Type 132 - Lotus Eletre

[ramjet]

Well, I am officially an idiot.

After clicking in all sorts of places for the last 10 minutes, I cannot find the configurator for love nor money.

[exeterjeep]

I'm on uk site....https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/eletre/configure/?model=Lambda&config=N4IgpgdgbglgTgewgW0gFxALlDAJlkAWQQFcI0BDGCEAXwBoQBjC1OCrHfTEAIQGUA%2BgGEkAMxgBzQQFEAHmkEAJKQAtBAJTAU4g1BQDOJOGFTkDdRk3FTOIPAQAyrAEa4OjBAAc0MJBexmG0ksAG0%2BAEEAEQBxGUEATRlHRwB5AHUQRmEIxwBJAAUZDUTktMzGGQANABVBQlSAOQBpGQTBZrzGmKyQLrqGlraOrp7GBojGiJAAXVoGEAoIGGQKX38wuaA

[ramjet]

Hmm. I seem to be stuck in the black hole of media.lotuscars.com

I can't break freeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@exeterjeep's link came up with the car in red. I'm finished. That was quick.

[Beady]

The green on the configurator is what I REALLY want for my Emira.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I seem to be in the minority here, but I think it looks rather underwhelming. As a skateboard EV only, they could have designed something revolutionary, rather than what looks like just another evolution of the 2 box ICE engined Luxo-SUV tottering on its 23 inch stillettos. I particularly don’t care for the front. Not that it matters: I doubt I will ever own an SUV as long as estate cars are still produced. Just not my cup of tea.

One other observation. There’s very little comment yet about this being manufactured in China. That has always been one of the brickbats thrown at MG since they reappeared. Maybe this is the final word on globalisation?

[MJON]

It’s BIG, have I read this correctly is the boot only 400Ltrs⁉️No matter, it’s not one for me.

[ramjet]

There is another 77 litres in the 'froot'. (apparently that is what the cool kids are calling it)

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

My Passat Estate apparently has 650 litres of boot space with the rear seats in their normal upright position. Why bother with an SUV? 😉

[exeterjeep]

Defo big, larger than the wife's evoque, bigger than the RR sport, but the same sort of size as the full fat RR. Around 9 inches longer than the Cayenne. And its wide  - some of our roads are only 6 ft 6inches wide....

[5pence]

It looks nice (for an SUV) though doesn't excite me unfortunately.  

Complicate and add weight?

 

[ramjet]

Ok. I went back and changed a couple of things. And I ended up with basically the same as the Emira.

Red exterior. Tan interior. Yellow Calipers. Black wheels.

The end.

$'s? I have no idea, but I won't be getting one next week. Or this year even. And I will admit to being wary of Made in China. I have seen far too many inbuilt design flaws to make whatever you have, fail or rust away so that you buy a new one.

Or is this made in the world and then assembled in China?

[exeterjeep]

12 minutes ago, ramjet said:

Or is this made in the world and then assembled in China?

Would guess most made in China. Also I suppose the body is made of metal so will eventually rust. No idea of car warranty or battery warranty? 

If I had placed a deposit a month or so ago, think I would be getting it back. Or switching it to a 134 if that was open for deposits  now.

[ramjet]

Not aluminium bodied?

[DarrylV8]

I thought I had read somewhere that it’s aluminium and carbon body

[exeterjeep]

When one sees it in the flesh, will have to try sticking a magnet to it?

[electro_boy]

Mixed feelings about the Eletre, I think the design is OK certainly very different and bold design, individual details are very cool but not sure I like whole thing.  

I was surprised by just how big the car is, there can't be much out there thats bigger than it?  Don't think it will make a good daily driver in the UK but then at £100K+ I don't think its intended as daily driver.  I've no idea what a high end daily car costs these days so maybe that is acceptable? Let's hope the people it's designed for will find it appealing and buy lots of them.  

I think Lotus are aiming towards the higher end in general with all their cars so I don't see them making anything small and cheap like Renault Zoe but I hope the next few cars are smaller proportioned and aimed at a bit more everyday usability.

 

One thing I've picked up on from a few comments on here and other websites, I really don't understand the concerns of made in China? 

China is one of the best if not the best manufacturing nations in the world.  They manufacture things to a specification.  If that specification is low end then the product and its manufacture end up low end.  If that specification is high end then the product is manufactured using higher quality materials and better build quality.

There are many high end brands manufacturing things in China and their products are considered to be very good.  As long as Lotus design the product well and have a high specification for the manufacture of the product and choose reliable partners to build it, I don't see what the problem is.

 

[exeterjeep]

1 minute ago, electro_boy said:

Don't think it will make a good daily driver in the UK but then at £100K+ I don't think its intended as daily driver.

Think the new RR starts around £94k. If I had that I would certainly want as a daily driver (but I won't)

[JimH]

First car I've seen in ages, from any manufacturer, that will probably look better with a front registration plate (especially a white UK one) to break up some of that blackness.....

[Bravo73]

2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Why bother with an SUV? 

An elevated driving position, for one thing. Perceived status is another. 

[exeterjeep]

15 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

Perceived status is another. 

All those RR's taking their kids to school in London and Manchester(+others) when there is 0.0001mm of ice and snow on the ground.

[eUKenGB]

2 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

An elevated driving position, for one thing. Perceived status is another. 

I agree about the driving position as that also means a bigger more visible car. I've recently been driving a particularly small sports car and in the last couple of weeks have twice nearly been run off the road by other cars. The first was the worst case of outright bullying I have ever experienced. 2 lanes merging and having let the car beside me to go in front, the car behind him (large SUV) decided to try and follow (by overtaking me) and barge me out of the way. Needless to say I did not oblige, but his big front wheel got very close to my drivers window.

The other was someone belatedly realising they needed to take the exit off the M25 and being so engrossed with his mobile phone simply did not look hard enough to see me.

Bot those could have resulted in significant 'contact' had I not reacted fast enough. This sort of behaviour enrages, but doesn't frighten me. Other less 'assertive' drivers would be very intimidated and so having a higher driving position, in a larger taller vehicle is then considered safer and more secure. Whilst I don't NEED that, I can understand the desire.

As for "perceived status", it's an oft quoted criticism of SUVs in general and I think it's BS. For the above reasons and also for the interior space they provide, SUVs are hugely practical and if you have no desire to tear-arse around the roads at max velocity, then they are a very sensible choice. Someone poncing around in a flashy 911 (insert any other fancy sports car) is far more concerned with status than the average mother ferrying her kids around and who in all likelihood has no interest in cars or any 'status', whether perceived or not.

Edited March 30, 2022 by eUKenGB

[eUKenGB]

I've done a bit of a comparison (attached below), to put the 132 into perspective.

I think its closest rival at the moment is the Jaguar I-Pace which I happen to like enormously as it is a great car. Fast and exhilarating to drive as well as very good looking both inside and out. Much as I like and admire Lotus, I think Jaguar has a higher perceived 'value', having always been a manufacturer of luxury cars. Not so much Lotus.

All those EVs are stunning performers and whether 0-60 is achieved in 4 or 3 seconds is irrelevant to actual road use. No-one and I mean NO-ONE takes off from traffic lights to get to 60 in such ludicrously short times (and keeps their license). So let's just say, they're all quick enough.

Correct actual power and torque figures can be hard to obtain, especially e.g. Tesla and I've seen many different figures quoted. In many respects the 0-60 times is probably the simplest comparison, although beware Tesla (again) who cheat and their times are often from a rolling start. IOW, not really 0-60 at all. The Eletre data is also not clear at this stage. If it will be available from 600 - 1000hp, which variant can claim 2.9 secs to 60? I cannot see them quoting anything but the shortest time and so that's likely to be the high power version. So the low power (600 hp) one will in that case take longer. Anyway, the figures must be viewed with a critical eye.

My main concern however is the pricing.  I cannot see a base price of the Eletre at £100k as being realistic when compared to those other SUVs. Makes it look a very expensive car and much as I like it, I'm not sure it's that good. There is also the fact it is Chinese built and based on a Chinese designed platform. In truth, I don't care a toss about that and firmly believe the Chinese can put together a better built car than the Brits, who have repeatedly shot themselves in both feet with shoddy manufacturing and hence there is no longer ANY actual British car manufacturer. However, I am not necessarily the typical customer for the Eletre and many prospective purchasers of a £100k car will avoid anything with such Chinese connections. So I think at that price it will be a very hard sell.

Ignoring the Chinese connection, it still looks very expensive next to the competition. Would you buy that instead of e.g. the cheaper Taycan Cross Tourismo? I'm not convinced it is worth any more than the even lower priced I-Pace.

I realise that Lotus themselves have not yet confirmed (to me) pricing, but one media review of the Eletre stated it was starting at £100k. They may be wrong and I sincerely hope so, but even at £80k, how does it then stack up to the competition? Still not a slam dunk - certainly not with Toyota and Lexus now in full swing with some very interesting EVs in the offing at very much lower projected prices.

Seems to me that entering the EV game is being seen by many manufacturers as a way to hoist pricing in the hope that customers won't notice. However, while I'm sure Porsche can get away with it, Lotus does not have the same reputation and trying to outprice Porsche doesn't seem a smart move to me.

Or maybe I just want a cheap car. 😀

Edited March 30, 2022 by eUKenGB

[exeterjeep]

I also wonder how well the 132 will fair with depreciation,  especially if it is too expensive and also the impact of being Made in China.

[NedaSay]

28 minutes ago, eUKenGB said:

I've done a bit of a comparison (attached below), to put the 132 into perspective.

I think its closest rival at the moment is the Jaguar I-Pace which I happen to like enormously as it is a great car. Fast and exhilarating to drive as well as very good looking both inside and out. Much as I like and admire Lotus, I think Jaguar has a higher perceived 'value', having always been a manufacturer of luxury cars. Not so much Lotus.

All those EVs are stunning performers and whether 0-60 is achieved in 4 or 3 seconds is irrelevant to actual road use. No-one and I mean NO-ONE takes off from traffic lights to get to 60 in such ludicrously short times (and keeps their license). So let's just say, they're all quick enough.

Correct actual power and torque figures can be hard to obtain, especially e.g. Tesla and I've seen many different figures quoted. In many respects the 0-60 times is probably the simplest comparison, although beware Tesla (again) who cheat and their times are often from a rolling start. IOW, not really 0-60 at all. The Eletre data is also not clear at this stage. If it will be available from 600 - 1000hp, which variant can claim 2.9 secs to 60? I cannot see them quoting anything but the shortest time and so that's likely to be the high power version. So the low power (600 hp) one will in that case take longer. Anyway, the figures must be viewed with a critical eye.

My main concern however is the pricing.  I cannot see a base price of the Eletre at £100k as being realistic when compared to those other SUVs. Makes it look a very expensive car and much as I like it, I'm not sure it's that good. There is also the fact it is Chinese built and based on a Chinese designed platform. In truth, I don't care a toss about that and firmly believe the Chinese can put together a better built car than the Brits, who have repeatedly shot themselves in both feet with shoddy manufacturing and hence there is no longer ANY actual British car manufacturer. However, I am not necessarily the typical customer for the Eletre and many prospective purchasers of a £100k car will avoid anything with such Chinese connections. So I think at that price it will be a very hard sell.

Ignoring the Chinese connection, it still looks very expensive next to the competition. Would you buy that instead of e.g. the cheaper Taycan Cross Tourismo? I'm not convinced it is worth any more than the even lower priced I-Pace.

I realise that Lotus themselves have not yet confirmed (to me) pricing, but one media review of the Eletre stated it was starting at £100k. They may be wrong and I sincerely hope so, but even at £80k, how does it then stack up to the competition? Still not a slam dunk - certainly not with Toyota and Lexus now in full swing with some very interesting EVs in the offing at very much lower projected prices.

Seems to me that entering the EV game is being seen by many manufacturers as a way to hoist pricing in the hope that customers won't notice. However, while I'm sure Porsche can get away with it, Lotus does not have the same reputation and trying to outprice Porsche doesn't seem a smart move to me.

Or maybe I just want a cheap car. 😀

The Taycan is a very tempting vehicle if you are in the market but it is smaller not that this is the criteria why people buy these things. Maccan and Cayenne EV's are not available yet   I-Pace are in another category compact SUV or D segment while Eletre is in the E-segment. The only vehicle in the list to compete with Eletre is Tesla X Plaid and another one you haven't listed BMW iX M60 which is the most similar competitor from Europe right now, however Cullinan EV and Bentayga EV are in the pipeline.

Type 134 will compete versus Maccan and I-Pace on price. it is not Eletre' job, which is to hunt Cayenne Turbo, Lamborghini Urus, Bentley Bentayga and the likes, at 94k entry price, it is quite good value with the standard kit. We have to bear in mind it is not designed to work in the UK, not even really  in mainland Europe but China and the US. It is expected that China will get the bulk of the orders for it hence the configuration it was unveiled in.  Still it may find a niche market with the lads and WAGS of premiership if Lotus UK agents could sell 500 to 1000 of these it would be a success already. I think they are looking  at Cayenne  sales volume so 50000 vehicles produced annually

For the "more affluent but not quite as wealthy common man"  the Type 134 will be the go to crossover for the brand, it will be freed of all the uber luxury gadgets, more Emira and less Evija, it shall be more compact, lighter, simpler but with an eye watering option list, it will sell in bigger volumes 75k to 90k vehicles per annum. And because Lotus was initially going to produce that vehicle first, its development must be really advanced already.

The Type 133 will complete the trinity of higher volume cars that will prop Lotus Group in the Porsche megasphere. where Geely wants them to be. Lotus was supposed to share its Wuhan factory 3 years ago. Now they get one for themselves with capacity for 150k vehicles per annum.

[eUKenGB]

With respect, if Lotus think they will be competing against Bentley and Lamborghini, they've got their heads well and truly up where the sun don't shine.

I also don't see the I-Pace as competing with the Macan but although the Eletre is a bit larger, I think it is close enough to the I-Pace to be a competitor.

The Taycan is not an SUV I realise, but the Cross Tourismo is certainly in that direction and if the Eletre is at £100k, I know what most buyers would go for. Porsche have built a reputation and demand for their cars. Lotus have not managed to do that yet (in a good way) and they won't do it by trying to charge more than Porsche.

The Cayenne and Macan I included in the table are of course the current ICE models, just by way of comparison as no data on the EV versions, but in any case why would the EV prices be different? Only if the manufacturers are trying to pull a fast one. Which means the new Cayenne EV will likely be 10% or so more, but that is still a lot less than £100k.

Of course the actual price of the Eletre is still just speculation.