Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Sparky]

Because nobody in their right mind would use them.  And stop calling me Shirley.

[Chillidoggy]

3 hours ago, Sparky said:

Because nobody in their right mind would use them.  And stop calling me Shirley.

Any chance you could tell that to the bloke that did my gearbox?

Not the Shirley bit, obv.

[Lotusfab]

The one good thing is all the sealants worked perfectly. I used wellseal, loctite and only silicon on the cam cover. No sealant residue in the sump.

The worst thing is I now  have to throw away the brand new oil cooler and all the new pipes! 

[Lotusfab]

23 hours ago, CHANGES said:

That boat has sailed Fabian...  You did a Stirling job cleaning all the media out.. So many other people use the Aqua blasting and other media blasting as a restoration tool without issue , including me ..   I don't think you should focus on that as a cause anymore ....  Yes there are scare stories on the social media sites from people who say it is wrong to use that process, but what you have to ask yourself is..   Who are they  . Is there any proof that what they say is true.   Or are they just making it up to look important and all knowing... Or did they use the process and not bother cleaning out after as you did and everyone else who uses the process does..   There is positive  proof that the process can be used without issue ...  Here on this forum , others and Me ..  Who do you believe the most ?    Best to concentrate on what you know and forget the Aqua blasting scare stories, this is a false trail.    

Dave please could you give me your opinion on the Burn in the head. Its tuned to optimum combustion at idle. Pump jets were way off, Looks rich my concern is Oily deposits. . No evidence of anything getting past the rings. Could it be from oil seepage on the exhaust valve guides ? They all measured in spec. I am considering a total replacement of all valves and guides. I would have hope it would burn better. Thanks.

[910Esprit]

Pending opinion from Dave....

Do the HC/CO figures confirm that combusion was 'good' at idle?  (any uncalibrated tweaking of the mixture screws has a fairly significant impact on these)

Did you use new rings in old liners?   (they can take a some time to bed in)

Wont be exhaust guides, as they are  'post' combustion and operate in a pressurised environment. 

Was there any oil consumption?

If all valves/guides within spec, presumably the issue (if it is an issue) lies elsewhere.   If the engine had not failed, you would never have seen inside the combustion chamber and you have not done many miles.  It's entirely possible its all just still bedding in.  On the plus side, all chambers seem pretty consistent.  

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by 910Esprit

[Lotusfab]

The rings are all new. Liners and pistons pretty good. All valves in spec. No oil consumption that I noted. You might be correct more time to bed in. Just odd I didnt expect  to see this. Its quite interesting to take apart an engine you have just built you can evaluate all if it. 

[Lotusfab]

 

My main concern, before I built this engine, was sealing and gasketing. The irony is the sealing on everything couldnt have been any better. I experienced none of the usual lotus leaks!  I really didn't see this engine failure coming! I have had a long think about handing this engine over to a professional,  but I keep coming back to the same points.  I want to build all of this car and I just can't  accept being beaten by an engine- I don't do failure. So I guess I am going to double down on this engine and rebuild it again by myself! I have learned a great deal already and shall put it to good use.

I have researched many websites now. Every single picture of damage seems to  correlate  to iron particle scoring. Before I go any further I must say I have a great respect for Daves Changes and others expert  knowledge when it comes to these engines. I appreciate all of the input on this thread. Please understand how some advice can hit home when a failure such as this has occured after so many man hours and so much effort. There will be piss takers but remember what Joan Collins once said, "the only people I know that haven't failed are those that haven't tried"! So I recall my old RAF motto, Per Ardua Ad Astra. 

Thinking, analysing, reading and listening I have come to a conclusion. I accept Dave is most likely correct and the glass blead is not a factor. This will be confirmed by microscopic analysis later in the week. 

I own this failure totally. I made two catestrophic omissions when I rebuilt this engine. Dont make my mistakes if your rebuilding one of these! Here they are. I failed to test and check the PRV in the oil pump housing. I failed to detect cracks in the cam followers. If Im honest both caused by lack of knowledge of this engine. So I have tested the new oil pump housing PRV and shall replace all of the cam followers with steel ones.

Conclusions

The initial lack of oil pressure, due to the PRV stuck open, may have caused slight wear to the follower skirts, but would  not have caused this failure in itself. Indeed the car ran for two months with no issues. This was caused by fatigue damaged to the cam followers and a failure by me to detect defects in them in an effective manner. The follower must have been running in a cracked state for a while. All I noticed way a slight misfired at idle when hot. The tuning did seem to drift off slightly on my last few drives. The wear of the cam housing and follower must have resulted in iron particles some how getting into the oil system. The quantity and size of particles must have come from the missing cam follower skirt. Dave I appreciate your view on this, but I simply dont  buy that the particles came from the bearing surfaces. There isnt enough wear on them to justify the amount of material in the sump. All the pictures I have seen that  are identicle to the damage on my bearings indicate iron particle damage. This caused scoring of the bearing surfaces with a resultant dropping of oil pressure and an increase in operating temperature lowering the oil Viscocity on my last drive. Eventually the top of the cam follower broke to pieces resulting in the engine stopping at idle. 

Solution

The time for analysis is now ended - lets rebuild this sucker! 

The engine has suffered serious damage. The most important thing is to remove all debirs. I have to throw away all of the new oil hoses, oil cooler and replace. The  rest of the engine will be subjected to a stringent cleaning regime of degreaser, jet washing, brake cleaner, pipe cleaner, brushes, sonic cleaning and compressed air. All old gaskets completely removed. Then the shoping list 😬😬😬😬😬

Two replacement 107 camshafts.

One replacement inlet camshaft housing and a second opinion from an experienced builder on the second. If no good it will be replaced.

New steel cam followers. 

Cylinder head. Reconditioning by experienced company with a minimum of new valves.

Check and reuse of liners and pistons which still appear in good condition.

Big end bearings although they appear serviceable will be replaced as a matter of course.

crankshaft grinding and new bearings with balance against flywheel. I noticed after the rebuild the engine balance was off. 

New rotor, annulus, auxillery housing and oil pump housing.

I will remeasure all of the components and list everything that needs replacing. As before I will list all components I think need replacing and get them double checked by a professional prior to assembly.

After all that if I can still afford to keep my garage I will put it all back together and then get on with the ski racks! 

😄😄😄😄😄😄👍👍👍

 

 

 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Sounds like a great plan Fabian and after you will have an epic engine which should last you out. You are very resilient and remained positive throughout.

The dent in the wallet will seem insignificant when your turbo is hitting three figures on roads permitting.

Dave  

[Lotusfab]

1 minute ago, LOTUSMAN33 said:

Sounds like a great plan Fabian and after you will have an epic engine which should last you out. You are very resilient and remained positive throughout.

The dent in the wallet will seem insignificant when your turbo is hitting three figures on roads permitting.

Dave  

I like your avatar picture! Just waiting for new pump jet springs to arrive then I will get the carbs done and get the test rig back to you. Thanks! 

[LOTUSMAN33]

Absolutely no rush Fabian, anyone else who wants to borrow it to set their carbs just let me know.

The Evora is lovely but think another Esprit will be joining it in the near future.

Dave  

[Lotusfab]

Can we please have a collection for me so I can buy this!

I need the full set!

[Andyww]

They seem to put these cars on sale quite often, with no price. I dont think they are really selling them, its just a publicity stunt, although I suppose if you offered them $500k they would not refuse!

[Fridge]

I think they are trying to sell them @Andyww as the adverts appear in all the right places. Not reallysure why, but I suppose all museums change their exhibits. With more popular newer film cars to bring in the crowds these may be deemed past their sell by date for them.

Prime opportunity for the Lotus Cars museum to purchase them en masse if you ask me.

The 'Wet Nellie' exhibit is badly detailed. Lots of wrong things on it. Its restoration was documented on TV. I think they needed a better researcher.

[Andyww]

11 minutes ago, Fridge said:

I think they are trying to sell them @Andyww as the adverts appear in all the right places.

No different to last time. At that time someone on the forum phoned them to ask the price, cant remember who, but might have been @Lotusfab and was told they were not for sale.  But if indeed genuine this time then then Lotus should definitely buy them given their new-found interest in showin their heritage but having sold off all the potential cars to display.

[Lex Templar]

4 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Can we please have a collection for me so I can buy this!

I need the full set!

This is serial #0929 - not included in the official production figures. It has a 2.2L normally aspirated engine !

[RichardJGC]

It it likely to be this one, sold by Norfolk Motor Company?

 

[Lotusfab]

5 minutes ago, RichardJGC said:

It it likely to be this one, sold by Norfolk Motor Company?

 

Mmmm, thats annoying I wanted that!

[Lex Templar]

5 minutes ago, RichardJGC said:

It it likely to be this one, sold by Norfolk Motor Company?

 

it would appear so! How on earth did you lay your hands on that so quickly!

Of course we now now that this car did not appear in the film - but that would be a can of worms - that has been discussed at length

 

[Lotusfab]

2 hours ago, Buddsy said:

Did this get answered? Where you using non synthetic to run in?

buddsy

Hi  Buddsy,

I was using Comma 20/50 classic car oil ( mineral based) for the run in of 500 miles.

[Andyww]

Yes that was the car in the ad I believe. The Keswick museum owned it and then it was eventually sold to Dezer. The one with nose badge and decal in the wrong place. Here it is leaving Keswick. Also wrong side decal. Promo car not in movie.

Not sure if the Norfolk Motor Co ad was before or after Keswick, they could have been selling the car for the Keswick museum when it closed.

[ChrisJ]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Hi  Buddsy,

I was using Comma 20/50 classic car oil ( mineral based) for the run in of 500 miles.

Fabian - Gerald recommended that I run in both the engines he has rebuilt for my cars (one 910 one 912) for 10k miles on semi-synthetic (Castrol Magnatec) to avoid ending up with a "slow" engine.

[Lotusfab]

Ahh thanks, what have other people used? 

[snowrx]

On my engine I fitted a neodymium magnet in the sump plug, and slapped one on the side of the oil filter to catch ferrous particles. On vehicles with a steel oil pan it's easy to slap a magnet on the bottom or side. At least you can see the fuzz with oil changes and get a sense of abnormal wear.

I don't know the temperatures seen in oil would affect a magnet attached under the baffle in the Lotus sump? 

[stephenwhyte]

If you’re struggling with motivation @Lotusfab after the challenges you’ve had with the engine - take half an hour out to watch this. It’s fantastic and will help to make you realise (if needed) just how lucky you are to own the 2 Esprit’s you have. Enjoy👍

 

[Lotusfab]

38 minutes ago, stephenwhyte said:

If you’re struggling with motivation @Lotusfab after the challenges you’ve had with the engine - take half an hour out to watch this. It’s fantastic and will help to make you realise (if needed) just how lucky you are to own the 2 Esprit’s you have. Enjoy👍

 

Excellent!