Ukraine

[Chillidoggy]

I saw it reported earlier, that 600 people were dead already. 450 Russian soldiers and 150 Ukraine civilians.

[TdM]

It does seem that there have been a lot of casualties. Unfortunately, as usual, numbers are very unreliable in these situations and each side proclaims unrealistic numbers. I think everyone agree that any was far too many.

Look, nobody is going to be able to stop the invasion of Ukraine now, it's just not going to happen, the West will only interfere if Russia step foot into a NATO country. However, I do believe they should push further on sanctions and I think they should definitely rescind all international participation for Russia. Yes the Eurovision song contest and the 2026 world cup etc. it should all be instantly cancelled, Russia out of the UN, Russia out of any sporting body or competition. Remove them from Swift.

They should be isolated as much as possible. Yes, they will have China to some extent, yes it will have an economic impact, but, honestly this pussy footing by the West is exactly why Putin feels he can do what he likes. We all stand 'united' behind not doing much.

[basalte]

You too , C8 . And thanks to Ms Patel we might one day be entitled to your real name as of right . 

[C8RKH]

26 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

I saw it reported earlier, that 600 people were dead already. 450 Russian soldiers and 150 Ukraine civilians.

I'd heard 150 Ukrainian soldiers and 48 civilians. But as someone said the numbers will hardly be reliable for justifiable reasons. I think it is clear the Ukrainians are not just going to roll over so Putin could be in for years of unrest and disruption and terrorist activity. 

18 minutes ago, TdM said:

It does seem that there have been a lot of casualties. Unfortunately, as usual, numbers are very unreliable in these situations and each side proclaims unrealistic numbers. I think everyone agree that any was far too many.

Look, nobody is going to be able to stop the invasion of Ukraine now, it's just not going to happen, the West will only interfere if Russia step foot into a NATO country. However, I do believe they should push further on sanctions and I think they should definitely rescind all international participation for Russia. Yes the Eurovision song contest and the 2026 world cup etc. it should all be instantly cancelled, Russia out of the UN, Russia out of any sporting body or competition. Remove them from Swift.

They should be isolated as much as possible. Yes, they will have China to some extent, yes it will have an economic impact, but, honestly this pussy footing by the West is exactly why Putin feels he can do what he likes. We all stand 'united' behind not doing much.

Spot on. The fence needs to be removed from the arses of our politicians and they need to stop worrying about their own gravy train and do the right thing.

[andydclements]

'm surprised there's not been a lot of comment on the remarks of a local-to-me politician, whose suggestion reminds me of a certain "We have peace in our time" approach  https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/clive-lewis-calls-for-negotiations-with-russia-8716086 . I don't like this guy's policies on most things but that one really has wound me up.

[100th_Idiot]

11 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I see that the Government has now banned Aeroflot from UK airspace.
Come on Boris, think it through: how on earth will the Man Utd team get to their next game at Leicester City?

Utd have dumped Aeroflot.

 

What have Chelsea done?

[100th_Idiot]

5 hours ago, basalte said:

There must be a lot of eye-rolling at this thread by now but it does seem to me that France and Germany are relatively united in their reaction (love or hate it ) and we are not . How is this a male testicular organ ?  Your relentless mission to blame the EU (and once again I emphasise that I am not their biggest fan) , seems to ignore that insurmountable fact.     

 

I'm not sure about that United approach. As i understand things it was Germany and Italy that are objecting to ejecting Russia from the SWIFT banking system. That would have severe and immediate financial impact as they could not be paid for oil and gas. All other sanctions are relatively slow to have impact.

[pete]

[PaulCP]

7 hours ago, Escape said:

THIS

Plenty to discuss without getting personal, just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

or use the power of the “ignore” button. 

It’s a superpower to trump all other superpowers! 👍

[TAR]

34 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

a superpower to trump all other superpowers! 👍

I thought that was Bibs?  

[C8RKH]

No, he just "trumps" a lot apparently.....

[phil flash]

Situation not helped by having a PM with no foresight ...   Brexshit, Covid and this ...

 

[Barrykearley]

You can knock Boris as a bit of a twat all you like. But you can’t blame him, Corbyn or even trump for the actions of a maniac called Putin.

[C8RKH]

Sorry @phil flash but that was a cheap crass shot - yup, Boris missed it, and so did every other freakin' leader in the west. Why oh why do you people keep friggin' harping on about Brexit. Get over it, for gods sake and stop using it as the excuse for everything.

Blaming any PM, even if what was say Corbyn, for not seeing COVID coming or a land invasion in Europe and being prepared. Well fcuk me, you must the smug git with the crystal ball who can foresee everything! Show me any leader and government anywhere in the world that was ready for COVID and a land war in Europe

.

 

[phil flash]

Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP and Chairman of the Common Defence Select Committee didn't miss it. He does 'his homework', unlike Johnson.   

Russian tanks into Georgia in 2008, 2014 seized Crimea, supported rebels Russian Soldiers and weapons in the Donbas.  If Johnson hadn't been partying and taking donations from the Russians he might have been more objective and seen it coming. He even put a Russian in the House of Lords! 

Remember Johnson was on TV at the start of Covid saying "we should all take it on the chin" ... wise words of advice?

[Barrykearley]

And IF Boris had seen this coming - the WHAT exactly do you think he could possibly have done to make a difference?  Tobias certainly hasn’t achieved anything of any substance has he.

[jonwat]

 

UK RAISES ALERT LEVEL

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent Russian threats and have therefore raised their security level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.”

Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.”

The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out.

The Russians have been re-categorised from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.”

The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let’s Get the Bastards.” They don’t have any other levels.

This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.”

The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.”

The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France’s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability. They have also started wearing their reversible coats.

Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.”

Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”

The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.”

Belgians on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia meanwhile, has raised its security level from “No worries” to “She’ll be alright, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we’ll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far, no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

(With thanks to John Cleese)

[C8RKH]

30 minutes ago, phil flash said:

Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP and Chairman of the Common Defence Select Committee didn't miss it. He does 'his homework', unlike Johnson.   

Russian tanks into Georgia in 2008, 2014 seized Crimea, supported rebels Russian Soldiers and weapons in the Donbas.  If Johnson hadn't been partying and taking donations from the Russians he might have been more objective and seen it coming. He even put a Russian in the House of Lords! 

Remember Johnson was on TV at the start of Covid saying "we should all take it on the chin" ... wise words of advice?

Yawn Phil.  What do you think the security forces do? Army Special intelligence. MI5. MI6. Oh sorry, it was all the fault of one man who "missed it", the PM?

Christ, what shite.  Sometimes people cannot see beyond their own noses, hatred and prejudice and just have spout off like this. What are the tough decisions you need to make every day that affect the lives of millions? And, if you think you could do better, rather than just throwing cheap stones get into politics, get elected, and show us how it should be done mate.

It's at times like this we need to rise above petty party politics, even Starmer and Raynor get that. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

No two ways about it. If the West had fast-tracked Ukraine into NATO, this would not have happened. We’ve had 8 years to sort this out, since Russia annexed Crimea. The West dithered and Ukraine lost. 

[Dave Eds]

5 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

 

 

What have Chelsea done?

Well to be fair they haven't beaten Spurs this week, although I've yet to check on how many players they have on loan at Burnley.....

 

COYS 

[Bibs]

Enough of the UK political chat. Just having a read through this thread shows that it can't be done in a civil matter so any other posts of that ilk will be removed. 

Anyway....

How has Putin managed to get away with stealing £200bn from his country? Surely someone must have noticed, that's a lot of money. 

[bogle]

Putin needs to be Put Down now!  And one man shouldn't have $200 billion dollars period.  Some companies are valued at that amount, but one person should not possess this amount.

[drdoom]

Well chaps, I've just nosed into this thread after weeks away from the General Topics and must say it's remarkably apparent we are unduly testy, quarreling over UK politics at such a time. We know that China await their opportune moment to strike at Taiwan and I'd suggest that time would have been right about when NATO had gotten entangled in the Ukraine situation. A renewed Cold War is certainly underway with perils greater than present when the Soviet Union fell. Back then China was just as inherently incompatible with aspirations toward liberal democracy as it is today. Over the 30 years since, China has become massively more formidable while Russia has sustained or enhanced its military potency. Russia should be utterly detached from commerce with the West, ring-fenced as pariah like the North Koreans. If China wants to support Putin through this then the West should be prepared to apply measured sanctions on them as well. Tough lumps all around but what else to do?    

[Barrykearley]

[C8RKH]

The sad fact is @Bibsthat whilst we have a hugely saddening situation in Ukraine with ordinary people losing their freedom and lives, and indeed a fight for the very freedoms we enjoy, including freedom of speech, some people just cannot see beyond their own little bubble and the prejudices that they hold.

Meanwhile, in the Ukraine, the anti-tank weapons deployed there, with foresight from our own government, have been recognised by the soldiers on the ground as key to their ability to stop Russian tanks advancing. It looks like we, and the US are committing to provide a sustaining supply chain of key weapons like this, and basics like ammunition and field medical supplies, to support Ukrainians to defend their nation. We can't put troops on the ground there to fight as that would effectively be a declaration of war on Russia. 

whilst I am horrified by what is going on, I have no desire or wish to see this escalate further into a war whose casualties will be measured in millions. We face a tipping point, one that if we do not hold back our tempers/actions could result in catastrophic losses for everyone. Hence why cheap, ill informed and crass point scoring stone throwing really rankles. This is not the time for it to be honest.

Best of luck to all of Ukraine.