be an interesting facility in high powered automatic cars. I predict lots of Porkers parked in ditches, fields, trees, walls etc.. so may be the EU does have it's heart in the right place.

 

[mik]

Thoroughly depressing reading.

Great that the driver will be able to over-ride this imiter, but it will be interesting to see what Insurance Co's do. Have an accident and your black box shows you were doing 32mph in a 30 limit. Deem you to have been driving "too fast" ( ? ).

This approach completely fails to address the concern of inappropriate speed or poor driving standards - you'll still be able to drive 20cm from the car in front at 70mph in freezing fog. Another thing for the non-thinking drivers out there to not-think about. Further dumbing down of capabilities when we need improved training and increased policing to address bad driving.

[Neal H]

Nows a good time to buy a fast classic keeper before the prices shoot up as 2022 approaches.

[Cdm2018]

I am tasked for my work to review our fleet and it’s very likely that we will move to a greener fleet away from diesel cars to most likely Toyota full hybrid cars.

these cars when I met fleet rep will be loaded with various tech including speed limiters

we also might have in car monitoring cameras systems but probably front facing? We aim to reduce company carbon footprint and increase safety for drivers, but not its seems saving individuals an awful lot of tax which is counterproductive ? 

So I am thinking my weekend S1 Evora will be more special but that’s to me as it’s appears new generations will not be massive petrolheads as they will simply see a car as transport pod option ? Oh joy

thank goodness my kids appreciate a good car and the thrill & joy it brings their dad ! 

so the future will most likely be going down this transport pod route also interestedly I went to fleet seminar where Thactham we’re presenting future car tech and indeed they were currently testing much if not all this tech for cars due for sale 2022-25   

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I know any road accident death is tragic, but don't we need a bit or perspective on this? There have never been so many vehicles on our roads, but look at the statistics. The death rate has fallen from 6000 p.a. in 1980 and settled at 1800 p.a. for the past seven or eight years compared to 45.5 million active driving licence holders (plus any foreign drivers). That's 1 fatality for every 2500 drivers out there. 

In fact even road safety campaigners "Brake" claim that speed is a contributory factor in only 25% of all RTAs, so this new system could only potentially save 1 in every 10,000 drivers p.a. Isn't this all a massive over-reaction to a problem that we've pretty much got on top of already? There are always going to be accidents: even if the technology prevented all speed-related fatalities, we would still be looking at 1350 deaths p.a. Aren't there better ways of saving 450 lives each year? For example accidents at home cause 6000 deaths each year in the UK.

[Cdm2018]

Chief cause of accidents is distraction and there’s way the aim of car safety is heading by reducing or eliminating the human error factor! 

The technology for autonomous cars is here and Thactham are now working out with insurance industry how this will implemented on UK roads

I may generalise but I think the driver of a cherished car (like a Lotus) is more likely to be extra cautious on road and therefore probably safer ?   

I will predict in future for myself I have a company car with all tech etc for work driving so it’s a work tool in essence .

at weekend or off duty I have my Evora for sheer pleasure 

[davevr6car]

Currently Insurance companies and the police can download the ecu post incident....they don't need to wait till 2022.  Most cars post 2016 have this facility 

[Mark030358]

This is correct. I was in a garage a few years ago with a written off his dads VW Golf GTI. Young lad claimed he swerved to avoid a dog, ECU said he was at warp 9 (well almost)

cheers

[BatMobile]

Doesn't say motorbikes......so time to get a bike license me thinks! 

Be interesting to see what this does to Ferrari/Lambo/McClaren etc new car sales post 2022 as I can't see why you'd buy one if you cant go any quicker than an economical, comfier car.

I guess it will also push up track day costs as that will be the main source for people to explore the full power/potential of their car.

 

[Bee]

From 2022, you'll be able to turn off the Intelligent (ahem) Speed Assistance (although you'll have to do it each and every time you drive), but I think we all know the end-goal is to make them permanent a few years after. I wonder whether a post-Brexit UK will rise up against that particular diktat and chip tuners etc. will be able to restore a 'choice' option. You can genuinely see the sports car market crashing and burning 'when' it becomes mandatory AND permanent.Their respective sales will absolutely plummet and some big names are likely to either go under or to switch to extreme luxury, as that will be the only way to sufficiently justify the price tags on their cars. £50,000-150,000 for a sports car that bombs forwards for a few yards only for the engine to cut power - 90% of sports car sales will evaporate overnight!

[march]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

90% of sports car sales will evaporate overnight!

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

[DanR]

How many deaths do pedestrians account for in the stats?

[pete]

11 hours ago, Neal H said:

Nows a good time to buy a fast classic keeper before the prices shoot up as 2022 approaches.

They may make all older cars carry the same sort of black box young drivers have to reduce their insurance premiums

[scotty435]

There is a lot of water to go under the bridge from now and 2022 on this topic, even if its not in the not to distant future, there will be arguments for the pros and cons for such drastic measures, so in my opinion with will not happen in the said time scale and probably not for a long time after. And sorry to bring the dreadful word Brexit into it, this could be even more complicated for the public to digest.

[Cdm2018]

As it stands the speed limiters are restricted to new cars on sale in 2020, no mention of older cars was stated in any EU directive

so I think trying to get your insurance companies to get 97% of older cars in the country to have these black box could be a massive undertaking? There’s going to be a need for massive infrastructure to monitor and analyse the data from these boxes even if it’s almost automated process ?   

Maybe by 2030 there might be a catch up implemented for older cars but then I will be senile, dribbling and hopefully a kick back against a raft of EU directives ????

[philcool]

What's new already got all the above on my company van including a memo highlighting that any accident be my fault or not the tracker information will be sent to the insurance company. We get a bar chart now and this includes any harsh accelerating or braking or excessive cornering speeds and at any point in the journey I speed it's highlighted in red including how much over the limit and for how long.

Well how does it effect me coming from 32years without a tracker/limiter.

I'm makeing more money as have always been paid door to door and absolutely no incentive to rush or make up time so quit relaxing. And any traffic which there's plenty so what more overtime.

Now the company is getting the hump as overheads have increased due to the extra travel.

Now waiting for the memo telling us all to drive the maximum speed limit at all times.😁

 

 

 

 

[pete]

34 minutes ago, Cdm2018 said:

As it stands the speed limiters are restricted to new cars on sale in 2020, no mention of older cars was stated in any EU directive

so I think trying to get your insurance companies to get 97% of older cars in the country to have these black box could be a massive undertaking? There’s going to be a need for massive infrastructure to monitor and analyse the data from these boxes even if it’s almost automated process ?  

All of that is available now. It may not be compulsory at first but your insurance will rise considerably if you don't have a black box as it does for new drivers.

[USAndretti42]

How will these work the variable speed limits on "smart" motorways?  What infrastructure is going to be in place to tell the car what the limit is at any particular time?  Same goes for limits for roadworks.

How will they decide what rate of deceleration to use when entering a lower speed limit?  Presumably it won't be stamp on the anchors.  Increasing speed when leaving the limit will, I presume, be left up to the driver or will it?

Shame is, this won't be used to make speed limits more appropriate as, I believe, that limits are often lowered to deal with drivers who didn't obey the previous limit.

[pete]

40 minutes ago, USAndretti42 said:

How will these work the variable speed limits on "smart" motorways?  What infrastructure is going to be in place to tell the car what the limit is at any particular time?  Same goes for limits for roadworks

Waze already does all  that and the box does everything else

https://www.rac.co.uk/insurance/black-box-insurance/guide-to-black-box-insurance

[au-yt]

Keep in mind this speed limit thing is a proposal only, it hasnt been voted on.

[ramjet]

8 hours ago, pete said:

All of that is available now. It may not be compulsory at first but your insurance will rise considerably if you don't have a black box as it does for new drivers.

I would agree with you. While we do not have the 'black box' that you mention here in Australia, I would highly suggest that it will be very similar to when they first brought out immobilisers.

It did not take long for the insurance companies to charge more for a car that did not have one.

So you don't want to install and use an ISA? Watch your premium increase.

I would not be surprised to see some insurers say "No ISA? Sorry we can't help you."

I got a similar line from our country's automobile body when I wanted to insure my S4. "Sorry. We do not insure Lotus cars."

I wonder if that qualifies as a racist remark?

[MarkL]

If they don't limit acceleration and curve speed it's ok for me to limit top end speed untracked. Anybody feels like being able to go fast in a straight line until they erect a cross for him. This is my observation locally.

As an old fast car enthusiast I will keep on going with the specialist insurance companies which know their customers.

Edited March 29, 2019 by MarkL

[Kimbers]

On 28/03/2019 at 10:04, Cdm2018 said:

I am tasked for my work to review our fleet and it’s very likely that we will move to a greener fleet away from diesel cars to most likely Toyota full hybrid cars.

these cars when I met fleet rep will be loaded with various tech including speed limiters

we also might have in car monitoring cameras systems but probably front facing? We aim to reduce company carbon footprint and increase safety for drivers, but not its seems saving individuals an awful lot of tax which is counterproductive ? 

I've worked in Fleet Purchasing and Managing for 11 years now and one thing we have learnt (And so have I in the last 3 years of running 6 different ones) is that not only do Hybrids NOT save you money, but when taking into account how much fuel useage you have and the cost of it, they increase your Co2 output and cost you a lot more in fuel. Plus the cars aren't as much fun to drive and they are all Auto;'s.

A good example is my current Lexus. I average 38 MPG driving carefully. 43 on a long journey. Even using the higher figure thats 20MPG less than my old Diesel.  The Co2 figures are identical 110g/km but taking into account that every 80 miles I am using a gallon of fuel more (minimum) then the Co2 is actually a lot higher. Plus I pay my own private fuel so it Costs me more as well!

Yes Diesel puts out more particulates but as you see more use of Adblue, this will disappear. Hybrids are also totally uninspiring to drive and a lot more expensive to buy than the equivalent Diesel or Petrol car. Toyota's also have poor resale values in comparison to a lot of Japanese and Asian manufacturers.m If you Absolutely MUST go hybrid then go Plug In Electric Hybrid. Our running costs on those are on a par with a diesel, with the added benefit of a 40 mile range on pure electric meaning local every day runs cost about 10p for the 40 miles (Charge from a normal plug socket is 5 hours at 2p an hour). They also have a Co2 of 35 g/km instead of the 90-110 of Toyota products.

The experiment didn't work for me. It effected morale as everyone universally hated them, it increased our company costs on fuel, increased insurance (as they are expensive to fix) and increased our Co2 output. They cost more to buy and finance and the whole "Buy Hybrid" thing is an absolute lie. Co2 went up worldwide for the first time in 10 years this year. The pendulum will swing back and the Govts will start taxing petrols again. However they won't drop the taxes on diesels. It's all a farce to increase revenues with the excuse of reducing Carbon emissions.

They proved it earlier last year by removing £2500 a car of govt support on plug in's. Since then the bottom has dropped out of the market.

All I will say is look again at your Fleet policy.

[Kimbers]

9 hours ago, au-yt said:

Keep in mind this speed limit thing is a proposal only, it hasnt been voted on.

Approved "In Principle" by the EU and being ratified now. We are told it will happen 100%. It will also be "Smart" eventually and know the speed limits on which road you are on. 

For me this is easily changed for further money generating by countries starting to charge for road usage and mileage and could also be used to inform authorities when you break speed limits. There would have to be a change in law but regular speeding could enable authorities to charge if the system is calibrated.

And before anyone says that will never happen, it already has. Read this.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/editor-s-view-the-big-picture/2018/12/03/prepare-for-the-future-by-understanding-benefits-of-telematics

 

[Cdm2018]

Cheers Kimbers for your insight in fleet options

i have to get our carbon footprint down which includes other aspects like waste management and energy consumption as when we bid for local authority contracts it’s increasingly become a key factor in their question set.

yes plug in hybrid are an option but I think the list price is much more than full hybrids 

Toyota are leaders in the field as other manufacturers have pointed out but I think it’s got to be first of many steps in order to get away from fossil fuel dependant cars.

yes autos are the only option but to be honest for my work driving it’s mucg less tiring and easier so I am more than happy which leave my Evora to enjoy at weekends