Lotus Emira

[jimichanga]

Current ultimate possible spec is looking like 1300kg and 421bhp AMG four with DCT. Still not sure that would be enough for me, nor quite was Lotus were capable of making for their last ICE car.

[Evotion]

2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

My first company car was a Vauxhall Astra 1.7D “Merit”. No power steering, no turbo, no air con, no electric windows, in fact nothing of any merit whatsoever. It also needed an oil change every 3000 miles. What good is that if you’re driving 50,000+ miles p.a.? That’s 17 services per year!

Here’s one of each at a local classic car show a few years ago.

 

Damn I miss my Italian beauty.  I was in love with that car.   Great pic. Thanks. made my day.

2 hours ago, JimH said:

😉

Ha   - well, once car enthusiasts start bringing genuine sports classics it is hard to stop.

I thought asking to meet down a pub or "let's discuss more on a different forum" was a lit lame. 

Lotus time again!

2 hours ago, jimichanga said:

Right now is an amazing time for a Lotus fan with disposable income as you have the choice of last of the old school or first of the new school.

Perfectly said.  This might still be the perfect solution - get a new one and an old one.

[Evotion]

1 hour ago, jimichanga said:

Current ultimate possible spec is looking like 1300kg and 421bhp AMG four with DCT. Still not sure that would be enough for me, nor quite was Lotus were capable of making for their last ICE car.

Well, we know that is achievable with modifications and stripping out but it's kinda not the point of the car. 

You can do that though. My intention was to strip out the i4 a bit, carbon here and there, lighter exhaust for the track. I think 100kg can be removed. The power upgrade would be easy if somebody can unlock the ECU.  My current thinking is that it would be awful to change what Lotus have worked hard on perfecting and enjoy it for what it is - still a fast , very able, great looking sports car.

[Bibs]

1 hour ago, jimichanga said:

Current ultimate possible spec is looking like 1300kg and 421bhp AMG four with DCT. Still not sure that would be enough for me

For £60k... Read that all back to yourself!! 

Tough crowd! 

[DarrylV8]

@jimichangathe Esprit V8 350horses between 20kgs & 50kgs lighter than the Emira without the safety items etc. So why dish the Emira?

@Evotionno I didn’t film the drive up the hill, no massive shove in the back, but enough to highlight how bad the surface was; wet with a lot of mud of track

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

For £60k... Read that all back to yourself!! 

Tough crowd! 

Yes but come on @Bibs ffs - have you seen what you get in the new Dacia sandero?

[DarrylV8]

4 wheels & tyres and a steering wheel 

[jimichanga]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

For £60k... Read that all back to yourself!! 

Tough crowd! 

If that spec ever shows up it will be way more than £60k as you all know, base 4 cyl car with options will already go far beyond. I was hoping the final ICE Emira would end up more like 500bhp, 1300kg longitudinal mounted manual V6, ideally high revving na but willing to accept compromise there all in a much sleeker body with low roofline. Either way GT3 slayer not budget Evora.

Edited July 20, 2021 by jimichanga

[DJW]

Re spec, as the car is no lightweight, I see no point in further weight saving options. I don’t see it as a track toy so any options related there can go.  If it was a daily driver I can see a need for some creature and convenience features 

However for me it’s a weekend toy and therefore I’m struggling to feel a need for majority of the options. That could be a challenge with an early’ish deposit that would mean a FE at extra cost or slip down the queue for base cars.  
 

Hmmmmmm

Edited July 20, 2021 by DJW

[Evotion]

You could wait for a GT4 road car or some future version with no options added and possibly the opportunity to remove weight.  I can see myself getting a performance version down the road.

You could get a base one now, enjoy it and the part-ex it for something else later.

In your particular case though I would likely get an Exige which is truly a weekend toy and also fabulous.

[jimichanga]

I would also get an Emira and an Exige over two Emiras in your situation. You loved the Exige in the video and stripping out an Emira makes no sense to me, will cost a fortune and still will be much heavier and less exciting than an Exige plus no-one else will want it when Lotus do the factory lighter faster version.

[duncx]

At lunchtime today I was standing outside my place of work. I could hear a 4 pot DCT car somewhere on the industrial estate giving it some, high revs and rifle bullet gear changes with a crack & pop for each change - hmmm.

I really hope that the V6 Emira isn't going to be too expensive

[bosshog]

1 hour ago, jimichanga said:

If that spec ever shows up it will be way more than £60k as you all know, base 4 cyl car with options will already go far beyond. I was hoping the final ICE Emira would end up more like 500bhp, 1300kg longitudinal mounted manual V6, ideally high revving na but willing to accept compromise there all in a much sleeker body with low roofline. Either way GT3 slayer not budget Evora.

I’m with you on this point. I was definitely underwhelmed when the Emira was launched. Let’s not kid ourselves here it’s basically an Evora done ‘right’ for mass market appeal.  Having had 2x Evora’s I was really hoping there was also going to move the performance game on, as well as the interior/build quality. I expected in reality it was going to be the old V6 but it would of been great to breath more life into it and have a better box that could handle some more torque .  I do have deposit but I’m really on the fence as it’s not the ‘last ever ICE car’ I was hoping for. It’s great looking car and the interior is leagues ahead from the 4xx by the look of it. But I can’t see it being much different from a 4xx in terms of driving enjoyment and whilst  that’s no bad thing - as it’s got to be one of the best driving GT sports cars full stop - it would of been killer if they have upped the performance (I’m basically talking torque rather than bhp) purely from my personal perspective to differentiate it enough from the Evora’s. Currently I’m not sure it does. 

 

[jimichanga]

3 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

@jimichangathe Esprit V8 350horses between 20kgs & 50kgs lighter than the Emira without the safety items etc. So why dish the Emira?

@Evotion

Because the Esprit V8 was launched in the 90’s and Lotus have given us a lot more since, not least 70bhp more and 300kg less than the Emira ‘in its lightest possible form’, could easily be 400kg lighter than loaded V6 Emira. That’s the Exige obviously but we also had the 311 and the even the much more civilised Evora GT430 was 100kg lighter than the 4 cyl Emira.
 

Great for Lotus that they’ve made a car for many more in the US and China to enjoy but some of us were hoping the last Lotus ICE sports car would be a bigger step on. Totally get what they’re doing and it’s already proven to be the right thing to do for the business. I would have preferred they focused on SUVs for volume and profits and let the last ICE car be the thing we always wanted to see - Lotus innovation and genius with a big development budget, to see them trounce the competition rather than just play catch-up but that’s not what Geely signed off and I accept that. Doesn’t mean I have to like what we are being offered instead though. At least out of touch types like me have the chance of getting an FE car. One last chance to own one of the purest of the pure drivers cars from new is terrific just never imagined we’d be at this point so soon.

[Giniw]

14 hours ago, ewand said:

I don't completely buy the "it's all new" argument; yes, sure, it's not the same architecture as the Evora/Exige but it's hardly light years ahead in construction or anything, is it? I mean, we're still talking bonded/extruded aluminium tub

Well, a similar construction material doesn't mean it hasn't improved a lot. Engineering improves a lot over time, so it could be very different despite using an aluminium extruded chassis.

[Likuid]

8 hours ago, jimichanga said:

 I was hoping the final ICE Emira would end up more like 500bhp, 1300kg longitudinal mounted manual V6

Yeah, I was hoping the top 'o the line Emira was going to get close to the 500HP mark as well. After they said it would be 2-seater only I was hoping that extra space was going to be utilized for more than luggage space, which is what it already essentially was in the Evora for most people anyways. While I understand that they have redesigned certain bits of the chassis its hard not to see the Emira as a re-skinned Evora with more modern looks and a better interior. While I have no issue with that, because the Evora was a great car, offering similar power to the Evora and using the same Toyota V6 and not even attempting to take it beyond what we have already seen is questionable to me. Makes me think very little investment was put into the Emira. I kind of feel Geely doesn't really give a shit about the Emira and probably did not offer a ton of investment for the project, they obviously care more about the electric future and SUVs.

While it seems there is some hype behind the Emira, I think once everyone gets used to the looks and new interior they are going to fall back to wanting more performance. From a business stand point I don't understand why Lotus didn't come out with more of the bang when it comes to the performance. Essentially offering comparable power to your competitors doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Lotus isn't Porsche. They don't have dealers everywhere and the brand cache has taken a significant hit over the decades, you need some more bait to bring in people IMO. Its not like the Emira offers more tech the the competition. The looks may help it sell well (for a Lotus) for a year, but just think of how much more interest there would have been if they also clearly beat the competition in performance as well. I have a feeling interest will fall off pretty quickly if its another round of Emira losing to the competition in head-to-head tests and constantly trying to playing catch up just like the Evora. Maybe I am wrong. Hopefully Lotus has some tricks up their sleeve.

It reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Lisa creates a new Barbie-like doll that all the girls want and then Barbie comes out with a version with a new hat and nothing else different and no one wants Lisa's doll anymore. "Oooo the Emira looks so great! Lovely interior!" Porsche: "Check out the new Cayman, looks just like the old one, but has a couple more small vents on the side." Everyone: "Emira who?"

Edited July 21, 2021 by Likuid

[DarrylV8]

@jimichangayes and the Emira is not an Elise/Exige, indeed it is not an Evora although I have previously stated the Emira is lighter than Evora S IPS. 

Would be very surprised if Lotus in the Emira life span don’t bring out a Cup/GT430 version but if anyone seriously thought Lotus would have been able to/wanted to have all variations from the getgo then you only need to look at what every car manufacturer has done with each of their models. The carbon fibre stripped out high performance Emira is not going to be under £60K if that is want you want then think you are going to have to wait a few years; with price tag to match the GT430 run of cars?

[Bravo73]

6 hours ago, Giniw said:

…so it could be very different

It’s not. 

[cuprapw]

4 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

@jimichangayes and the Emira is not an Elise/Exige, indeed it is not an Evora although I have previously stated the Emira is lighter than Evora S IPS. 

Would be very surprised if Lotus in the Emira life span don’t bring out a Cup/GT430 version but if anyone seriously thought Lotus would have been able to/wanted to have all variations from the getgo then you only need to look at what every car manufacturer has done with each of their models. The carbon fibre stripped out high performance Emira is not going to be under £60K if that is want you want then think you are going to have to wait a few years; with price tag to match the GT430 run of cars?

Emira in its lightest form is lighter than Evora S IPS, let's see what the "standard" Emira weight is....

[jimichanga]

I heard on very good authority that the Emira V6 was going to get 450bhp from a bigger supercharger, presumably Harrop TVS 1900. Clearly they decided against this at launch and will offer incremental improvements over time like many competitors do. Quite possible of course that the V6 is short lived and never sees more power, future fast versions more likely to be 4cyl. Doesn’t make me want one of the intentionally held back cars any more though.

I don’t think one day hoping to matching a Lotus launched in 2017 is particularly impressive, seems like buying a GT430 now is far preferable to waiting another 3 years or whatever for something comparable. But Lotus has been proved right by the response. Much agree with @Likuid but we are wrong, the one thing they appear to have fixed is the pricing issue even though this is still to be confirmed and highly likely to slide upwards in response to demand. For whatever combination of reasons people just won’t pay past a certain level for a Lotus, however good. Even with all the finance deals people seem to draw the line past £80k. Few diehards have the money and few wealthier buyers want a Lotus so quickly becomes a no sell zone. Emira is perceived to represent good value for its as yet unconfirmed price, something we haven’t seen from Lotus in years. There will be people paying more for a FE Elise than an Emira. It remains to be seen what the Emira really costs but the ‘sub £60kg’ thing really seems to have unlocked demand. Still disappointed by the car personally but a 500bhp car couldn’t be done for £60k. Somehow a 360bhp AMG car can apparently and for the money it does seem like a lot of car.

[freefall_junkie]

11 hours ago, DJW said:

However for me it’s a weekend toy and therefore I’m struggling to feel a need for majority of the options. That could be a challenge with an early’ish deposit that would mean a FE at extra cost or slip down the queue for base cars.  

This is an issue for me too. I hope I am earlyish in the queue too having placed a deposit first thing the morning after the launch, but I really don't want 12 way electric seats, fancy stereo, or any other gubbins that doesn't improve the driving experience. All depends what the FE costs vs my choice of spec and how long the wait would be for the the latter. 

Another point for those wringing their hands over the weight. The Evora 410 was faster than the Exige V6 350 round Hethel even though it weighs a lot more, and I'd be pretty surprised it the V6 Emira on Cup tyres isn't quicker still. 

[jimichanga]

13 minutes ago, cuprapw said:

Emira in its lightest form is lighter than Evora S IPS, let's see what the "standard" Emira weight is....

Yes that’s for 4 cyl car with next to no options. Loaded V6 car could easily be pushing towards 1500kg. Not that many here or elsewhere will care mind you. If low kerbweight sold cars there would be no SUVs and Lotus would be on every street.

[cuprapw]

24 minutes ago, freefall_junkie said:

This is an issue for me too. I hope I am earlyish in the queue too having placed a deposit first thing the morning after the launch, but I really don't want 12 way electric seats, fancy stereo, or any other gubbins that doesn't improve the driving experience. All depends what the FE costs vs my choice of spec and how long the wait would be for the the latter. 

Another point for those wringing their hands over the weight. The Evora 410 was faster than the Exige V6 350 round Hethel even though it weighs a lot more, and I'd be pretty surprised it the V6 Emira on Cup tyres isn't quicker still. 

An evora 410 is faster than a 350 ok, the 350 using Corsa's 

An evora 410 is slower than a Exige 380 using both cups

An evora 430GT is slower than a exige cup 430 both using cups (you cannot hide 200kg)

Edited July 21, 2021 by cuprapw

[Frickin_idiot]

17 hours ago, jimichanga said:

Totally get the reaction to Emira has justified the strategy to abandon the obsession with lightweight and make a Lotus available to those who may have liked the Elise/Exige but just couldn’t live with getting in and out. Why they weren’t encouraged to try an Evora remains a mystery as is how a car so similar could create such a different response but very happy for Lotus that it appears to have worked out. Just still surprised that so many here who have walked past the likes of the Cayman and paid more for an Evora or Exige think so much of it too. Appreciate that is just another measure of its success that it seems to be appealing to both current Lotus owners as well as those new to the brand. I just figured weight and purity meant more to people here. Right now is an amazing time for a Lotus fan with disposable income as you have the choice of last of the old school or first of the new school. In theory everyone should be happy. I don’t believe they have done enough to move the car on from Evora at least not in ways that appeal to me. As the last ever ICE Lotus that feels like a missed opportunity for a next level drivers car. Hopefully that will still come before the last ICE Emira rolls out of Hethel.

I was one of those persons. I walked past a Porsche and into the Evora (albeit from an Exige). Why you may ask?

The Porsche 911 that I drove was great in every way but lacked something that is difficult to articulate. Quick? Yes, but it didn't give me the same feel as the Evora or Exige. To me the 911 felt like a fast Mondeo - it felt artificial.

I have a few friends who own 911's and the running costs were absolutely horrendous - every service seemed to cost in excess of 3k. Coil packs seemed to be of particular concern.

Finally the Lotus is something that isn't seen on every street corner. Ultimately the success of Porsche has pushed me away from the brand as they are far too common place.

I am sure that others will have the opposite opinion. It was a fantastic car - just not for me.

[freefall_junkie]

5 minutes ago, cuprapw said:

An evora 410 is faster than a 350 ok, the 350 using Corsa's 

An evora 410 is slower than a Exige 380 using both cups

An evora 430GT is slower than a exige cup 430 both suing cups (you cannot hide 200kg)

Yes, no denying the laws of physics, and even an Exige Cup is a bit of a lard-ass compared to a Caterham 🙂 The Emira is still going to be a decently quick car though, and probably few owners, me included, will be capable of extracting the absolute max from it on track.