Wet footwell and disappointing dealership experience

[MrBlueSky]

Looking for your thoughts on my issue.

Bought my GT410 new in May last year. All great until I notice it is steaming up continuously once parked.  Check under carpets and both footwells soaking. Returned to dealer. When I pick up after being told it is dried, tested and fixed I find the passenger side soaking. 

So has it been dried, examined but unfortunately not fully fixed and then leaked whilst on the forecourt or is it a sign of a half arsed job. I had to return home and pull up the passenger carpets to dry myself and strangely there was a lot of dust etc around this carpet which I would have assumed would have been shaken away if the carpet had been removed before. The driver's side was dry and the carpet had far less dust, indicating to me it had been removed at some point.

Any advice on window seals and what my reasonable expectations might be for dealership response on what was for me an expensive new car.

 

[jep]

Frustrating.

Even the very best main dealers make mistakes. Chat with the service department, book back in, hopefully a courtesy car is provided. 

Both my Evora (2010 and 2017) are bone dry inside and they do see rain. It may be a blocked drainage hole.

It will be fixed, for free. Remain polite and calm, your warranty will cover repair by any main dealer, so you can try another if the current one fails again. 

Justin

 

[Cdm2018]

Is there any alternate dealership you can use ? 

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, MrBlueSky said:

Any advice on window seals and what my reasonable expectations might be for dealership response on what was for me an expensive new car.

The water might not actually be coming in via the door seals. 

This previous thread covers an alternative source of moisture:

 

[jerzybondov]

I’ve had a leak into the passenger footwell and it was something to do with the heater matrix.

[MrBlueSky]

53 minutes ago, jep said:

Frustrating.

Even the very best main dealers make mistakes. Chat with the service department, book back in, hopefully a courtesy car is provided. 

Both my Evora (2010 and 2017) are bone dry inside and they do see rain. It may be a blocked drainage hole.

It will be fixed, for free. Remain polite and calm, your warranty will cover repair by any main dealer, so you can try another if the current one fails again. 

Justin

 

Yes, it will be fixed, but perhaps only because of my own investigations and doggedness. Awaiting a follow-up call from service department and will obviously remain calm and polite.

Will be very disappointed if I have to seek an alternative dealer miles away. That surely last resort and sign of extremely poor customer service. Fingers crossed.

48 minutes ago, Cdm2018 said:

Is there any alternate dealership you can use ? 

Nothing remotely close so would be a real pain if I felt necessary to move.

[MrBlueSky]

45 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

The water might not actually be coming in via the door seals. 

This previous thread covers an alternative source of moisture:

 

Many thanks for highlighting this. I had read it but assumed probably not relevant as it was on a 2009 car so design would have been revised, or that the service/dealer would have know to look for this. The service manager was very confident it was the window seals.....but I've just checked and my drain holes in the scuttle were fairly blocked with leaves and a large bird feather. 

Would have thought they might have considered this possibility?

I'll lay down power towels and see if I can determine water route in.

Strange feeling having to do this on my new car. Sold my 40year old TR7 to buy the Evora because it was a bit tiresome keeping the water out.

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, MrBlueSky said:

Many thanks for highlighting this. I had read it but assumed probably not relevant as it was on a 2009 car so design would have been revised, or that the service/dealer would have know to look for this.

I think that you might be assuming too much about how Lotus develop their cars and fix ongoing issues. I’m pretty sure that I’ve read reports on here about this issue occurring to more modern Evoras. That was just the first thread that I found about the issue. 

You might also be assuming too much about the experience level at the ‘main dealer’. You haven’t said who the particular dealer is. There have been quite a few new franchises awarded recently so the experience level within a particular service department might not extend much beyond what the service manuals tell them. 

[jerzybondov]

Not sure where you’re based but Bell and Colvill in Guildford knew exactly where to look to track down my footwell leak.

[MrBlueSky]

Thanks for responses.

I'm up north so B&C too far to travel unfortunately.

Yes, perhaps my expectations are too high but one would think that any serious service department, established or new, acting on a brand like Lotus might have the enthusiasm to seek out effective fixes first time round, rather than rely on customer diagnosis.

I'm not a newbie to Lotus and had two Elises purchased from main dealer. Just hoped things might have moved to a more professional level in the intervening years. Anyway, I'll not name the dealer and give them some space to see how to resolve without mud slinging. And I'll away and enjoy driving without getting hung up on negativity.

Cheers

[jerzybondov]

It'll get sorted and in a few weeks it'll seem like a distant memory

[Bruss]

5 hours ago, MrBlueSky said:

Thanks for responses.

I'm up north so B&C too far to travel unfortunately.

Yes, perhaps my expectations are too high but one would think that any serious service department, established or new, acting on a brand like Lotus might have the enthusiasm to seek out effective fixes first time round, rather than rely on customer diagnosis.

I'm not a newbie to Lotus and had two Elises purchased from main dealer. Just hoped things might have moved to a more professional level in the intervening years. Anyway, I'll not name the dealer and give them some space to see how to resolve without mud slinging. And I'll away and enjoy driving without getting hung up on negativity.

Cheers

I really don't think your expectations are too high. Its a fault that should be sorted by your Lotus dealer, whatever the cause. I'm a long tern Lotus owner (since about 1973) and this is the sort of thing that continues giving Lotus a bad name. It should be called out for what it is. Sloppy service.

 

 

 

[jep]

Hardly unique to Lotus. Be it main dealers, which I rarely use if given a choice, or specialist mechanics I have many experiences of repairs going awry. Mechanical and technical problems are not always a first time fix. 

Everyone deserves a second opportunity.

Justin

 

[MrBlueSky]

Thanks, appreciate all the feedback. I fully agree that it can be difficult to get to the bottom of some car issues. Certainly had a few weird ones in the past that took a lot of investigation, and a water leak can be the worst to fix, however I need to know that the service department are actively working to do their best. 

I notice that there is a slight gap (with door closed window fully up) between window and door seal towards the rear of the passenger door. Is this a likely culprit  and possibly difficult to resolve?

Anyone with door seal leak experience?

[LOTUSMAN33]

I feel your pain being a new vehicle having faults, water leaks are among the worst as it makes the car smell and quite unpleasant to use with condensation. I agree with all that’s said, it will be simple and likely a blocked drain tube, water getting past the seals or penetrations. 
I’ve had leaks on many cars over the years and bought a new Mondeo once, the dealer searched endlessly for the water leak changing seals, removing the headlining to confirm the sunroof tubes were attached, vac smoke testing and the list went on. In the end a forum member said check the rear lights which myself and the dealer dismissed as the boot was dry. On further investigation he was correct with the boot carpet up the water was tracking along the stiffening ribs in the boot pan. Lights removed, resealed and the problem was fixed and never leaked again. At one point I was ready to throw the towel in but my dealer was so good and once fixed replaced the complete carpet in the car and attached underlay.

Unrelated to Lotus or water leaks - My only terrible dealer experience was the purchase of a new Kawasaki ER6-N in 2013 as a work commuter bike, I test rode the demonstration model for a whole day which was great for unfaired small bike so bought a new one they had in the showroom. I collected it 5 days later all happy only to find as I started the engine terrible vibration. I immediately removed my helmet and got the manager and service dept out to listen. Both parties assured me this was normal and would settle once the bike bedded in, well as you can imagine it got worse and I always run bikes in to the book. After two visits and contacting Kawasaki direct on several occasions I was just told it was part of the bike’s characteristic despite arguing. After 3 months of numb feet, hands and ass I tried to P/X it for another bike where they offered me a ridiculous figure. So cross I decided to ride the bike a week later to a dealer some 60 miles away on a dual carriageway where at 70 mph the vibration became unbearable, I pulled the clutch in to release drive and pull over when the engine destroyed itself. On recovery the 3 month old bike was returned to the dealer who then tried to claim I had over revved the bike, it took a further 4 months of arguing to get resolution and a replacement engine installed which was as per the original demonstration bike. Shortly after I bought another bike and several since but never another Kawasaki.

My Evora had a slight leak on the A post but only in heavy rain, it had wind noise in the same area so I replaced the seals and applied a small amount of sealant against the body which seemed to cure it.

I wish you good luck fixing the issue, the Evora is a fantastic car and the most refined lotus I’ve owned and driven to date.

Dave  

[Bravo73]

3 hours ago, MrBlueSky said:

I notice that there is a slight gap (with door closed window fully up) between window and door seal towards the rear of the passenger door. Is this a likely culprit  and possibly difficult to resolve?

Out of interest, when you close your doors, are the windows closing the final 2mm on their own?

[BigTed]

Just to add, I had a water leak into the passenger footwell and it turned out to be a badly sealed windscreen.

Run your hand down the fabric on the A pillar on the inside of the car. After a good downpour, mine was wet at the bottom near where the where the warm heater air blows out.

Resealed the screen and problem solved.

[jerzybondov]

On 15/01/2022 at 09:39, LOTUSMAN33 said:

I feel your pain being a new vehicle having faults, water leaks are among the worst as it makes the car smell and quite unpleasant to use with condensation. I agree with all that’s said, it will be simple and likely a blocked drain tube, water getting past the seals or penetrations. 
I’ve had leaks on many cars over the years and bought a new Mondeo once, the dealer searched endlessly for the water leak changing seals, removing the headlining to confirm the sunroof tubes were attached, vac smoke testing and the list went on. In the end a forum member said check the rear lights which myself and the dealer dismissed as the boot was dry. On further investigation he was correct with the boot carpet up the water was tracking along the stiffening ribs in the boot pan. Lights removed, resealed and the problem was fixed and never leaked again. At one point I was ready to throw the towel in but my dealer was so good and once fixed replaced the complete carpet in the car and attached underlay.

Unrelated to Lotus or water leaks - My only terrible dealer experience was the purchase of a new Kawasaki ER6-N in 2013 as a work commuter bike, I test rode the demonstration model for a whole day which was great for unfaired small bike so bought a new one they had in the showroom. I collected it 5 days later all happy only to find as I started the engine terrible vibration. I immediately removed my helmet and got the manager and service dept out to listen. Both parties assured me this was normal and would settle once the bike bedded in, well as you can imagine it got worse and I always run bikes in to the book. After two visits and contacting Kawasaki direct on several occasions I was just told it was part of the bike’s characteristic despite arguing. After 3 months of numb feet, hands and ass I tried to P/X it for another bike where they offered me a ridiculous figure. So cross I decided to ride the bike a week later to a dealer some 60 miles away on a dual carriageway where at 70 mph the vibration became unbearable, I pulled the clutch in to release drive and pull over when the engine destroyed itself. On recovery the 3 month old bike was returned to the dealer who then tried to claim I had over revved the bike, it took a further 4 months of arguing to get resolution and a replacement engine installed which was as per the original demonstration bike. Shortly after I bought another bike and several since but never another Kawasaki.

My Evora had a slight leak on the A post but only in heavy rain, it had wind noise in the same area so I replaced the seals and applied a small amount of sealant against the body which seemed to cure it.

I wish you good luck fixing the issue, the Evora is a fantastic car and the most refined lotus I’ve owned and driven to date.

Dave  

God that's appalling with the ER6!! Atrocious on every level!

[MrBlueSky]

On 15/01/2022 at 13:23, Bravo73 said:

Out of interest, when you close your doors, are the windows closing the final 2mm on their own?

Good point, yes they move up the last few mm on their own when closing.

On 16/01/2022 at 10:15, BigTed said:

Just to add, I had a water leak into the passenger footwell and it turned out to be a badly sealed windscreen.

Run your hand down the fabric on the A pillar on the inside of the car. After a good downpour, mine was wet at the bottom near where the where the warm heater air blows out.

Resealed the screen and problem solved.

Pouring with rain right now so will be a good test and I will check as you suggest.

[MrBlueSky]

On 16/01/2022 at 12:12, jerzybondov said:

God that's appalling with the ER6!! Atrocious on every level!

Wow, atrocious service. Can see why you'd stay clear of Kawasaki for the rest of your life.

Like to think these types of horror stories are past us all now that quality controls have improved so much in recent decades but no doubt someone will trump that with a recent experience.

The Evora is indeed very refined. Loving it.

[MrBlueSky]

An update on my problem.

Very nice call from dealer this morning apologising for my inconvenience, accepting that leak is not fully resolved if still wet therefore, offering to get the car picked up and passenger door fixed.

Feeling far more comfortable about long term Evora ownership now.

[exeterjeep]

Sounds promising, lets hope they fix it this time. 

[jerzybondov]

14 minutes ago, MrBlueSky said:

An update on my problem.

Very nice call from dealer this morning apologising for my inconvenience, accepting that leak is not fully resolved if still wet therefore, offering to get the car picked up and passenger door fixed.

Feeling far more comfortable about long term Evora ownership now.

It’s all it takes isn’t it? Good service isn’t that difficult!

[jep]

Personally, with 35 years experience of a multitude of car repairers, I don't think it reasonable to expect every problem with a car to be fixed at the first attempt. 

I employ a Gas Safe engineer full time and we do boiler repairs and plumbing. The engineer has worked for me for 24 years. He doesn't always fix on first visit....some problems take multiple attempts; not many but it happens. And sometimes, we make mistakes. 

With specialist cars such as Lotus, I think it wise to build a relationship with your local repairer, allowing them some leeway. This will enhance your ownership enjoyment in the long run. 

Justin

 

[exeterjeep]

10 minutes ago, jep said:

With specialist cars such as Lotus, I think it wise to build a relationship with your local repairer, allowing them some leeway. This will enhance your ownership enjoyment in the long run. 

Also it enables you to visit and see what other cars are in stock/on display and build a relationship with the guys (+girls) in the dealership. I knew the chaps at London lotus centre well, bought 4 lotus' and a Suzuki from them.  Would hope to do similar with Exeter and as with SWLC. Have had more issues with Jeeps at a couple of places in the past.