Lotus Emira

[KJD]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

@Evotion and I were there yesterday

Did you have a punch up over suspension options?

[EmiraSi]

1 hour ago, Mctaff said:

Just publish some photos of the real cars ffs!!!

1000% this!!! I couldn't care less about seeing a CGI Emira on a road in California, I just want to see photos of cars outside on an average grey, winter day.

[Nathan Pitman]

I find it bizarre that the cars have existed at the factory in different colours (and also the yellow one in China) for some time, yet no official press photos have been released, posted on the website or distributed to deposit holders.

[TomE]

Dark Verdant is not Empire/Imperial Green.  It is slightly lighter than that but not by much.  I saw a car in part sun part shade and the sunlit part was clearly green and you could see the metallic in it from a few feet away (unlike the Seneca where the metallic flake is finer-grained and only obvious when you stand next to the car).  The shaded side was dark and the metallic almost invisible from a few feet.  the interesting thing with the many curves on the car is how the colour flows and changes a lot as the surface changes and as you omove around the car.  It looks very classy but yes it is dark and in some lighting looks almost black.

I'm not sure I'd bother adding Black Pack.  I think it could show a contrast between the black roof and dark green body which could (I can't confirm) make the green more obviously green in some lighting.

[Mctaff]

Thanks Tom, sounds similar to my expectations, albeit not much like the configurator!!

[hedgerley]

The Autocar piece from two weeks ago is now online for anyone that missed it.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/worth-weight-lotus-emira-first-ride

[stephenwhyte]

Out of interest @TomEdid you 4 approach Lotus or did they approach you? Just interested to know how the invite came about? I think it’s a great idea personally and your findings and reports, should reassure a lot of those concerned.
I’ve been to the factory (last October with work and there were cars on the line then) and I for one was very reassured by what I saw at Hethel……but can understand the frustrations of those that are desperate to see examples before finally committing…👍

[TomE]

2 hours ago, KJD said:

Did you have a punch up over suspension options?

We arm-wrestled for it and I won

As per Ade's write up here, we had a long discussion with lead development driver Driess and all reached the same conclusion:

• Touring - Most ideal for most people. Absolutely perfect for those who will use the car as a daily driver and it is there only car. Still capable on track.
• Sports - More feel but the odd road bump will be felt more. Perfect for those who will have the car as a 2nd or 3rd car. More relevant if you will track the car occasionally.

We asked Dreiss what he would get for his own Emira and he said ..... Touring because he would be mostly driving on the roads rather than on track.

Lotus are about to publish a note with further guidance on suspension choices, written by Gav Kerhsaw.

[TomE]

2 minutes ago, stephenwhyte said:

Out of interest @TomEdid you 4 approach Lotus or did they approach you? Just interested to know how the invite came about? I think it’s a great idea personally and your findings and reports, should reassure a lot of those concerned.
I’ve been to the factory (last October with work and there were cars on the line then) and I for one was very reassured by what I saw at Hethel……but can understand the frustrations of those that are desperate to see examples before finally committing…👍

As you may know if you follow my posts on Facebook, EmiraForum and on here, I have been expressing my frustration with the poor comms and haphazard customer care from Lotus.  Not just my own experience but what I have been seeing from other customers.  I've also been trying to fill in some of the gaps and correct mis-information to help other deposit holders, based on what I know.  But I was getting increasingly frustrated with lack of comms by Lotus and inconsistent answers being given to people by Customer Care, dealers and unofficial channels.

I discussed that with Scott Walker before Christmas in light of the calls to people about June delivery slots and a major change of approach on deposits and changes to spec.  He shared my written feedback plus input from several other customers with Lotus senior management.  Scott then asked me and 3 others from a longer list of possibles up to Hethel for visits on Thursday and Friday.

Many of you know Scott and his passion for Lotus.  He deserves huge credit for listening to many of us, lobbying for some of us to talk with Lotus directors and making these visit days happen.

[stephenwhyte]

Good shout @TomE👏👏👍

[ramjet]

The Autocar piece has me confused. He states at the start Gavan is going to take him out in one of the electric cars. When they are moving to the track, he mentions the low rumble of the V6. Also mentions Gavan changing gear at 4,500 etc. At the end of the piece, he says "The electricians want their car back."

I am not sure which car was used for the drive?

[stephenwhyte]

17 minutes ago, ramjet said:

The Autocar piece has me confused. He states at the start Gavan is going to take him out in one of the electric cars. When they are moving to the track, he mentions the low rumble of the V6. Also mentions Gavan changing gear at 4,500 etc. At the end of the piece, he says "The electricians want their car back."

I am not sure which car was used for the drive?

He was taken out in the “Electrical” car - not electric. It confused me too when I first read it……the one used was a car being used for electrical-component testing for the First Edition cars👍

[ramjet]

Thanks Stephen. That makes better sense. I thought I was going nuts.

[TomE]

We got to see and hear the brake car, but it wasn’t broken or being used for crash testing

Loads of confusing acronyms and shorthand gets used.  Fascinating to see glimpses of the development programme during our visit.  The brake development car was stuffed full of sensors and telemetry and data logging equipment, big GPS antenna on the roof, thermocouples on the surface and interior of the brake disks and embedded in the calipers and pads.  

[ramjet]

Wow. I didn't know what to expect, but that is interesting. A whole car devoted to just one function?

[KusaKusa]

Interesting that they're testing new paints right now.  I'd love if they made a dark green that looked like what was originally on the configurator for Dark Verdant:  dark but distinctly green, instead of mostly black with bright spots of green.

[TomE]

19 hours ago, ramjet said:

Wow. I didn't know what to expect, but that is interesting. A whole car devoted to just one function?

Yes, it's a huge programme and many different parts.  Development of the braking systems and components is a lot of work and has to cover all kinds of environments and scenarios, including very high speed work at places like Nardo and cold weather proving in the Arctic Circle.

As well as the development mules and prototypes, there are the cars needed to go through the proving and approval processes such as build validation, crash testing, emissions testing etc.  They'll build 90 cars just for validation and approval.  Those plus all the prototypes have to be crushed afterwards  

[ramjet]

Crushed and recycled or crushed and buried? I would have thought in this day and age, melting down certain metals for reuse, retrieving cable etc. 

[TomE]

I assume crushed and recycled.  They have to ensure they can't be sold to the public as running or restorable cars, as they are un-certified.  Apparently a few have "escaped into the wild" in the past from various companies so this is now the requirement.

[jep]

I'm researching the prototype and pre-production Elise S1. The factory don't hold records of any of these including road registered cars (that preceded the first customer car on 01 August 1996). 

Via books, photos, the Discovery Channel documentary, outside help and DVLA, I am piecing together a list of cars, nearly all most certainly destroyed. It isn't 90 cars thankfully......

It would be handy if the factory kept a record of all Emira including prototypes, to assist future anoraks. By no means a criticism, car companies have the present to worry about rather than the past and future.

Justin

 

[Nathan Pitman]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

Yes, it's a huge programme and many different parts.  Development of the braking systems and components is a lot of work and has to cover all kinds of environments and scenarios, including very high speed work at places like Nardo and cold weather proving in the Arctic Circle.

As well as the development mules and prototypes, there are the cars needed to go through the proving and approval processes such as build validation, crash testing, emissions testing etc.  They'll build 90 cars just for validation and approval.  Those plus all the prototypes have to be crushed afterwards  

Would be interesting to know at what point an evolution of one model becomes a new model that requires all this time consuming and costly validation work. Considering how closely related to the Evora the Emira is, I wonder if they ever considered an evolution (S3) instead of starting again, pretty sure they could have mapped the design of the Emira on to the Evora underpinnings and then upgraded the interior. The only thing I can think of that would have proved tricky is the change to the tub width.

[Porter]

21 hours ago, ramjet said:

Wow. I didn't know what to expect, but that is interesting. A whole car devoted to just one function?

This is very common during final engineering and tuning work. You typically see at least one (sometimes several) chassis dedicated for different component groups. There are also dedicated cars for extreme conditions testing. Each will get sensor componentry as appropriate to capture the data they need for their team decision process.

[Porter]

17 minutes ago, Nathan Pitman said:

Would be interesting to know at what point an evolution of one model becomes a new model that requires all this time consuming and costly validation work. Considering how closely related to the Evora the Emira is, I wonder if they ever considered an evolution (S3) instead of starting again, pretty sure they could have mapped the design of the Emira on to the Evora underpinnings and then upgraded the interior. The only thing I can think of that would have proved tricky is the change to the tub width.

I think that change is a strategic decision that's made very early. Engineers tend to be iterative. Designers love a clean sheet. Management sits in the middle and has to make a strategic decision on when to pull out the blank paper, because it's very expensive (particularly in human capital) to do that rather than iterate. When that time comes they develop a vision, establish goals for the project, and work with the broader team to decide what (if anything) to bring over onto the blank page as a starting point.

Clearly the Evora chassis architecture was still something with a lot of engineering overhead left in it, so why reinvent it when an iteration of the existing design is genuinely appropriate to meet the project goals? From what I understand most of the car was a clean sheet design, but I don't fault them at all for capitalizing on good, proven, and well-understood chassis technology that they developed in-house at great expense. Being smart about what works and what doesn't is part of what makes Lotus such a well respected engineering house.

[simonb]

I think there is also the issue that Evora was not a sales success, so a clean sheet really does seem the way to go

[gregs24]

14 hours ago, Porter said:

I think that change is a strategic decision that's made very early. Engineers tend to be iterative. Designers love a clean sheet. Management sits in the middle and has to make a strategic decision on when to pull out the blank paper, because it's very expensive (particularly in human capital) to do that rather than iterate. When that time comes they develop a vision, establish goals for the project, and work with the broader team to decide what (if anything) to bring over onto the blank page as a starting point.

Clearly the Evora chassis architecture was still something with a lot of engineering overhead left in it, so why reinvent it when an iteration of the existing design is genuinely appropriate to meet the project goals? From what I understand most of the car was a clean sheet design, but I don't fault them at all for capitalizing on good, proven, and well-understood chassis technology that they developed in-house at great expense. Being smart about what works and what doesn't is part of what makes Lotus such a well respected engineering house.

I'm sure this is the reasoning for retaining the V6 and gearboxes, at least initially as it is a known reliable quantity