Formula One

[C8RKH]

Just now, Chillidoggy said:

 

Calm down, or you'll end up having a coronary. I was surprised you'd written all that lot when you said you weren't going to watch it next year.

I'm calm. Very calm. Was just encouraging you to try harder

 

[LotusFella]

hold on let me get my popcorn.  looking forward to this

 

 

[exeterjeep]

4 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

watch it next year.

watch what? what  Formula Mas1

[Chillidoggy]

2 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I'm calm. Very calm. Was just encouraging you to try harder

 

To do what?

As I said, I was surprised you posted about next year, as you'd said you wouldn't be watching it. That's all.

[jimichanga]

People still complaining about Lewis’s lead being taken away. That’s what always happens to the leading car when a safety car is called. It’s never fair but usually makes the race more exciting.

The only controversy is the change in decision to clear the cars between the two title contenders. This can only have helped Max but by how much we’ll never know. The 5 cars would surely have got out the way pretty quick. It was not fair on Lewis but ending under a safety car would have been unfair on Max and been the anti climax of the century. Max went from having no chance to a good chance but he still had it all to do. He still had to pass Lewis without taking him out or needing to give back the place. Lewis should have seen the opportunity not the injustice, easier said than done but that’s what was needed and his team should have been supporting him ‘you’ve got this Lewis’ and the like. If it was his first title I don’t see MV getting past. Given what was at stake he left Max a lot of room perhaps thinking he’ll get him back on the straights which he nearly pulled off. But it’s generally easier to keep the lead than retake it.

[C8RKH]

Rollocks, not complaining about his lead being taken away as you well know Jonny (I'm guessing here re the name). Are you really saying that the decisions "might" have helped Max? One on new qualy tyres, the other on 45+ lap old race tyres.  This is just getting stupid now as how would ending under a safety car been unfair to Max when was already losing, was 8 seconds plus back and losing more time?  And remember, maybe he gave Max a lot of room as if Max had "sensationally" hit him and they both went out, oh, Max was the WDC? Also, how hard could he really fight on tyres that old.  Me thinks you're smoking something. But that's OK, we're entitled to different views.

[hedgerley]

Massi was on a hiding to nothing and I do have some sympathy for him. In the heat of the moment, being yelled at by both team leaders, he made a bad call. Given the choice of a finish under the safety car (dull, unedifying etc etc) or manufacturing a last lap sprint 'to give Max a chance' and have a "motor race, Toto" he made the wrong decision, not just in the majority of fans opinions but many of the drivers and the F1 pundits as well.

I accept that letting all 8 lapped cars through would probably have taken them in to the last lap and under the rule of 'safety car in at the end of the next lap', with no lap 59 or 60, it would have finished under the safety car. But that decision would have been consistent with the regulations and the precedent set by Massi himself (as I mentioned, see the Eifel GP, 2020) We'd all have a bit of moan and get on with our lives. But he only let 5 cars through and called the safety car in early, that's what it boils down to.

Given the furore his decisions have generated, its clear that adhering to the regulations and precedent would have been the least worse choice. That's why I think we should understand why he took the decision he did. That's all I'm saying.

I've absolutely no problem with Max winning the championship, he thoroughly deserved it based on 21 races and a 50/50 shot at the title in the final race. if Lewis had been told to hand the lead back on lap 1 after his off track excursion and it was Max leading on lap 50 when the accident happened, I'd argue the point just as much, although I doubt Christian Horner would have agreed with Massi if the situation was reversed 😉

[Neal H]

Perhaps we’ve got it all wrong by misinterpreting the title “Race Director” Perhaps it’s the same as Film Director - direct the show to produce the best possible entertainment.

[exeterjeep]

20 minutes ago, Neal H said:

same as Film Director - direct the show t

For a new Carry on film?

[TdM]

Good to see Lewis getting knighted today and looking cheerful.

I'm still furious though, not sure how he is smiling so much!

[exeterjeep]

19 minutes ago, TdM said:

Good to see Lewis getting knighted today and looking cheerful.

Perhaps Prince Charles could offer to knight Max or Horner - he has a sword handy.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Looking ahead and assuming LH continues, it should spice up the 2022 season, now with the real pressure on LH to snaffle that 8th title. He’ll be going all out. Hopefully George Russell will also be more of a threat to MV than the timid Finn.

[electro_boy]

9 hours ago, PascalM said:

Sure, both Max and Lewis had their fair share of overtaking rules infringement. But let us be honest, isn’t all that overtaking not making F1 much more fun to watch? That’s what the public wants to see. Just bring back plain motor racing

Because, in the end, isn’t overtaking on a narrow track always pushing the ‘other’ competitor? If that’s an issue, then rewrite the big book of rules to 1 sentence: no overtaking.

Max diving up the inside of someone like a torpedo or defending his position by shoving them off the track is not fun to watch; thats not what motor racing is about for me.

Have a look at how Perez defended against Hamilton in the last race or Alonso vs Ham in Hungry to give Ocon the win.  That showed much more skill and racing knowledge in my opinion.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Max does not have skill, I truly think he is very very good indeed, but his overtakes and defence moves against Hamilton need work.  

Take a look any race where Max coming through the grid when he has got a penalty or after a pit stop and he needs to clear people that are on a different strategy who have got in front.  He has used some very cleaver and brave moves to get round people very quickly.  This is very different to how he typically attempts a move on Hamilton.  Max knows he doesn't have the pace to do it cleanly (like he does with the slower cars) so he uses his torpedo method and doesn't really care about the consequences.

[Techyd]

I think that about sums it up for me - Max is still inexperienced in the scheme of things having gone almost directly from Karts to F1 at an incredibly young age.

He hasn’t learned the sort of race craft that Hamilton and Alonso have for instance to race cleanly and hard, the dual they had earlier in the year was mighty to watch and Lewis post race comments were nothing but complimentary (though he was frustrated at the time if I recall!)

 

Max is fast but as above comments have said he absolutely cannot take his torpedo strategy forward and needs to develop patience and better techniques if he really is to truly compete with the greats.

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, TdM said:

Good to see Lewis getting knighted today and looking cheerful.

I'm still furious though, not sure how he is smiling so much!

£250m or more in the Bank buys a lifestyle that help you to generate some miles.

Don't begrudge him a penny of it by the way, he earned it.

46 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Looking ahead and assuming LH continues, it should spice up the 2022 season, now with the real pressure on LH to snaffle that 8th title. He’ll be going all out. Hopefully George Russell will also be more of a threat to MV than the timid Finn.

It was clear that Bottas just did not turn up really for the last few races.  Says more about Bottas than anything.

42 minutes ago, electro_boy said:

Take a look any race where Max coming through the grid when he has got a penalty or after a pit stop and he needs to clear people that are on a different strategy who have got in front.  He has used some very cleaver and brave moves to get round people very quickly.  This is very different to how he typically attempts a move on Hamilton.  Max knows he doesn't have the pace to do it cleanly (like he does with the slower cars) so he uses his torpedo method and doesn't really care about the consequences.

This in spades. Though as defending world champion, I think he will be under more pressure next year than Hamilton.  Not sure Max handles the pressure well. I mean, we haven't really spoken about it, but Lewis on the harder tyre, smoked Max off the line on the Soft - who read that in the script? I think Max stuttered under the intense pressure at the start.

[drdoom]

Through all this discussion I've yet to see sound justification for Masi's tinkering with regard to the late restart. As to the notion that it was imperative that the race result be on account of racing, therefore justifying waffling to and fro on the Safety Car protocols, the fact stands that it WAS racing which had brought forth the situation up to the point of Latifi's accident. Is it not clear that it was racing which put LH nicely out front with MV on the back foot by then? Ultimately it was a matter of politics alone that shifted the result from one driver's championship to the other's.

[pete]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Looking ahead and assuming LH continues, it should spice up the 2022 season, now with the real pressure on LH to snaffle that 8th title. He’ll be going all out. Hopefully George Russell will also be more of a threat to MV than the timid Finn.

Russell maybe more of a threat to Lewis if he out qualifies him and takes points off him by finishing in front of him

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

True, but he’ll be taking many of those points of MV too.

[C8RKH]

44 minutes ago, pete said:

Russell maybe more of a threat to Lewis if he out qualifies him and takes points off him by finishing in front of him

And what are we basing that on? I'm not convinced re Russell. He's good. But then so is LeClerq, Sainz, Norris, et al. Is he really THAT MUCH better than them?

One thing I do believe is that he is going to be a cracking partner to Lewis and the two of them will take the fight back to RBR.

[rudolphwolven]

*****

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by rudolphwolven

[pete]

It's based on the only evidence we have,his qualifying no. 1 the only time he drove the mercedes

[lotus-62]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

True, but he’ll be taking many of those points of MV too.

I do hope so as I do not want Max to turn into a Lewis and win more than half his titles on cruise control, that would be a shame for the sport. (and really boring to watch) so lets hope non will have a dominant car and it comes back to driver skills, something the sport needs. 

as a cheesehead (German nickname for us Dutch)  I enjoyed the last lap and am very happy for Max but I feel for Lewis as well, a gentleman loser something Toto is not

[rudolphwolven]

* * * * *

Today, 15:30

Hamilton's behavior in Abu Dhabi is a violation of sporting regulations

Formula 1 journalist Dieter Rencken is disappointed in how Mercedes is behaving after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. The team filed multiple protests and now, a few days after the race, still seems to want to protest.
Max Verstappen won the world championship in Abu Dhabi, but the team of title rival Lewis Hamilton disagreed. Mercedes filed two protests with the FIA after the race. Both protests were rejected by the stewards, but Mercedes has indicated that it wants to challenge the stewards' decision.

"I think it goes beyond unsportsmanlike behaviour," says Formula 1 journalist Dieter Rencken in the English version of the RacingNews365 podcast. "Maybe Toto Wolff doesn't know how to lose, but in the end that's no excuse.

"We are talking about what a global top sport should be and you have to behave according to that. I am very, very disappointed in the behavior of Mercedes," said the F1 journalist.

Hamilton is also unsportsmanlike
Hamilton showed himself very sporty after the race. The Briton shook Verstappen's hand and congratulated him, but according to Rencken this was all for the stage. The Mercedes driver was not at the press conference and did not give any interviews later.

"As for Lewis's behaviour, it's all well and good to congratulate someone on the podium and give the occasional TV interview on track. But in the end the tough questions are being asked by the media and he wasn't there That is a violation of the sports regulations," the F1 journalist knows.

The Mercedes team also failed to show up for an FIA photo opportunity just before the year-end gala. It therefore seems as if the German racing stable wants to boycott the entire gala, where the World Cup will also be handed over. According to Rencken, that is also not allowed. "The sports regulations state that they must be there and also attend the press conferences."

Is Mercedes waiting to file a protest?
Mercedes has indicated on Sunday after the race that it wants to protest against the decision of the stewards. However, there has not been an official protest yet, but the German team does not have much time for that either.

If Mercedes has not filed a protest before Thursday evening, December 16, it will be too late. Let the official prize gala be on that very evening. Rencken expects Mercedes to wait with the announcement with their protest until just before the gala.

"The sporting regulations state very clearly that the recipient of the trophy during the FIA prize gala is the champion, period. Then it will be too late to change it," the F1 journalist said.

Big boss Mercedes is also silent
Rencken also finds it striking that no sign of life has been given from the umbrella organization of Mercedes. "Most telling is that there has been no response from Mercedes CEO Ola Kallenius. He is ultimately the boss of Toto Wolff."

"The exact structure is a bit complicated, but there is a three-pointed star on the front of the car. Kallenius didn't say a word, but was in Abu Dhabi," Rencken said. "He has not condemned the FIA and has not praised the champion , not a single word. I find that very strange."

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Who the hell is Dieter Rencken? Give it a rest now, you’re coming across as embarrassed that your guy won.

[C8RKH]

He is. Because he knows it was fixed!