Coronavirus

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

That’s the same for most of the country.

[mg4lotus]

This Covid is a bastard. It's real and it's serious.

[Chillidoggy]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

Great, Tier 3 here. Bored as f*** of this now. 

Bugger!

Just as I was going to swing by yours with a load of beer, a hamper full of junk food and a bus load of Thanet nymphos. Guess it won’t happen now.

[Sparky]

Big bus then.

[march]

Lowest infection rate in the country  Yay - Go Teignbridge but in Tier 2 - WTF.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I’m actually quite surprised how successful this so far 3 week soft lockdown appears to have been in restricting transmission. Considering the vast majority of people are at work, kids are in schools, students in colleges and people are still going out and about, the number of new cases does seem to be on the way down overall. With the new Tier 2 & 3 restrictions in place for nearly everyone in England from next Thursday, the daily new case numbers could be really low by the time we get to Christmas.

[Chillidoggy]

2 hours ago, Sparky said:

Big bus then.

Double decker, mate.

[ChrisJ]

 

[USAndretti42]

9 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I’m actually quite surprised how successful this so far 3 week soft lockdown appears to have been in restricting transmission. Considering the vast majority of people are at work, kids are in schools, students in colleges and people are still going out and about, the number of new cases does seem to be on the way down overall. With the new Tier 2 & 3 restrictions in place for nearly everyone in England from next Thursday, the daily new case numbers could be really low by the time we get to Christmas.

I have the Covid-19 symptom tracker app on my phone and one of the scientific bods on there says that, because of the delay in infection showing up after exposure, the statistics imply that the tier system was having a positive effect.  The problem was the disparity in different parts of the country leading to the NHS being in danger of being overwhelmed in those areas.  It seems to me that it's a shame the government didn't worry about saving the NHS when it was effectively making cuts to it for the last 10 years.

[Bibs]

Just saying as I just saw this in the news, but £280,000,000,000 spent in the UK to date and 45,000 people who had a positive test within 28 days of passing is over £6,000,000 per death.

[tim_marra]

Best get one of those Sun Life over 50's plan then. June and Carol know it makes sense 

[ChrisJ]

[ChrisJ]

If you want to know what is happening in London watch Sky Australia

Nothing on the BBC

[C8RKH]

Interesting watch that @ChrisJ. Some of it echoes the conversations this morning on the Andrew Marr show when Politicians including Sturgeon were asked about the proposed Public Sector pay freeze (that doesn't include low paid and many NHS workers etc).  The response from the Politicians was to a person to laud the work of the Public Sector. What complete and utter bollocks!  As Andrew Marr stated they haven't lost their jobs. They haven't been furloughed and lost 25% of their income or more (if self employed) etc. No, as the guy from Sky said the Public Sector has just carried on having their meetings via Zoom!  The issue is that everything in the "Public Sector" is protected by the roles of the front line - we need to split the term "Public Sector" into two something like the "Front Sector" or "Essential Services sector" where you would have the NHS, first responders etc, and then the bureaucratic fukcwits and the rest of the Public Sector (Politicians, Teachers, Local Authority workers, Social Workers, Planners, yadda yadda" - many of whom wouldn't actually know what a full days work or employment hardship was in that bucket.  It would stop the "left" from protecting those overpaid, lazy fcukwits in that second class by hiding them behind the "front line" staff.

Oh and whilst we're at it lets have some doorstep clapping for the people who carried on working through this, often picking up the slack from their furloughed colleagues, who have kept the wheels of industry and commerce and paid the taxes and generated the cash to pay for the fcuking Public Sector. How about a bit of an appreciation for the worker who has worked and endured throughout this?  Where's Labour, the party of the "worker" (don't make me laugh, they're now the party for the "shirker") and their voice for the working person of the UK? What about the lorry drivers. The shop workers. The farmers. Etc. Do they not deserve a "clap" for their continued efforts. Their hard work. Or do they just not count?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I haven’t had a pay rise in my private sector job for several years. Just happy to have a job at all. Civil service folk: welcome to the real world.

[Bibs]

Did I read the other day that public sector are currently paid 8% more than private, hence this years pay freeze?

[PaulCP]

That’s before you look at their pension schemes and compare the benefits v contribution levels with the private sector.

[SFO]

6 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

That’s before you look at their pension schemes and compare the benefits v contribution levels with the private sector.

This is the hidden treasure for public sector workers as yields have plummeted in recent years due to super low interest rates and lots of helicopter money 

[C8RKH]

3 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Did I read the other day that public sector are currently paid 8% more than private, hence this years pay freeze?

Depends on what you are comparing.  A lot of public sector workers are low pay (cleaners, porters, etc.), but equally an awful lot are well paid and overpaid. Add in relatively good job security and a good benefits package  (sickness, holiday, pension etc) and life's not too bad eh?

In the private sector, yup. A lot more on minimum wage with poorer benefits and no real job security.

Obviously plenty in both private and public that are well paid for what they do, but generally the public benefits package usually beats the private and the job security is better for public too.

It's a hard life for them, that's probably why they need the extra!

 

 

 

 

 

[Barrykearley]

5 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

If you want to know what is happening in London watch Sky Australia

And this is exactly what is wrong with the current situation. Roll on the revolution.

[Kimbers]

16 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Depends on what you are comparing.  A lot of public sector workers are low pay (cleaners, porters, etc.), but equally an awful lot are well paid and overpaid. Add in relatively good job security and a good benefits package  (sickness, holiday, pension etc) and life's not too bad eh?

In the private sector, yup. A lot more on minimum wage with poorer benefits and no real job security.

 

My whole family is an example of all of this!

Wendy is a 16 year service nurse. She is band 6 so at Sister level and working as a specialist nurse. Bit like a Nursing practitioner she has her own patients who she responds to and see's regularly in the community. They all need specialist care. She earns £26,000 a year and has had a pay cut of 15% over the last 7 years, in real terms (5 years with no increase at all then 6% over 3 years). She just had her pension statement through to find out that 5 years ago they switched her to the "New scheme" which means she can no longer retire at 55 and has to work to 65. And even then her Pension is worth around £6000 a year. (on the old scheme it would have been closer to £12000)............PUBLIC SECTOR

Laura is a Registrar doing her Consultants exams. She earns £1000 a day if she wants to do an overtime (locumb) shift in charge of A&E or as a senior doctor. She's been in 7 years. She is single and I have no idea what she earns but would guess its a lot more than me!..........PUBLIC SECTOR

Joseph works at Burger King and has done for 3 years. Joe has Aspbergers and Burger King is his comfort zone. He's happy there and he's good, really good. Not only is he second only to the Manager in time there, but he works every hour he can get to help pay for his love of Motorbikes (He has an R3) and Gaming. Last week he had one day off which was cancelled as they had a member of staff injure themselves. He did 70-80 hours. he is on £8.20 an hour. He has also been offered a shift managers position twice only to see it taken away and given once to the Managers Girlfriend and the second time to the Regional Managers Wife.................PRIVATE SECTOR

I work as a Fleet Manager. I buy and sell cars and vans on our fleet specialising in Peugeot, Kia, FIAT, Honda and Citroen. My basic is in the late £20's and I earn commission. For many years my salary has been in excess of £60k this year I am £20k down. the biggest difference here is my Pension. I pay in as much as my wife per month but my pension is only worth £240 a month at 67 years old! However I also work as a Blue Light Worker on the front line part time. Full time during lockdown. I only get a mileage rate and food expenses as it's primarily a voluntary role. However volunteer Firefighters and even St Johns Ambo all get paid or a retainer to volunteer Blue lights, I chose the only one that doesn't. I do 30-100 hours a month in this second role..........PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SECTOR

I have explained this to show the disparity on both public and private sector. Is it fair that a nurse doing the job virtually of a doctor earns 4 times less than a doctor? Is it fair that my son works so hard and is so mistreated and yet I sit at home nice and warm and sell cars on the phone and earn 5-6 times more than he does for half the hours. You could argue that you need as much skill to sell a car as you do sell a burger or use a till! 

The whole system is skew whiff! its arse about face where a 19 year old can earn £30k a year and get a company car by being a trainee cars salesman yet a Police Officer, Paramedic or Nurse earns £25k after 3 years experience!

There needs to be a revaluation of roles and pay now. there really does.

 

[C8RKH]

38 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

There needs to be a revaluation of roles and pay now. there really does.

I fully agree with you @kimbers and the disparity is stark as you point out within the Public Sector, within the Private Sector, and across the two!

My daughter is at the start of her second career having joined the Police as a Constable a few months ago and having completed her first training and now rostered.  She is well paid for what she does/where she is, has a good "package" and even now a great pension for her later years. My son, works at a retail centre (Antiques - large place) and is a junior manager. He is paid slightly above minimum wage, can work long hours, has a basic stakeholder pension and package, but he's happy as it is very local, not hugely stressful and allows him the lifestyle right now her wants with "nice" people to work with in a "nice" environment.

So one of my kids is in a well paid private sector job with a great package, the other is in a not so well paid public sector job with a so-so package. However the important thing is they are both happy. Healthy. And doing well by their standards. Which to me, is all that matters.

Paying a locum £1000 per day is just wrong. I am sorry, but that is just obscene and I know it is supply and demand but given all the harping from some of the medical professionals re the "cash strapped Health System" it is sheer hypocrisy and  not value for money.  Pay the "locums" £500 a day and put the money saved into nurses pay!  Now, that would be radical and would not need another £xbn of tax payers money just thrown at the cash hoover that the NHS is. Same with teachers. A few of my neighbours are Teachers, mostly retired, all whinged about the job and yet as soon as they retired they went on the lists to hoover up cash as lucrative "supply" teachers, meanwhile, young fresh teachers struggle to get jobs and get their careers going as the Education Authorities always seem to advertise for teaching jobs but demand "experience".  Pretty hard to do when the "old" teachers are plugging the gap and raping the budgets.

The Public Sector needs to be broken down (no, I'm not saying it needs to be privatised) and the front line (social care (not workers!), nursing and health, police, fire) need to be taken out of the Public Pay bargaining constraints and they need to be dealt with on their own.

Teachers, local authorities, central government etc need to be dealt with locally. How can you justify a UK wide salary scheme when the local disparities in opportunities, cost of living etc are huge?  Local pay for local workers is how it needs to be.  But of course, the Public Sector, is the last bastion for the Unions, so the chance of real change and real transformation is buggered.

 

[SFO]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

But of course, the Public Sector, is the last bastion for the Unions, so the chance of real change and real transformation is buggered.

 

Spot on

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I know this might sound distasteful, but it’s not meant to be:

One of our neighbours had a senior management role at our County Council. I don’t know her exact role, but I think it was in the legal department, so very well paid.

Tragically she caught a very serious illness whilst still in their employment and has since been bed-ridden at home with 24 hour professional care. It’s an awful situation, but the Council has been paying her salary and providing her with round the clock at-home care ever since. 
 

I don’t remember the exact date, but it must be at least 10 years and counting now. Would she have got such long lasting financial support in the private sector? I’m not saying she wouldn’t, as I honestly don’t know.

[Colin P]

A couple of years ago my company retired off a staff member who had been on sick leave since shortly after I started. I just completed 30 years. Private sector.

Unfortunately the actual contribution of someone is rarely catered for in their salary. It is more how many people have the skillset, or the connections. What they bring to the table that is uncommon or in excess of the next candidate.

So whilst Kimbers may say that it takes no more skill to sell a car than a burger he will have connections and experience that others will not have. His son's job will be seen as "anyone off the street" and are often advertised via an electronic recruitment systems on a first come first served basis - expendable employees - just numbers. Same goes for my wife as she works in a supermarket. Struggled to get a job via the recruitment process because it is all automated, so she took her CV in and insisted on it being passed to the personnel manager. She is a fully trained manager, but since having the kids only looking for a regular store assistant role. Took all of 2 minutes for them to recruit her and they get the equivalent of about 3 peoples work out of her.

Only recently have people appreciated supermarket workers and you know what - they still treat them like something they have trodden in.

On the flip side I can work effectively from home, A level qualified, no degree or professional qualifications but I have a skillset at work that is uncommon and have actually presented CPD qualifying lectures (not sure how that works when you are not yourself qualified!!). I earn >10 times what she does and if I left for another company I could probably add 40-50% to that, but I like the company I work for (see above) and contrary to what @C8RKH might imply, I am proud to work for them because they do the right thing (OK, occasionally it may go wrong but when it does we will correct it).

Incidentally, I have never been put off buying a burger by the server, but I have been put off buying a car by a car salesman on several occasions.