E10 petrol

[Pete-NR18]

Hello.

I was wondering if anyone knows whether it is ok to run a 2.2 engine on E10 fuel? More specifically a '91 Esprit Turbo, but suspecting likely to the same.

Mine runs ok, but it is a bit lumpy at low revs, and I'm not sure if that's due to fuel, or old age!

Thanks in advance

[jep]

Almost certainly not.

And best use 97, 98, 99 octane in any event, which are all E5.

Justin

 

[Rambo]

Use Shell V Power E5 or Tesco Momentum E5, 99 RON  and you won't go far wrong.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Rambo

[exeterjeep]

We do not use E10 in any of the proper (MG/Lotus) cars or even the ride on mower, ordinary push mower, chain saw or flail mowers. The only thing we use E10 in is the wife's RR, and I sometimes wonder about using E5 in that for the extra energy/MPG. Even garden equipment manufacturers  say you should not leave E10 in for more than 30 days.

 

[drdoom]

37 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

We do not use E10 in any of the proper (MG/Lotus) cars or even the ride on mower, ordinary push mower, chain saw or flail mowers. The only thing we use E10 in is the wife's RR, and I sometimes wonder about using E5 in that for the extra energy/MPG. Even garden equipment manufacturers  say you should not leave E10 in for more than 30 days.

 

Among those who know over here that wisdom regarding E10 in garden equipment ( or outboard boat motors, for that matter ) is spot-on. Best to avoid "E" fuel altogether there if possible. On the road, however, I'm afraid the ubiquity of E fuels seems inevitable so I am building the Esprit with latest spec fuel hoses throughout and fancy having the tanks remade in stainless rather than aluminum. Any who operate Lotus of the era are more than wise to upgrade all fuel system elements that would be inclined to perish in exposure to all modern fuels regardless of ethanol content.

Cheers 

[CarBuff]

FWIW, in the NYC metro area of the USA, we have been forced to use E10 for 25+ years.  That is all that is available.

 

Long as you use the car on a regular basis you won't have any issue.  But, upgrading hoses etc. when doing repairs is Good Practice.

5 hours ago, Pete-NR18 said:

it is a bit lumpy at low revs

Quite normal for the Esprit engine.  Lots of valve overlap (which is why Lotus fitted an auxiliary vacuum pump). LET IT REV!😇

[Rambo]

10 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

We do not use E10 in any of the proper (MG/Lotus) cars or even the ride on mower, ordinary push mower, chain saw or flail mowers. The only thing we use E10 in is the wife's RR, and I sometimes wonder about using E5 in that for the extra energy/MPG. Even garden equipment manufacturers  say you should not leave E10 in for more than 30 days.

 

Totally agree Keith. I forgot to mention thst I also use E5 in all my garden equipment, including those that use 2 stroke ie chainsaw, strimmer, hedgecutter, leaf blower etc. 

E10 is another government con. You need more of it to go the same distance. Simple science. They'll be conning us into thinking that electric cars are good for the environment next 🤔

[exeterjeep]

Had a problem with one of the quads, the company I got it from thought it might be the petrol getting stale (told him I never used E10!!!!), tried Lucas Safe Guard Ethanol Petrol Additive Conditioner Stabiliser E10 Fuel - had good reviews on eBay/amazon.  Did not make any difference as it was actually a problem with the carb  

The reviews of the additive seem to good to be true??? Certainly would not want to use it though in one of the Lotus'.

[Pete-NR18]

Found this on the Esso website: 

“What’s in our Synergy Supreme+ 99 premium petrol

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.”

 

I think I need to flush through my tank of E10!

(Thanks for all the responses to my post - Its really good to know there is so much support and experience out there 🙂 )

[Rambo]

It's unfortunate that the Esso Synergy E0 isn't available in Scotland otherwise it would be my fuel of choice and in my tank every time.

[JR]

I am NO expert but those-who-do-know-what-they-are-talking-about VERY firmly told me to ONLY use E5 in my 88 Esprit.

[Roy Lewington]

I heard the same.  Esso 99 octane, although it has an E5 sticker on the pump doesn't contain any ethanol.

[NG5]

Vulcan Grey previously uploaded a table from Lotus on fuel compatibility. Sadly the link to the Lotus website quoted is now dead, but here is the original post.

Essentially if its a v8 or injected 4 cyl E10 is fine, if it's on carbs it's not.

Sa

[NG5]

Rambo,

Quite a lot of Scotland is actually ethanol free as much of scotland is exempt from using ethanol under the rural fuel duty relief (it will still be labeled E5 or E10 though)

This the list of location where the Rural Fuel Duty Relief Scheme operates

Inner and Outer Hebrides
Northern Isles
Islands in the Clyde
Isles of Scilly
post town of Hawes (Northern Yorkshire)
post code districts in:
England — EX35, LA17, NE48
Scotland — IV14, IV21, IV22, IV26, IV27, IV54, KW12, PA38, PA80, PH19, PH23, PH36, PH41

There is a very long detailed thread on this on the Flyer aviation forum because quite a few aircraft operate on normal pump fuel and failure in the air is a bit more serious.

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=121418&p=1914424&hilit=e10#p1914424

 

[Rambo]

Unfortunately that only covers Invernesshire, Kilmarnock, Paisley and Perthshire. There are huge swathes of rural Scotland not covered ie Dumfries and Galloway, Scottish Borders, Edinburgh, east, west and central Lothians, Fife etc....

[Escape]

On 26/09/2022 at 12:35, Pete-NR18 said:

Found this on the Esso website: 

“What’s in our Synergy Supreme+ 99 premium petrol

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

I don't doubt the Esso Supreme is good fuel, I also use it, but a reduction of friction seems a bit far fetched! Unless they mean it keeps the injectors cleaner. Sounds more like a copy-paste from one of their oil leaflets.

As to the original question, I only use 98 or similar in my classics, both for the octane number (on anything with carbs and/or dizzy) and for less ethanol to save hoses etc. The Land Rovers get 95, as do the garden tools but they are run dry before winter storage. Premixed Aspen for the 2-strokes, I don't use enough to warrant mixing my own.

[Roy Lewington]

There are plenty of additives on the market (e.g. Ethanolmate)  whose claims are quite impressive. 250ml treats 250 litres.  

No idea if they work.

[cammmy]

On 26/09/2022 at 08:06, Rambo said:

E10 is another government con. You need more of it to go the same distance. Simple science. They'll be conning us into thinking that electric cars are good for the environment next 🤔

I might be stating the obvious here but ethanol was introduced for emissions reasons, not to save us money. It's produced by growing things so the carbon released by burning it comes from the atmosphere, not underground. It has it's upside though, ethanol is less energy dense but it has higher octane and a lower stoich ratio than petrol. That means you can run more compression/boost without detonation as well as burning much more of it per combustion cycle. As you say, worse economy but you can get significant power gains out of it. Personally, I wish they would sell E85. I would happily change out my lines and add a flex fuel sensor to be able to run that.

Edited October 13, 2022 by cammmy

[Rambo]

You're right, it was. But with so many of our modern ICE's running with catalysers and extremely low emissions anyway, it will make a miniscule difference to global warming.

Personally, I would run all my cars and garden machinery and gadgets without any ethanol if I could get it.

[cammmy]

Yeah, that's fair enough. It's always good to have a choice.

[Rambo]

👍

My sister in Vancouver Island owns an Indy 500 car (Old Bess that ran against Jim Clark when he won Indy 500 in '65) that runs on methanol. She needs to change the fuel lines to get it running on petrol, or gasoline, or whatever they call it over there??? It is coming over to Goodwood Classics sometime, courtesy of Lord March

[Escape]

19 hours ago, cammmy said:

I might be stating the obvious here but ethanol was introduced for emissions reasons, not to save us money. It's produced by growing things so the carbon released by burning it comes from the atmosphere, not underground. It has it's upside though, ethanol is less energy dense but it has higher octane and a lower stoich ratio than petrol. That means you can run more compression/boost without detonation as well as burning much more of it per combustion cycle. As you say, worse economy but you can get significant power gains out of it. Personally, I wish they would sell E85. I would happily change out my lines and add a flex fuel sensor to be able to run that.

I have serious doubts about the positive effects on the environment. In many cases, forests are destroyed to make room for agriculture. And if more ethanol is used, those crops add to those needed to feed our overpopulated rock. So less forests...
But I'm sure there are plenty who benefit from it, be it financially or because they can be seen as 'doing something green'.

In France and Sweden for example E85 is easily available. A friend of mine runs his C63 AMG on a 50/50 mix of E85 and E5 or E10. No ill effects and it works out a lot cheaper (I think because the E85 has lower taxes). That is, if he can get any fuel at all in France these days...