£1000 fine for not stopping

[pete]

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1597404/driving-fine-land-rover-fined-cyclist-country-lane. Seems that you need to stop if cyclists are coming the other way on a narrow lane £1000 plus fine seems harsh especially as the woman seems unable to remove her feet from the toe clips quick enough

 

[exeterjeep]

It looks as if she turned her head, was not then looking where they were going and fell off the side of the road. Should be fined for incompetent cycling.

I recall many many years ago, drove safely past a cyclist, who was cycling slowly while talking to a pedestrian who was walking along the pavement. After I had gone past, looked in the mirror and saw the cyclist turn into the curb and fell off - no where near me..!!!!

 

[andydclements]

I do think he was wrong to pass as he did, and should have pulled over to allow the cyclists to pass. I get how his actions led to the cyclist falling off (the one in front felt they had to come to a sharp stop, so begins the sequence of events), but same as @pete the £1008 does seem a bit steep, but it's a lot less than the £2500 fine that he could have got and he only got 5 of the possible 9 points. 

 

[jep]

Pathetic on every level.

Justin 

[pete]

Interesting that the police used cam evidence from a cyclist but are reluctant to accept them from motorists

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Good god that’s embarrassing. Also why are they referring to an “overtaking” manoeuvre when the LR is heading in the opposite direction?

[Escape]

How can the driver be blamed for the cyclist forgetting their training wheels? The world has gone mad, and somehow it's always the fault of those with a car...

[jerzybondov]

I'd normally be on the side of the cyclist in this sort of thing, but it's only 'averagely' inconsiderate driving - the type I encounter 5 times a trip whenever I cycle anywhere in London. It's more than averagely inept cycling however. 

[ramjet]

I'm on the drivers side.

Cyclist wasn't paying attention. We have a great many entitled cyclists in Geelong as well. Ignore red lights. Jump onto a green walk lane to beat the red light. Travel more than two abreast. The usual.

 

[Geoffers]

Speaking as someone who does a bit of cycling, I do think the LR driver did pass a little too close & too fast. However the reason the woman fell off was because the cyclist at the front stopped so she had too & could not get her foot out of the clip less pedals fast enough. Fine did seem excessive though.

[Dave Eds]

I see this differently....

The one at the back with the helmet cam has clipped the woman's back wheel as he's riding one handed, giving a V sign with the other, and is looking backwards not forwards so has no idea what's going on in front of him and has no control over his own brakes and steering.....

[C8RKH]

9 hours ago, andydclements said:

I do think he was wrong to pass as he did, and should have pulled over to allow the cyclists to pass

And to tell me why the cyclists should not have pulled over to let the car past?  Where does it say, anywhere, in law or advice, that the driver MUST STOP?

As an ex cyclist it is so obvious what has happened here.

Upper middle aged couple out for a cycle, got all the gear but no idea.  The gent in front slows to a stop, the woman behind was not paying attention, slams on her brakes as she thinks she is going to hit him, then falls off as she has her feet "clipped" in. If I had a pound for every time I forgot to unclip when stopping as a fit youngster racing I'd have a bit more skin on my elbows.

This is the most ridiculous fine and action that I think I have ever seen and the woman gesticulating at the driver needs to have a look in the mirror and be honest about the fact that she fell off because she panicked and SHE WAS NOT IN CONTROL.

Total bonkers.

The driver was well over to the left, left plenty of space it was the lead cyclist stopping that caught the middle one unaware. No idea why he pled guilty he should have fought it, but probably couldn't be arsed. And as for the comment from the Police, they are just becoming a joke these days. About as much use or common sense some of them as a fork handle.

[pete]

For some reason he changed his plea on the morning of the trial.

[C8RKH]

Hmmmm. Why? Because if I, and any other sensible person was on a jury looking at that video I honestly would not see the driver as doing anything wrong. His left side wheels were just off the road giving the maximum space he could. The cyclists had room. I get passed by cyclists when i am walking who are much closer than that almost everyday.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Bravo73

[tim_marra]

The LR driver may have been a tad fast, but the guilty plea may have been a financial decision? Poor outcome regardless.

[andydclements]

@C8RKH It now does say in law that cars give way to cycles and sets a minimum passing distance (I acknowledge he was passing in the opposite direction, not overtaking), by means of the highway code setting the priority order and failure to adhere to it being the basis for breaking the law. That aside, even before that change, whenever overtaking or passing a cyclist it's only sensible to leave at least room for if they wobble and fall. All he had to do was pull over as he did and then stop for 20-30 seconds while the cyclists passed..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225

Rule 212

Give motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement), at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 162 to 167)........

 

Rule 213

............Motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders and horse drawn vehicles may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

[eeyoreish]

My wife is a horse rider so I’m more than sympathetic to ‘non car’ traffic on the roads and I have nothing particularly against cyclists but stuff like this does nothing to endear them to the average motorist. Rather like opting not to use purpose built cycle lanes where the carriageway has been narrowed to accommodate them, then gesticulating at drivers as they cycle in the main carriageway and squeeze between cars and the bollards marking the outside of the cycle lane they should be in..!

I can’t see that in this case the driver of the Land Rover did anything wrong.

Edited April 22, 2022 by eeyoreish

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, andydclements said:

. All he had to do was pull over as he did and then stop for 20-30 seconds while the cyclists passed..

And nothing stopping the cyclists stopping and giving way, though heaven forbid they put themselves out.

To drive a car on the road you need to pass a test. Any dickhead can ride a bike on the road, with no training, no test, no experience and increasingly with no blame regardless of whether they wobble through incompetence or fall due to doing something stupid.

As @eeyoreishpoints out, increasingly the hostility has been from righteous entitled cyclists who seem to think they can do what they want with little accountability or comeback.  Motorist who dickish stuff are easy to track and punish. Cyclists, well good luck identifying the dickish ones let alone holding them to account.

I put this incident in the same position as the cyclist who was done for knocking over the woman who stepped in front of him, from pavement to road, without looking and whilst listening through headphones to music whilst her eyes were glued to the phone. WTF was the cyclist supposed to do?  (i am not anti all cyclists btw).

[PAR]

The fine seems a bit low to me. Clearly there was potential for  bodily harm here when you look at speed vs road size.

if it was a car the other way, the guys would never had tried to drive that fast. Don’t think the guy should be allowed to keep his driving license. The lawyer probably explained to him he was getting away lightly.

if I was driving in my lotus and this guy was driving the other way this fast, I would be quite upset.

Edited April 23, 2022 by PAR

[Escape]

I do hope you are in better control of your Lotus than that cyclist! There was plenty of room to cross each other. Obviously another car would have require a wider road to safely cross, but if the same distance could be maintained I would find the LRs speed perfectly acceptable and would not have slowed down more in my Lotus (or other car) coming from the other direction.

The only comparable situation where I would slow down more or even stop being in the LR is if the other traffic were horses (who could be startled from the engine) or small children on bikes who might swerve. If a grown up falls over in those circumstances, he/she has only himself to blame. Idiocy should never be an excuse to blame other road users (but it's made so easy these days...).

In fact, if I hear or read about an accident involving a cyclist, I always assume the cyclist was at fault, unless proven otherwise. That's the logical consequence of seeing so many cyclist run around with little or no respect for traffic laws, just doing as they please and expecting everyone else to compensate.

Filip

[910Esprit]

I do a fair bit cycling on the B roads of rural North York's and my advice is to put self preservation first...   If you stop and wait, I've found that drivers also tends to become far more courteous in slowing down and giving space.  Possibly as it diffuses the competitive jousting that seems to naturally occur between all road users? 

[PAR]

1 hour ago, Escape said:

I do hope you are in better control of your Lotus than that cyclist! There was plenty of room to cross each other. Obviously another car would have require a wider road to safely cross, but if the same distance could be maintained I would find the LRs speed perfectly acceptable and would not have slowed down more in my Lotus (or other car) coming from the other direction.

Dont really get any of that. Your argument is that you should cross a cyclist at the same speed and keeping the same distance as you would a 4 wheel car??? 
 

Also your argument seems to be that is the this was another road and another vehicle then it would have been fine so it is fine here…

 

Too be honest I don’t understand all the anger on the internet of people who wish the world to be more dangerous and wishing ill to other people so they can save 0.2 secs for their travel from their work to their wife complaining their spend too much time with both anyway.

Edited April 23, 2022 by PAR

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, PAR said:

Too be honest I don’t understand all the anger on the internet of people who wish the world to be more dangerous and wishing ill to other people so they can save 0.2 secs for their travel from their work to their wife complaining their spend too much time with both anyway.

I agree. What I don't understand though is the amount of anger, hatred, bile etc thrown at motorists just getting on with things and how especially with some, not all by any means cyclists, they feel that they are entitled to special treatment when oft they show little consideration to others when on the road, pavement or shared tracks!  Why does a cyclist have to jump a red light to save themselves 0.2 seconds?  Or bomb through a zebra crossing when people are trying to cross as they shout obscenities for people to dare to get in their way?  Or ride at 20mph+ on a shared path just skimming past a walker with no hint of warning and scaring the shit out of them?  I don't understand why and how CYCLISTS seem to be the most entitled tw@ts on the planet.

For some balance, I trained and raced on cycles from 12 to 28 years of age. After that I was a leisure cyclist and rode LEJOG and became a coach for cycling skills and race development with a local club whilst supporting my daughter to win numerous national awards as a youth/junior track cyclist.  So I am certainly not anti-cyclist but I am increasingly less tolerant of cyclists due to their constant entitled whining and bitching about motorists when in a high degree of "incidents" it is often the cyclist who is just as antagonistic or in the wrong as a motorist. At this point we then usually get hit with the "yes, but the cyclist is more vulnerable" quote to which i respond yes, I agree, so ride defensively and with forward planning to limit your risk. It's how i was taught and in 30 years of cycling I can count the road rage incidents on both hands.

Once we get a system to allow us to track and trace cyclists when they do something stupid or break the law, like we have for motorists, we might actually start to see cyclists being better held to account and then their entitled behaviours may change and I suspect a less confrontational approach from them, a more considered behaviour, will help to tone down the rage that has been fuelled by stupid websites like Road.CC and their "near miss of the day" - just looking at many of them videos you can spot how the cyclist could have avoided the issue.

I will say that a lot of the "rage" has been generated over the last 15 years or so when cycling suddenly became "trendy" amongst the professional middle classes and we had an explosion of guys (yes, it is mostly guys) clad in lycra who had all the gear but no idea how to ride in groups responsibly or share the road with courtesy. Interestingly, the same demographic that swan around thinking they own the road in the Audi's, BMW's etc!!!   Go figure.

[Barrykearley]

So a knob in a bike fell off. Maybe if the clowns in front and behind hadn’t been so ridiculous the fool in the middle wouldn’t have fallen.

 

this is a complete and utter farce

[eeyoreish]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Once we get a system to allow us to track and trace cyclists when they do something stupid or break the law, like we have for motorists, we might actually start to see cyclists being better held to account and then their entitled behaviours may change

Exactly this.

Any road users who think they aren't identifiable or traceable will feel they can do what they like, flout the law and shout abuse at other road users who are. That includes the 'yoof' I saw a couple of weeks ago on an electric scooter, riding in the middle of the carriageway on a busy A road whilst on his mobile phone. I kid you not...🙄