The Donald.

[C8RKH]

6 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

Not exactly what he said, but it makes a good headline.

My understanding is that he was at a NATO summit, and a members senior Politician asked him a hypothetical question along the lines of "if we were being on our obligation to fund NATO what would you do if Russia attacked us?"

His response was if you were delinquent, if you hadn't paid your work, I'd do nothing and encourage them them to attack you"

I see nothing wrong with that at all, apart from the last bit.

Why should countries that have joined NATO, and committed to a level of funding, get supported if they don't pay up?  It's a two way obligation and expecting everyone else to pay for you if not the way to go.

Otherwise, you'd be giving me free TLF Gold Membership and taking the cost from every other member. What's the difference?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Hey if times are tough up there, you can revert to FFM. No invasions necessary.

[C8RKH]

Not at all tough up here.

But I do agree with Trump in that if NATO members don't cough up, then how can they expect everyone else to cough up and protect them?

NATO works when everyone in the alliance contributes as per their obligations.

It's like here in Scotland. The SNP wants to be a full member of NATO but refuses to have the nuclear deterrent that is a cornerstone of the alliance on their land! Bonkers. But actually, incredibly selfish. Hence I can get where Trump is coming from. He's still mad as a hatter though.

 

[drdoom]

This is one more example of things that make Trump terminally unsuited for public service. Yes, NATO's members must carry their share of the burden but it is bloody poor form to cultivate support from the most mentally ill-equipped voter by way of rash pronouncements. One may count on Trump to operate on self-serving terms in all things.

[C8RKH]

I do not disagree with you @drdoom but sometimes, one has to be a little deranged to speak the truth in today's world.

Question: Why should the rest of NATO leap to the defence, and see their young people slaughtered, of a country that could not ne arsed to keep its end of the bargain.

Harsh?  Yes, of course it is. But I actually think it needs to be said and these countries need to be held to account.

[drdoom]

For the most part I agree, @C8RKH. There is a persisting narrative here in Canada to the effect that our military has been woefully neglected. Nations such as mine and those of Western Europe likely have coasted on this due to various more pressing concerns through the recent era of peace. Clearly antagonist nations are becoming some of the more pressing issues of the present, and we'd all do well to carry our share alongside America.

[C8RKH]

Agreed @drdoom.

Only 1/3 of the NATO members are keeping their commitment to deliver 2% of total spending on their Armed Forces: The US, UK, Poland, Greece, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, Romania, Hungary, Latvia and Slovakia.

Some very notable names missing there including one, it could be argued, we have already had to rescue twice!

To be honest, looking at the list who are fulfilling, it should bring real shame down on those who are not, many of whom are much "richer" nations too.

Maybe instead of this mock recoil against Trump, the press and politicians should be rampling up some real outrage at those countries who are, frankly, taking the piss.

 

[USAndretti42]

Interesting that Luxembourg's NATO contribution is only 0.72% of GDP but its per capita spending is over 50% greater than that of the US.

Linky

[C8RKH]

That may be the case @USAndretti42 but the funding obligations that members sign up to are based on Gross National Income, not per capita spending.

So in Luxembourg's case I would deduce that they could pay more, but just don't want to pay more. 

[ChrisJ]

Isn't Amazon based in Luxembourg for tax purposes?

[C8RKH]

Luxembourg and Ireland if I recall correctly. Both for tax purposes.

[Chillidoggy]

On 11/02/2024 at 21:07, C8RKH said:

Agreed @drdoom.

Only 1/3 of the NATO members are keeping their commitment to deliver 2% of total spending on their Armed Forces: The US, UK, Poland, Greece, Estonia, Lithuania, Finland, Romania, Hungary, Latvia and Slovakia.

 

Indeed.
 

And look where they are, geographically. Pretty much on Putin’s doorstep, and next in the firing line. I’d say they have more of an incentive to pony-up!

In any case, if 2% of GDP is a requirement for membership, then any country out of line should have a period of grace to sort themselves out, or face the risk of being booted out of NATO. 

[C8RKH]

100% agree. Pay up or feck off. Simples.

[red vtec]

20 out of 31 members are not paying the 2% minimum. That means the other 11, including us are paying for it.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I think we’re only just conforming. I think I read 2.07% somewhere, so not really subsidising the others. Some people mock our large projects like the aircraft carriers, but at least they’re a tangible asset that the public can see. Much of our tax money goes down a black hole.

[EldonZ]

7 hours ago, red vtec said:

20 out of 31 members are not paying the 2% minimum. That means the other 11, including us are paying for it.

The members are suppose to spend the amount on their own defense program. Therefore, it is not like their not contributing to an over pot. It just means they are not making an equal amount of contribution. It's not fair because the rest of members are beefing up their defense.

Later,
Eldon

[Bibs]

So while his rhetoric to encourage Russia to engage with the ones not keeping up perhaps wasn't the right tone, he does have a valid and relevant point. 

[pete]

BBC News - Donald Trump ordered to pay more than $350m in New York fraud case - BBC News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68132436

[Rambo]

See here for Trump's mounting debt..... https://trumpdebtcounter.com

Edited March 3 by Rambo

[exeterjeep]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68440150

Donald Trump supporters have been creating and sharing AI-generated fake images of black voters to encourage African Americans to vote Republican.

BBC Panorama discovered dozens of deepfakes portraying black people as supporting the former president.

[ramjet]

Isn't that false advertising?

Anyway, we can make mistakes over here with our democratic process as well. We get politicians whose waist size is greater than their IQ.

But surely, the USA public won't get fooled into voting Trump in?

Does he still get manufacturing of gear that he sells made overseas in the 'cheaper' labour markets?

One of his supporters was asked that when Trump kept banging on about bringing jobs back into the USA.

Supporters answer? "Well, that's just smart business." So it's do as I say, not do as I do.

The guy 'allegedly' incited a riot for cryin' out loud.

[pete]

Trump has taken lessons from Kim Jung UN

https://www.facebook.com/share/e9Ar6BD4cr2UH8Ga/

[drdoom]

Trump is living, breathing evidence that humans can talk themselves into believing whatever they choose to, despite facts to the contrary. It is the essence of religion, and America goes all-in on that.

[drdoom]

What a dismal lack of imagination is shown when buying into Trump's pitches for MAGA and these isolationist fantasies. This most certainly is 2024, not 1964, and China and other competitors will not be simply wished away nor cowed unduly by threat of force. While Island America ( taking my country along for the ride inevitably ) languishes in denial, China and her confederates will be all too happy to prosper while engaging worldwide. Neither Britain, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the South American states nor Europe will be positioned to counter these expansionist moves by the authoritarians without a stalwart America.

[ramjet]

How can an election denier and someone who is in constant contact with the Orange One (we shall not speak his name. apologies to J.K.Rowling) be the Speaker of The House?

This is a genuine question as from what I have seen online, many have said that Mike Johnson will not bring the latest Ukraine and border bill to the floor for vote because ala Orange has said that he wants to sort out the border when he gets back into office?

And if he doesn't? That'll just leave the Ukraine swinging in the breeze for many months unless I don't understand American politics?

https://www.politicususa.com/2024/03/07/mike-johnson-trump-puppet.html