Coronavirus

[C8RKH]

Still more have died from Flu or Heart attacks. We all know it's serious but some people focus on the serious and some focus on being upbeat. I'm working from home now but still starting at 0700 and finishing at 1930. Not worked out if it's better I'm going in to my own bed each night, or missing the big smoke and my regular hotel. Never used to get nagged at in the hotel for having just one more wine..

25 minutes ago, USAndretti42 said:

 I haven't heard news from Norfolk.

Not much ever makes it out from Norfolk. Even the news. Think they only got the Telegraph in 2011...

[au-yt]

2 hours ago, tim_marra said:

Greta says she thinks she may have it. Attention seeking again or genuine?

She is an attentions seeking child with asbergers coached buy her parents to be political ideological puppet of the UN, which driven by the "Club of Rome". and she has no idea of what damage they are causing, what they are proposing will cause more damage than C-19, and already starting to. They will think C-19 is a good thing as one of their goals is to reduce the earth population if you think im joking do some homework. 

Back to C-19 discussion

[Barrykearley]

[USAndretti42]

It's been reported that F1 is going to use its manufacturing capacity to help with the supply of respirators.  Looks like it's happening as this was posted on LotusExcel.net this evening.

"I can confirm that we will be building C-PAP (constant positive airway pressure) machines here at Mercedes AMG HPP Brixworth. We went from first discussion, through design, test rig, sourcing materials and bought-in parts, and prototype built and tested in 3 days - that's F1 turnaround for you!"
 

[Jacques]

Likewise here in Denmark, all universities, private labs, and many many food making companies, alcohol making companies, plastic making companies etc. are now making all sorts of hospital aides to up the testing capacity as well as helping hospitals and others having enough equipment for treatment and protection.

Kind regards,

jacques

[gregs24]

1 hour ago, USAndretti42 said:

Are Lotus still making cars.  Most of the manufacturers have stopped while this crisis is on but I haven't heard news from Norfolk.

Were they making any before the crisis ? 😉

[oilmagnet477]

I've been drinking thinking:

1. So small, medium and large companies can apply for emergency loans from the Govt (that will still have to be paid back). As yet, the self employed and sole traders haven't a clue what they can do with zero income.

2. Here's an idea: All the f**king Banks and credit card companies who WE bailed out in 2008 coz they were 'too big to fail', FREEZE or CANCEL interest costs NOW and for the next 6 months so that any existing debt can be nibbled away at without piling on the misery.

3. Give all the small people who are 'too many to fail' a f**king chance. If the lending businesses are then compromised let them get a f**king loan from the Govt - cheap rates and they can pay it back later. Why does it ALWAYS fall to the guys at the bottom??

 

 

[Bibs]

I read today that most high st banks have upped the interest on their overdrafts to 40%. Nice. 

I'm signing up to this. While I'm in the vulnerable group due to a lack of immune system I can make phone calls. I'd recommend anyone else who can help does so. 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/03/your-nhs-needs-you-nhs-call-for-volunteer-army/

[ramjet]

It is that sort of thing that governments should be passing immediate laws about and then telling the banks, "No, the interest is now 0% and while you're at it, have this hefty fine."

I can't help but think that there are many people/companies/businesses with a hell of a lot of money that could assist a lot of people with what they are having happen to them.

I remember the Indian saying that I saw on a poster, may have been from the Hopi Indians,

'Only when the last fish has been caught and the last tree cut down, only then will man learn that he cannot eat money.'

Or something very similar to that.

Home schooling is what people are setting up now. Our government has said that the schools are working on this as we speak and it is now the holidays. Well it is for the children, but not the teachers who are trying to get all of this in place. The next issue is going to be the further loading up of the Internet which has already seen issues from all the extra traffic from WFH people. I saw evidence of it this morning on a meeting where we all had turn video off so that we could continue to talk. Add however many children doing online learning into the mix, uni students etc, and things are going to be very different.

[RobinB5]

5 hours ago, Bibs said:

I read today that most high st banks have upped the interest on their overdrafts to 40%. Nice.

As crappy as the interest rate rise is, it was decided some months before Covid19:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51278036

 

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

I've been drinking thinking:

1. So small, medium and large companies can apply for emergency loans from the Govt (that will still have to be paid back). As yet, the self employed and sole traders haven't a clue what they can do with zero income.

2. Here's an idea: All the f**king Banks and credit card companies who WE bailed out in 2008 coz they were 'too big to fail', FREEZE or CANCEL interest costs NOW and for the next 6 months so that any existing debt can be nibbled away at without piling on the misery.

3. Give all the small people who are 'too many to fail' a f**king chance. If the lending businesses are then compromised let them get a f**king loan from the Govt - cheap rates and they can pay it back later. Why does it ALWAYS fall to the guys at the bottom??

 

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiments which in principle I could support, let's not forget that whilst normal PAYE employees have no choice but to pay their full whack of Tax and NI contributions, many IR35 contractors (especially in my IT sector), sole traders (who love to deal in cash) and self employed ( not all but a considerable number) have spent years avoiding tax and NI contributions. Hmmm, did they give a shit about the NHS? Did they pay their full whack to cover the banks? Of course not. Many of them were smug bastards who live a great lifestyle well beyond what their "declared" income would suggest.

So as ever it's not a cut and dry decision. Many will have VAT bills due, so suspend that, interest free for 12 months. That will release cash for them. Just an example of the options.

I do have sympathy for the self employed, but not all of them are on the breadline, for a lot, it's the bloody champagne and caviare line with expensive cars, big houses, and kifs in private school on a surprising, relatively low, declared income. Maybe they should use their tax free wealth to support themselves rather than tax payer funded government support.

Next time you're in London have a chat to your self employed black cab driver and you'll quickly learn that times are tough Guv'nor. Sorry cash only, card machine not working. And yeah, great tan as just back from a couple of weeks in Mauritius and we're off to the Seychelles in 5 weeks....

What about your cash in hand window cleaner who is either a Fireman or on benefits?

Your IT contractor who has been earning £600 a day, (£135k in billable days) for the same client for 5 years, paying themselves a minimal salary, regular dividends and offsetting "expenses" against earnings for tax etc. Did they give a shit about their PAYE colleagues who were earning half what they earnt and paying twice the tax?

Contrast that to self employed "piece" workers who are taken advantage of as they are NOT PAYE employees so in zero hour, low paid, no guarantee of earnings situations often with little supporting paperwork re earnings.

How do you write policy in a few days to cover that breadth of situation

So for anyone who still thinks decisions around policy are easy, think again. You're wrong.

[RichardC]

15 hours ago, pete said:

Police speed check van out today. Another group of self employed

That's a van and driver that could be out delivering food to the homes of pensioners.

[Barrykearley]

It’s a very tricky situation @C8RKH - it is far from simple. Just filing the tax return every year needs a practising specialist whom ensures you do it right. It’s their job to minimise your tax liability.

my neighbour and his various kids in his housing association home won’t be worrying about it. His £2k a month will be coming anyway.  All of my non essential work has stopped. I would expect all rental money from my HMOs to dry up quickly as some will use this situation as an excuse not to pay. 

The taxation situation in this country is broken. Income tax should be abandoned completely and purchase tax implemented - it’s far easier to tax expenditures than it is to tax the incomes of people.

me - I’ll sit tight - use the rainy day fund and ride the storm. 

[Chillidoggy]

11 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 

Wife keeps pestering me for sex but I keep playing the social distance card.  Phew....   Now. What's on Netflix tonight....?  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’ve told mine it’s impossible due to the government recommended minimum 2 metre separation distance.

[PhilW]

1 hour ago, RichardC said:

That's a van and driver that could be out delivering food to the homes of pensioners.

Beggers belief

 

[PhilW]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

 

me - I’ll sit tight - use the rainy day fund and ride the storm. 

As an employee and not a businessman I accept I probably do not understand the ways things work from a business point of view. I also understand a lot of small business operate  on a shoestring but are successful due to the astonishing hard work of the owners and their employees.  What I dont understand is why I will regularly hear on the news that this company and that company have made X millions, sometimes hundreds of millions this year.  Where is it now?  I am fortunate I know. I can ride this personally as I have always tried to do my best with planning my future financial stability when funds were available.  Why cant companies be forced to do this?  I think banks were  forced to put some aside after the 2008 crash.

I can not deny whilst I know Richard Branson is not a huge shareholder in a lot of Virgin businesses it did grate a little 10 days ago when he started on about the Billions the airlines needed from the government.  The guy that owns Wetherspoons spinning his policy to make his company looking like they give a s***.  The company my son works for which is a major car company  (Dealership) last week removed the 5 days sick pay from their policy and will be reviewed in 6 weeks.  Personally I think that is change of contract and they havent given reasonable notice so in my view challengable but just disgraceful.  

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

It’s a very tricky situation @C8RKH 

I very much agree with you Barry which is why I tried to provide a "balanced" view with examples of good and bad. I was trying to support my final point which is getting the policy right, in this complex area, is not easy. So those expecting it to be done dead easy and quickly are just wrong!

I do disagree with you partly. It is bloody easy to tax the incomes of people who work for "companies" as PAYE - it is the people who self declare and have the luxury of "paid for" advisors to limit their tax bills where it gets hard. I'm assuming any nasty fees paid for this are recovered from the tax savings anyway, so self funded! But, in general, yup, would be happy to move to a tax based system on spending, but at this time in my life I don't need to spend much so when I am earning shedloads, I won't be contributing much, and just does not feel right. My upbringing was very much "if you earn it, you can afford to pay it" which is why I'm not a fan of the ability of some to pay someone to "limit" their contributions.

Your prejudice will naturally come down to which chair you sit in - PAYE or not. As for those who live on benefits, well, that's a whole different story altogether. Where do we start. Two scenarios below, obviously before anyone gets too offended or righteous they are exagerated a bit. And yes, I do know and agree that not everyone on benefits is happy about it or a scrounger. Some are there not through choice but circumstances and are desperate to get out if it. But then, some aren't!

Scenario 1

I work all my adult life from 15 until 65 (old system) - I pay income tax, NI and council tax every year. I positively contribute to the community and UK PLC. When I retire, the state "awards" me a pension based on my contributions. I get free healthcare with the NHS, and invested some of my earnings to buy a house and build a small nest egg for retirement. When I get ill, I get fook all until my house and assets are sold and I have no more than about £16k in the bank as lifetime savings to show for 50 years in work. At this stage, late in my life and almost destitute but in need of care, I get a council funded cheap bed in a so so care home and get left to sit in my pee all day.

Scenario 2

I decide that work is not all it is cracked up to be so learn the system and play it.  I contribute little to the community, pay no income tax, no NI and little or no community tax and I take as much as I can from UK PlC. It's not fair as I am never allowed to take as much as I want, a subscription to "Hello" magazine and Sky Sports ain't cheap you know!  My rent is largely paid for and my council has to house me and my partner and kids.  After 40 years of being subsidised I retire on a state pension. I have no worries about assets or a nest egg, so continue to maximise my benefits knowing that at a later stage in my life I will get a council funded cheap bed in a so so care home, get left to sit in my pee all day, but hey, at least I can listen to @C8RKH whinging and fooking grumping about life ain;t fair and why he does not get as many benefits as me - cos he's a rich fooker with £16k savings in the bank. God that @C8RKH is a selfish tw@t!

So, is this right and just? At times like these when we have a national emergency, do those that have "minimised" their contributions feel a tinge of regret that maybe their FULL contributions would have meant we had a better funded NHS, a better UK PLC fiscal position? Of course they don't. That does not make them bad, it's just a side of human nature - just like panic buying, coughing and spitting at pensioners and police, smashing car windows of NHS workers, stealing supplies from Ambulances. Not nice, but it happens.

 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I’m in a particularly unusual employment situation. I have been the sole UK based employee of a German company for the past 18 years. I work from home on a usual fixed monthly salary basis. There is no UK registered subsidiary company, so the Germans make a gross monthly GBP payment to a nominated UK Accountancy company, who handles my pay-roll and sends off both the employer and employee NIC deductions and the employee income tax directly to HMRC. The net remainder is paid into my bank account and a corresponding pay-slip provided.

As it stands I am still employed as normal, but my boss has already warned that at least short-time working is expected in our department soon due to the massive global downturn.

The first eligibility criterion of the new 80% payment UK Government furlough scheme is that it must be for a UK business. This must therefore count me out of benefiting from this as a potential future option, otherwise I would have been eligible for £2500 per month.

I fear it might be a similar situation with any upcoming self-employed salary legislation: I.e. you will need to be a registered UK business, which I am not. I do have an individual PAYE scheme, but on behalf of a German registered business only.

Germany itself has an established short-time working procedure, whereby the German Government helps top up most of any shortfall. Eg if your work is reduced to 4 days, the employer pays 80% and the Government chips in with most of the rest and indeed a slightly higher amount for employees with children like me. However I am neither a German tax payer nor citizen, so I won’t be eligible for that either. Like nearly all businesses, my employer is being hit hard by the situation and will continue to suffer for quite some time to come, so there is no spare money floating around for generous hand-outs.

Meanwhile, my wife works part-time: only about 10 hours per week at nigh on minimum wage. She has just been informed that she will be furloughed and unable to work from 01.04.20. Her 80% income will then be about £290 per month for the foreseeable future.

So if I do lose my job and am ineligible for any of these support schemes, that might be the only income we get: £290 per month to house and feed a family of 4.

[Bibs]

Remember that most most earned, taxed at source or not ends up as tax anyway. Tax on goods, tax on fuel, tax on the tax of fuel, council tax then even the guy that sold you the fuel pays tax on his profit and goes to to pay all the other taxes with what he's got left over. They end up with it all at some point! 

 

[C8RKH]

2 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Remember that most most earned, taxed at source or not ends up as tax anyway. Tax on goods, tax on fuel, tax on the tax of fuel, council tax. They end up with it all at some point! 

 

I agree. But then the more that is taxed as "earned" means you have less to spend on the stuff that gets taxed as sales (VAT) - hence the issue - two people earning £80k a year, the one who is PAYE has significantly less "free" cash to spend (or save) than the one who is self employed and limiting their contributions! And that's the rub for me in my industry when they are sat side by side doing the same job (which usually means the contractor is earning £120k pa, not £80k).

IR35 has eaten in to a lot of the benefits I know, but i it wasn't beneficial people would not do it. It was good for companies too as they saved on Employer NICs and other stuff.

[pete]

Lots of directors of small companies are only paid the minimum and the rest is made up of dividends which won't be covered by the 80%

[Sparky]

Eldest daughter now in isolation with her kids, as symptoms have started. Her other half is now unable to attend his job as COVID-19 coordinator at University College Hospital, for the next 14  days.

[pete]

So prince Charles has it

[Bibs]

I really like this guy - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52027342

[Colin P]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

It’s their job to minimise your tax liability.

 

Whilst I agree that this is what they do - hence my previous post and @C8RKH comments, this is not their job, or at least it isn't what it should be. It should be to ensure that "the correct and fair" amount of tax is paid. Because they and their employers (the self employed), understandably, take the approach of trying to minimise the tax payments there is a whole industry of trying to close loopholes etc.

As Andy said, same Gross income - PAYE pay massively more tax and end up massively less well off on a Net basis. Even against those that are honest in their returns.

So, it is right and fair that any compensation is based upon what they are declaring and paying tax on. It's a frustration for me, so those where this is "light" it is their own fault for playing the system and excuse me if I take a little comfort from it.