Start/Stop

[Chillidoggy]

I remember owning cars years ago where the engine stopped at random times, usually the sign that I’d be by the side of road with the bonnet up for hours trying to fix the effing thing. The 850 Mini van I had was particularly adept at it.

So this new-fanged stop/start system scares me, and I always turn it off, unless I forget, whereupon I swear at the car first, and then turn it off.

[USAndretti42]

11 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

The system on the wife's BMW 2 series (auto) is dangerous, the issue happens when the battery has received enough charge to cut the engine at exactly the same time as you are about to pull away,  the delay is probably less than a second, but if you're pulling out onto a busy road into a gap in traffic, it takes less than a second for that gap to disappear. 

 

My wife's got an automatic 2 series.  I always release the brake in slight anticipation of pulling away and that is enough to restart the engine.  Not experienced the issue you have, though, Steve.

[Spinney]

Seriously guys if you’re car has a delayed start as some have described, you need to get it looked at. They sound positively dangerous to me and certainly not a characteristic either of my cars have, or I’m sure I would be complaining about it too. 

[Steve V8]

37 minutes ago, Spinney said:

Seriously guys if you’re car has a delayed start as some have described, you need to get it looked at. 

This is a universal problem with stop/start, unless you drive like a granny, it takes milliseconds to release the brake and hit the throttle, but split seconds for a stopped engine to gain enough momentum and torque to move a car off...when you are aware stop/start is operative your brain will make allowance for the delay...however when sat at a junction, engine running, conditions and gap seen and assessed, then just in that split second that your brain had told your foot to floor it, the battery has charged enough to enable Stop/start to cut the engine, that split second delay is enough for a squeaky seat moment or worse, followed by much colourful shouting and attempts to push that bloody button through the dashboard.

 

[Spinney]

9 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

This is a universal problem with stop/start, unless you drive like a granny, it takes milliseconds to release the brake and hit the throttle, but split seconds for a stopped engine to gain enough momentum and torque to move a car off...when you are aware stop/start is operative your brain will make allowance for the delay...however when sat at a junction, engine running, conditions and gap seen and assessed, then just in that split second that your brain had told your foot to floor it, the battery has charged enough to enable Stop/start to cut the engine, that split second delay is enough for a squeaky seat moment or worse, followed by much colourful shouting and attempts to push that bloody button through the dashboard.

 

Well clearly not all stop/starts are created equal as mine certainly doesn't behave in that way. If I'm stopped at a junction and the system hasn't turned green (dash indication it is active) by the time I stop, then it won't do so until I'm moving again. If I'm at a junction where it is already active but I might need to move a bit sharpish, then despite the engine firing up again in milliseconds, I will usually keep my left foot on the brake and right foot slightly on the gas pedal whereupon the engine will restart in readiness.

[Steve V8]

It's probably me then, (angry old technophobe). I prefer an old banger with state of the art tech, like intermittent wipers and remotely adjusted mirrors. 

[PAR]

18 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

This is a universal problem with stop/start, unless you drive like a granny, it takes milliseconds to release the brake and hit the throttle, but split seconds for a stopped engine to gain enough momentum and torque to move a car off..

You can release the brake pedal and putting the brake on and it will keep the engine on. Mine works very well, I hardly notice it. Usually only kick in at the lights and when it goes orange I release the brake which leaves plenty of time to accelerate when it isn’t green.

i really have never seen the issue you describe so I agree with others that it is worth getting it checked out.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

19 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

This is a universal problem with stop/start, unless you drive like a granny, it takes milliseconds to release the brake and hit the throttle, but split seconds for a stopped engine to gain enough momentum and torque to move a car off...when you are aware stop/start is operative your brain will make allowance for the delay...however when sat at a junction, engine running, conditions and gap seen and assessed, then just in that split second that your brain had told your foot to floor it, the battery has charged enough to enable Stop/start to cut the engine, that split second delay is enough for a squeaky seat moment or worse, followed by much colourful shouting and attempts to push that bloody button through the dashboard.

 

My previous DSG auto Passat did this. I had several roundabout situations like you describe above. 

[Colin P]

On 16/03/2019 at 09:29, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

It's an October 2017 (new shape) manual factory order Passat TDi that I have owned since new. It cuts out when going at very slow speed from second to neutral as I approach a junction/roundabout/traffic light, unless I keep the clutch pedal down. Sure you can keep the clutch pedal down and already stick it in first in readiness of setting off again, but that's not how I drive. I will only depress the clutch pedal and select first from neutral when I know I am about to move off.

I would be interested if any of you can replicate this. It's probably only a manual gearbox thing.

Try the following (where safe!) with stop/start feature functioning:

1) set off and drive at normal pace

2) start braking and go back down the gears in anticipation of stopping

3) when you are in second gear and have nearly stopped, depress the clutch and put the gearstick into neutral and then release the clutch pedal, whilst completing the braking procedure. At this moment my car's engine will switch off even before it has come to a halt. The brakes will still work and the car will stop, but the PAS stops and the steering wheel goes heavy until I press the clutch pedal again to engage first gear to set off again.

I had a few attempts at this this morning and did manage to replicate it once, the engine stopped at maybe 2mph. (2019 Seat, so possibly the same/similar system). I had to really force it and the sequence of events seemed really alien to me. Whilst I may do what you do the big difference is I'd normally have the clutch depressed until I came to a stop.

[ramjet]

I can't comment as I have never had a car with start/stop that is a manual. Maybe autos are setup slightly differently?

21 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

It's probably me then, (angry old technophobe). I prefer an old banger with state of the art tech, like intermittent wipers and remotely adjusted mirrors. 

I've got the wipers, but I keep going back as my side mirrors are totally manual.

 

[Spinney]

37 minutes ago, ramjet said:

I can't comment as I have never had a car with start/stop that is a manual. Maybe autos are setup slightly differently?

I've got the wipers, but I keep going back as my side mirrors are totally manual.

 

Me too, although my cars do have remotely adjusted mirrors, so it seems auto gearbox is the way forward if you buy a car with stop/start fitted.

You heard it here first! 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

As mentioned above, with an auto you can still get that moment when the engine stops, just prior to entering a roundabout.

I am glad Colin P managed to eventually replicate his manual VAG engine stopping just before coming to a halt. As I stated above and he discovered, it's only at walking pace so not really a safety issue (brakes still work), but it does show that the VAG system is still not 100% sorted. Surely it should not be possible for the ECU to shut down the engine of its own free-will when the wheels are rotating? Maybe it should be connected to the auto hold function, since that only operates when the car has fully stopped.

As for the driving procedure itself, I grew up on the (misguided?) understanding that the less time the clutch pedal was depressed, the better for the life of the clutch. I also believed there was a slight chance of your foot slipping off the pedal if waiting with the car in-gear with the clutch depressed, with the obvious safety implications that could lead to. I don't know the exact speed, but I imagine  I am pressing the clutch pedal and coming out of second and into neutral at about 5mph to prevent the engine labouring/stalling. As I then come to the end of the braking procedure the Passat will usually cut the engine at about 2mph.

Of course I can prevent this happening by either a) switching off start/stop or b) holding the clutch down until I have come to a complete stop.

Anyway, it's no biggie. I just thought I'd point out that the VAG system is not perfect.

[Spinney]

So, auto and non VAG are the way forward then. 😁

[TBD]

2 hours ago, Spinney said:

So, auto and non VAG are the way forward then. 😁

Also, add Mini to the list. My wifeys Mini is glorious at dying whenever it should restart at a traffic light. This is her third Mini with the same issue!

[Steve V8]

I've another complaint, borrowed wifey's car yesterday (BMW 2 series auto) to pop some parcels down to the local shop, whilst waiting to turn right off the main carrideway (for oncoming traffic to clear), once again I'd forgot to turn the damn Stop/start off so it stopped...traffic cleared released brake, hit throttle, car starts and begins to move off WITHOUT POWER STEERING for again, only a split second, but enough to alter my intended path into the carpark.

I think we have established that on certain vehicles in certain situations, stop/start could be dangerous, it's also a useful gadget when required... So should the default be off until needed?, rather than default on, which has been the case on wifey's last three cars (Mini, BMW 118)

[electro_boy]

I didn't have any problems on a 2009ish BMW 535d GT with the stop start.  Even when being cheeky and squeezing into small gaps at roundabouts and junctions.  Yes there is a learning curve and some tricks you can use but I managed to figure them after a week or so of driving the car.  Maybe have read of the manual so you understand how the system works  and can work around it when you may need that instant get up and go eg. come off the brake slightly to trigger the engine to start up.  Then again ... I could just drive like a granddad so my fast driving may not actually be that fast hence I didn't notice any issues.  😄

 

[Colin P]

@TBD @Steve V8 latest (F56) minis can be permanently turned off unless you select Green Mode, as is Mrs Ps. R56 can’t and it drives my eldest mad, he turns it off every time he gets in the car.

[Dan E]

5 hours ago, Steve V8 said:

I've another complaint, borrowed wifey's car yesterday (BMW 2 series auto) to pop some parcels down to the local shop, whilst waiting to turn right off the main carrideway (for oncoming traffic to clear), once again I'd forgot to turn the damn Stop/start off so it stopped...traffic cleared released brake, hit throttle, car starts and begins to move off WITHOUT POWER STEERING for again, only a split second, but enough to alter my intended path into the carpark.

I think we have established that on certain vehicles in certain situations, stop/start could be dangerous, it's also a useful gadget when required... So should the default be off until needed?, rather than default on, which has been the case on wifey's last three cars (Mini, BMW 118)

@Steve V8 maybe reverse engineer out the starter motor and have a crank handle. Me I love it all, in a everyday car I want heated everything including steering wheel, auto everything and a lot of buttons, intelligent lighting systems are brilliant, reversing cameras, head up display, you name it I will have it. Although saying that the Van can apparently park itself but I haven’t used it yet mainly because I can’t work out how to be fair I didn’t spec it as it was dealer stock. 

[clivef38]

As a mechanic and have to work on second hand so called modern tech. We are told by the management to not go on road test without a phone. I live in the sticks so the amount of time is short that it would be of any good. Dont trust trust it.

[CaptainSlow]

My three latest daily drivers have had this little feature. To me it’s more about how the manufacturer have managed to implement it. My Mercedes GLK -14 was brilliant, couldn’t really notice. As soon as you let go of the break the engine turned on smoothly and off you went.

After that I had a Mazda 6 -16, not as smooth when re-starting. In some cases really annoying. Especially when you just stopped at a red light which then went green imidiately, then the Mazda hesitated a bit before realizing that I actually wanted to get going again. I did turned it off from time to time.

Currently driving a Volvo XC40 -19. Maybe not as smooth as the Mercedes was. But good enough not to annoy me.

[Steve V8]

4 hours ago, Dan E said:

Although saying that the Van can apparently park itself but I haven’t used it yet mainly because I can’t work out how to be fair I didn’t spec it as it was dealer stock. 

I hope it has a half on half off pavement feature built in...if a van isn't half on the pavement it's not properly parked.

Has it got built in bicycle squirters...????

[ChrisJ]

First time I've had this in my new car (Audi A3). Works fine (so far) along-side the auto brake.

The only annoying thing with the auto brake is that when you take your foot off the brake, the rear brake lights are still on.

[TBD]

On 18/03/2019 at 19:42, Colin P said:

@TBD @Steve V8 latest (F56) minis can be permanently turned off unless you select Green Mode, as is Mrs Ps. R56 can’t and it drives my eldest mad, he turns it off every time he gets in the car.

Apparently this differs by country. However, I found the app Bimmercode that allowed me to change the settings together with an OBD dongle. 

[Colin P]

@TBD are you referring to the F56 or R56. If the R56 can be reprogrammed my son would be overjoyed 

[TBD]

On 11/04/2019 at 19:50, Colin P said:

@TBD are you referring to the F56 or R56. If the R56 can be reprogrammed my son would be overjoyed 

Only the F-series (2014 onwards)