Formula One

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Maybe we should also honour today’s FIA deadline for appealing and now just move on to posting about the 2022 season?

[mg4lotus]

We've still got until this evening.😄

[exeterjeep]

12 minutes ago, mg4lotus said:

We've still got until this evening.😄

Depends on what time zone your in?

[pete]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Whoosh, and now the bullying card is played. Seems having a strong opinion and venting it is bullying. Wow. 

And there is the problem

[C8RKH]

2 minutes ago, pete said:

And there is the problem

Wow. As I said. Really!  Well, you are entitled to your own opinion of course, and it will be respected, but I'm actually struggling to see where any "bullying" has taken place so please feel free to provide the examples to support such a serious allegation on here. Or is asking for this, another example of direct communication that will be taken as bullying?  

[pete]

A facetious reply. You are so dominant in your replies and you don't regard it as bullying. Your opinion is only opinion. I understand you don't see the problem but to some it is 

[Bibs]

May I suggest you gents make use of the ignore facility and we get back on topic please

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/ignore/

[EldonZ]

@C8RKH& @pete

Guys,

Please stop the personal attacks. You both have brought interesting conversation to this thread. Everybody is entitled to their opinion because it is their opinion. When emotion gets involved, your opinion has less meaning. I have seen other threads devolve in to this type of back and forth and it really hurts both persons creditability.

In the US, we have had to put up with this type of conversations since a certain President has managed to polarize conversations that shouldn't be polarized but discussed. This polarization has started to effect almost all topics of discussion because that is becoming the norm. I come over hear to discuss F1 because there is intelligent discussion and opinions are respected.

Have a Great Day,
Eldon

[C8RKH]

The FIA messed up. They should have fixed it, but they didn't. So we have a load of fallout.  I think Hamilton was cheated out of the WDC this year. Max is a great driver, but he doesn't always play fair and yet he thinks he is the one who always gets picked on, does not get the rub of the green. His winning of the WDC has been tarnished (not his doing) and it will always be the subject of debate in many years to come as to whether it was right, just and fair.  Those who cannot see why some people see the injustice in the result (i.e. true lack of sportsmanship) I do think have a view that is skewed against Hamilton for whatever reason. They are also gently stoking the fire to get the reactions. I'll leave my summary there, back on topic.

[C8RKH]

@rudolphwolven - What are you confused about? How can I help?

[LotusFella]

I bet most, if not all the "something unjust just happened here" people are us old geezers.  Where has the respect and the sense of fair play gone?

[exeterjeep]

George Russell testing his new (old) Mercedes ready to win next year.

[Neal H]

I have high hopes for George! He was sensational in F2 and some of his qualifying performances for Williams have been outstanding. It’s not often you see a driver in a poor car clearly outperforming it.

We’ll see whether he’s good enough to regularly take the fight to Hamilton, or whether - like Bottas - he’s about to find out just how good Hamilton actually is on a Sunday.

[exeterjeep]

Lewis Hamilton could QUIT F1 after being left ‘disillusioned’ by Max Verstappen’s title win, says Mercedes boss Wolff

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/motorsport/17059387/lewis-hamilton-could-quit-f1-wolff/

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff says Hamilton will NEVER get over being 'robbed' of the world title by FIA race director, Michael Masi.

Wolff said: "Lewis and I are disillusioned at the moment. We are not disillusioned with the sport - we love the sport with every bone in our body and we love it because the stopwatch never lies.

Well this is the Sun.

[jep]

2 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Lewis Hamilton could QUIT F1 after being left ‘disillusioned

Good bargaining chip Vs Liberty Media. Lewis is almost the only F1 driver with mass appeal/recognition worldwide and in particular the USA. 

Liberty Media cannot afford to lose Lewis. 

Justin

 

[jep]

4 hours ago, LotusFella said:

Where has the respect and the sense of fair play gone?

I think Bernie sold that off in late 80s.

Justin

[PaulCP]

My last post about the Abu Dhabi GP fiasco.

Regarding Mercedes not going through with the appeal, I think Mercedes have left things in the air for this long to allow fans and the public to rage at the FIA. It’s the worldwide condemnation of Masi and his actions that have forced the FIA to launch their investigation.

Toto has said he welcomes the FIA inviting the teams and drivers to have input to this review.

Toto said today - We cannot continue in a sport that is meant to be sport followed by entertainment and not the other way around.

From what Toto has said and from other sources it would appear that Mercedes may consider withdrawing from the championship. If they take their engines with them that leaves six teams for next year. Other sources suggest that a rival championship could be in place for 2023.

Lots of intimations, veiled threats and ‘an unnamed spokesman said’ comments floating around at the moment.

F1 is a multi-million dollar championship owned by Liberty Media. It is run under, or supposed to be run under FIA rules. Liberty Media have the most to lose. They need the championship and for it to be successful they need the big teams.

The FIA appear to have not grasped the problem so far. Although they have announced that an investigation into what happened they have said the aim will be to ‘clarify the rules for 2022’. Numerous legal minds have gone through the regulations and confirmed that they are perfectly clear already. The problem is that the rules were not followed not that they need clarifying.

For anyone interested in the legal interpretation of the rules and why Mercedes has a strong case for appeal, this article written by a lawyer is worth a read.

https://medium.com/@gwkj1/analysing-the-fia-rulebook-after-the-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-a-lawyers-perspective-571ca3810060

The irony is that the FIA’s rather condescending statement yesterday suggested the teams, fans and media have misunderstood the rules, yet it appears it’s the FIA Race Director that doesn’t understand…

If the FIA don’t get this right then Liberty Media need to appoint a new regulatory body to oversee the championship or there may not be one.

[C8RKH]

11 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

If the FIA don’t get this right then Liberty Media need to appoint a new regulatory body to oversee the championship or there may not be one.

The big issue is that while Liberty Media might "own" the media rights to Formula One, it is the FIA who should be the independent rule makers and judges,  not stooges to the "owners". It's a fine line between "owning" the media rights (e.g. in UK football it is the Premier League who own the rights) and the people who referee the sport to ensure fairness.

[Escape]

22 hours ago, rudolphwolven said:

*****

I am certainly not embarressed, only surprised about the morbid doggedness among approx. 5 same posters that have a day's job to post here day after day and post after post.

It is my only intention to show the other side of the story, which certainly is there and to show my affection to my Dutch fellow Max Verstappen.......

 

It seems only the Dutch are happy with the way the race was rigged. I tell everyone who thinks otherwise MV is NOT a Belgian and I feel no pride whatsoever in his victory. I can't understand how anyone could be proud. Despite his performance throughout the season, this was not a clean or deserved victory. I'm not a fan of LH either but I find it a shame the title fight was rigged to his disadvantage.

The article of Rencken (also Dutch I assume?) is a sad attempt to shift the blame. How could Mercedes take part in celebrating this farce? They should withdraw from F1 as a statement, but no doubt have far to many resources committed already.

What did he expect LH to say to the press? "Hope you got the spectacle you paid for"? He literally had nothing to add to the discussion at that point, no doubt the team was still planning a reaction/appeal. 

[mg4lotus]

On 13/12/2021 at 12:17, mg4lotus said:

Mercedes Benz won the constructors championship but I bet they will be considering whether it is worth all the money they invest in the sport when the outcomes can be affected so arbitrarily and the rules flouted or interpreted at whim.

Roll on Formula Premiership. I hope it doesn't happen but won't be surprised if it does.

[mayevora]

FIA awards Lewis Hamilton’s knighthood to Max Verstappen

Prince Charles has unexpectedly presented a knighthood to Max Verstappen after the FIA gave the Dutch F1 driver permission to burst into the ceremony at Windsor Castle to snatch the honour from Lewis Hamilton at the last minute.

As Prince Charles explained, “It was utterly appalling. Just before it happened, I was telling Lewis Hamilton not to feel bad about losing the Grand Prix on the last lap, because sometimes when someone’s been sitting in the number one spot for a very, very, long time, it’s only fair that they make way for another monarch, I mean driver, to have their turn at the top.”

Verstappen reportedly made use of this break in proceedings to change into a fresh pair of running shoes, before FIA officials allowed him to rush in and take the knighthood for himself when the ceremony restarted.

Prince Charles then chased Verstappen around the grounds of Windsor Castle but ended up being lapped twice by the Dutchman before losing control and colliding with the Albert Memorial Chapel.

Sir Max Verstappen told reporters, “No, I’m not giving up the F1 title, or my knighthood. True, maybe the rules of F1 weren’t followed correctly, and apparently there might be some rules against breaking into Windsor Castle and stealing a medal too, but let’s not forget the important most important rule of all – no takey-backsies.”

An FIA spokesperson told us, “We understand that some F1 fans will be frustrated by Sir Max’s new knighthood, and will no doubt point to the well-established rules that clearly state that knighthoods should go to whoever was awarded them in the honour’s list.

“But we would politely point those fans to regulation 127(b), subsection 23, which clearly states that we can do whatever the fuck we like.”

[TdM]

I'm sorry... I'm still going.

I'm really annoyed by large chunks of the F1 press right now and also some fans.

A lot of press are saying that it's good for the sport that Mercedes dropped the case, some saying that they were being bad sports. I'm sorry, but there is no way on Earth you can justify what happened on Sunday. It was dirty as hell and the press are trying to flip it on Mercedes and Toto/Lewis as being bad sports for not accepting that it happened.

I think the whole structure of F1 top to bottom is exposing itself as rotten to the core. They are a dirty dictatorship and everyone even remotely reliant on F1 for a paycheck is afraid of the FIA. 

Now, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but take football as a good example of how a community reacts to injustice. They see corruption or wrong doing and they realise it's a threat to the sport and force the establishment into climb downs, the press cover it, the fans protest.

In F1 the press are scared, half the fans don't seem to care if the system is broken as long as they get a different champion and nothing will change.

I've cancelled my subscriptions to anything related to F1 and I really want to move on but I've been following this, what I thought was a sport, for decades and I've seen some dirty crap in my time doing so, trust me. But I just can't believe the awful response from the FIA, journalists and large members of the community to this utter disregard of sporting values.

Apologies for the rant, I needed an outlet and this is the place least likely to have someone wind me up even more with an inane response.

[Chillidoggy]

I like watching F1, however I learned years ago not to get wound up by something I have no control over, and which has absolutely no effect on my daily life whatsoever.*

 

 

*My mother excluded.

[exeterjeep]

Well it's not quite the end of the year yet, so still time for a few more re-actions. 

Saw this one from a driver I enjoyed to watch - 

Montoya: ‘Too aggressive’ Verstappen ‘got away with it’

https://www.planetf1.com/news/juan-pablo-montoya-max-verstappen-aggression/

but also says Merc strategy was wrong.

[exeterjeep]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1540340/F1-latest-Michael-Masi-future-settled-Lewis-Hamilton-GOAT-debate-Mercedes?fbclid=IwAR18aypNOqlMDjw9B72ZU9MMOPAoPhkwJ9f91ioPSlcm5MiTxXIZHMtfJuM