Who will buy a 131?

[NedaSay]

Why do you think that the AMG engine is an option for Lotus? Why would Lotus pay royalty on this engine? While it can get an engine that will be royalty free, more powerful and that will not require extra additionnal training at dealerships! I don't get where the AMG 4cyl idea come from. I don't know why people rave about it, when Volvo Polestar has an engine that has some 30bhp on it in standard guise and a 120bhp in its most extreme incarnation.  As far as we know Lotus will either keep using Toyota's engine for this last run of combustion engine or more likely as they are stakeholders in Geely-Volvo new engine joint venture will get bespoke tuned Geely/Volvo engineered 4cyl and V6s.

Geely owning a 9% share of Daimler doesn't mean they can give Lotus access to the AMG engines. it is only a 9% share, first minority shareholder on paper,  but still only 9%,  Geely got Smart and the small engine manufacturing as part of the deal which is what they wanted.

[PAR]

The M139 AMG engine develops either 382bhp or 416bhp depending of which model and this is done without a plug in hybrid and with a very compact outlay.

I think there is a Volvo-Polestar at 416bhp but with a plug in hybrid so much heavier option.

there were interviews where the ex-CEO praised Geely for letting them source what they needed outside the group and AMG have been selling engine outside to the like of Aston Martin so that sounds like an option. 
 

But the Toyota continuity has some advantage too obviously and if there is a V6 then that doesn’t sound like an AMG one.

If it is a Volvo engine, homologated for the whole world and it makes servicing reasonable, then that sounds good too. 

 

[TomE]

Strategically it would make much more sense for Lotus to use Volvo-Polestar engines.  Cross-development (Lotus Engineering do lots of work for engine manufacturers), no negotiating a deal and royalties with another manufacturer, and a simpler path for a hybrid/EV option during the model lifecycle.

[Beady]

historically lotus have started with a cheaper / slower model then increased power/speed/ price.

Speaking with a dealer a few months back they were expecting starting prices to start with a £6.. at launch (I recall the evora started with a 4 at launch but only just)

i am expecting 2 seater only and if it looks the part and drives as a lotus should then i will be looking seriously...as i expect many on this forum will.

The problem Lotus have is converting buyers form other brands.

 

 

[JG220]

I expect I'll buy one. But not until 2023 at the earliest so that they've had 18 months of production to iron out the issues (given they still can't get an Elise right :D) go well along side the FE. 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, JG220 said:

I expect I'll buy one. But not until 2023 at the earliest so that they've had 18 months of production to iron out the issues (given they still can't get an Elise right :D) go well along side the FE. 

Funny comment given that the owners of Evora LE's are the most happy (it would seem) and LE's are the some of the most sought after S1's for purchasers!

[JG220]

I didn't have a good experience with my LE Evora. Some bits were just missing. Lotus were very helpful in providing them but it had a real feel of a prototype to it. I think LE's command premiums due to spec rather than anything else. 

Sport racer Evora for MK1 is where I would go, the quality is just on another level compared to LE. 

[au-yt]

On 28/02/2021 at 02:43, exeterjeep said:

Until we know what all the range options there are, it would be impossible for me to consider. If there is a variant that is easier to get in/out of than the Evora as I get older,  then that could be my next car. Also as the last lotus with a petrol / petrol hybrid it may have to be the one to choose. Lets hope it comes with a good length warranty. 

Recent like Wednesday discussion with the Australian dealer principal, your not far of the mark.

aluminium tub, easier to get in and out of, petrol, manual, 2 seat half way between Exige and Evora , more commercial orientated, with most likely late may June release. 
my speculation it will be Toyota engine.

[PAR]

8 hours ago, Beady said:

historically lotus have started with a cheaper / slower model then increased power/speed/ price.

I really hope they don’t do that this time. It is a strategy that may capitalise on existing owners (same people buy and then upgrade later) but it doesn’t give them a chance to widen the appeal of the brand. Better to start with a more desirable product that may appeal to many people even if people can’t afford it and then make it more competitive price wise later with a version with less bhp  later to sustain the sales.

Ideally, they launched a V6, 450bhp rather luxurious, then a 4 cyl cheaper with a more basic feel, then convertible versions, then a GT4 500bhp version and improve just a bit every year.

[Arregueti]

I would probably go for some variation of type 131 if they do offer effectively an Elise replacement in the range. Two seater, pure, simple, convertible is what I would go for.

An affordable sports car that I could thrash in my favourite B-roads. Lower construction costs, more machinery involved and 4 cilinders would be ok as a necessary compromise for affordability.

The Elise's gear change experience has never been the best in the market for me, so  I could even consider a ZF, DCT if this helps keeping costs down, though I would prefer a manual (BMW and Porsche seem to be succesfully marketing the survival of the manuals to some extent).

It does not need to be as spartan inside as the Elise, but I would really like to preserve the rawness and connection.

The Elise is leaving the market one year too early for me, unfortunately, so if they have a relatively affordable two-seater convertible by next summer I might well be tempted.

So, I guess I am begging them to keep some sort of Elise in the range (maybe simply by selling the tooling to Caterham and let them do it?).

Otherwise, I am afraid I might be one of the guys that would be left behind by type 131 and the new effort to place the brand higher into the supercar market. Obviously dependent on what the new car will offer, but I don't see myself replacing the Evora just for better access, newer technology because of TFT displays and better infotainment. Just as I don´t see myself investing over 90-100k in a sports car.

I accept that the brand and marketplace need to evolve and I do not consider myself a "purist" or a brand loyalist (after all I am new to the brand having just bought one Evora, which was too big for a Lotus when it was released) but I think Lotus should continue doing what they are good at and build from there.

I could also buy a sporty sedan, when their development funds allow, though.

I know everyone has the money on Lotus going upmarket into super and hyper car territory because the current range (is it former now?) was not profitable, but there are also examples of struggling car companies being saved by smaller affordable cars (Peugeot with the 205 and Lotus itself with the Elise), while Maybach and others failed to find their niche in the upper end of the market. Maybe they are currently reassessing and pulling lessons from the Evija, though it is true these have been a crazy couple of years.

What seems a constant is that there is a crisis whenever Lotus plans releasing a new car. It is never easy.

 

[C8RKH]

Looks like the Type 131 is gearing up for a go. Thought I'd get in quick and beat Autocar to the latest "exclusive" rendering of the new Lotus Type 131!

[TomE]

@Arregueti I think you'll see the Type 131 as a category-crossing play by Lotus, rather than a single model.  Stopping Elise, Exige and Evora and also having aspirations to go up market mean they will want to take a platform approach.  We already know the Type 131 launch will include a V6 manual at the (initial) upper end and a 4cyl turbo DCT at the lower end, with both being positioned as being "between" Elise/Exige and Evora.  The partnership with Alpine will add a model too.  The recent Type 131 teaser showed three hidden cars, so maybe there's a third or maybe that's the Alpine one.  I imagine the model strategy will include adding more variants going up market and rounding out the middle.

Exciting times, some more teaser shots due soon and the launch only 4 months away.

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Looks like the Type 131 is gearing up for a go. Thought I'd get in quick and beat Autocar to the latest "exclusive" rendering of the new Lotus Type 131!

Looks like an bumpy ride on those rims.

[DarrylV8]

@TomE as you appear to know there will be a 4 cylinder turbo with a DCT box, do you know whose engine/transmission and are you privy to any other details you can share?

[TomE]

@DarrylV8 not yet on engine.  There's some speculation it would be a Volvo-Polestar unit, which makes sense as it's another Geely group company.  Cross-group working on development would fit, as Lotus Engineering do consultancy work for several manufacturers on engines and transmissions as well as handling.  The VEP4 has a Volvo version at 320PS and a Polestar version at 370PS, both 2.0L turbo.

In the future a Volvo-Polestar power unit will also cover hybrid and full EV options, and Lotus need to think about having those during the Type 131 platform lifespan.

There's also some speculation it might be another Toyota unit.  That obviously builds on the current relationship and success of having Toyota engines in the Elise/Exige/Evora.

The other info I have is about the V6 manual being the first launch version, again no info yet on manufacturer but the same speculation.  There's no current Volvo V6 I can find, so I guess there's more chance of that being a Toyota.

[C8RKH]

Let's hope it also uses the newly announced Volvo Google auto platform. Less cluttered dash through the adoption of more speech controls etc...

Would be super bling and slick in terms of the interior. Very leading edge, high tech, ground breaking, etc. Just what lotus is known for historically.

 

Toyota has a lovely new 3.5 V6 twin turbo that would be ideal. Only 670bhp though I believe

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/toyota-unveils-twin-turbo-v6-gr010-hybrid-le-mans-hypercar-for-2021-wec-5115264/5115264/

[exeterjeep]

46 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Let's hope it also uses the newly announced Volvo Google auto platform

Anything with google in would not be something I would be looking for. 

[C8RKH]

They can put an apple in the chilled glovebox for you.

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Let's hope it also uses the newly announced Volvo Google auto platform. Less cluttered dash through the adoption of more speech controls etc...

Unlikely: 

 

[Bibs]

It would be A Massive Gain to have an epic engine! 

I'd like to buy one, I know that much. In truth, it's more than likely going to be the car that prises me out of my Evora. 

[PAR]

What the engine will be should have its own entry by now!
 

This car could last till 2030 so that means they ideally need to pick something quite modern with a global footprint and that keep being updated for emissions etc for the next 9 years.
 

That is where I wonder if the Toyota link will work as the Toyota 3.5l V6 is unlikely to be around for that long.

[TomE]

Exactly, that's why I think Volvo-Polestar.  The lack of a current V6 is a puzzle, unless the Type 131 is going to be the first of a new Geely V6 but that just seems too far-fetched.  If they can use the more recent Toyota direct injection V6 rather than the 2GR-FE from the Evora and V6 Exige then it would meet global emissions and have more longevity.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

16 hours ago, Bibs said:

It would be A Massive Gain to have an epic engine! 

I see what you did there. Inside information?

[DarrylV8]

@Bibs not thinking of keeping the Evora and still having a 131?

[PAR]

I am sure he is thinking about it. Then he wakes up.