AMG Emira

[Greg | ValetPro]

I was thinking because the i4 Engine has been around for a while that there are likely some performance upgrades. I sure this would void the warranty so would unlikely consider it for a good 12-24 months. But https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/mercedes/amg-a45/ for £500 ECU upgrade only the 360BPH can be increased to 400BPH.  Which seems very reasonable.

Is this a bad idea? Is it likely the ECU upgrade software is not compatible with Lotus version?

 

In fairness I do think the performance that has been talked about and my suspicion is going to be great.  The Mercedes  A45 360BPH does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds with a kerb weight of 1555kg.  So the Emira being 150kg less weight should see at least 4 seconds.    Which is quick enough for the road.  

 

Please share your thoughts.

[Bibs]

The warranty is 3 years, unlimited mileage FYI. 

I'd imagine Lotus will be using their own engine management which for the past 10 odd years has been encrypted so you'll need to do more than get it remapped, it'll probably need a new ECU. 

[Greg | ValetPro]

Oh ok.  Thats a shame.  Thanks Bibs

[Gashead1105]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

The warranty is 3 years, unlimited mileage FYI. 

I'd imagine Lotus will be using their own engine management which for the past 10 odd years has been encrypted so you'll need to do more than get it remapped, it'll probably need a new ECU. 

Do you know if Lotus are going to offer extended warranties after the initial 3 year period @Bibs? Appreciate it's early days but it's always been a little disappointing from an ownership perspective that nothing has been available on the current cars.

[Bibs]

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-approved-to-launch-on-april-12th-in-the-uk/

As they're now doing that, it would make sense to offer extended warranties for new car buyers too.

[TdM]

I'm always a bit suspicious about 0-62 these days. That's an AWD car with a DCT. +0.5s for AWD another 0.3 or so for gear change Vs a manual. That's how heavy modern cars are so 'fast' compared to their outputs and weight.

[C8RKH]

And of course you can "optimise" gear ratios just for the 0-62 time too - 1 change needed versus 2 etc

[bosshog]

All this talk of 360 vs 400 vs more bhp makes me smile somewhat. The difference between 360 and say 430 will just not be discernible on the public road at all.

Is the torque figures (and gear ratios) that matter and makes a car fell 'fast' on public roads acceleration wise. There's been zero talk of this. 

 

[Evotion]

Absolutely, and even more factors when you take cornering speed into account. However, we know sweet Fanny Adams about these and won't for months so we do need something to moan about

I have always maintained 416 HP is enough for the road.

 

[Barrykearley]

57 minutes ago, bosshog said:

All this talk of 360 vs 400 vs more bhp makes me smile somewhat. The difference between 360 and say 430 will just not be discernible on the public road at all.

Which makes the choice obvious based on cost alone 

[Denno]

If the i4 was the 421ps amg version I think I'd have put a deposit down, I'm in no rush so hopefully that will happen down the line. It's still not helping me think shall I just put deposit down anyway though!

[Evotion]

You can do this from day 1 with an ECU but it will bust the warranty. I have a suspicion they will keep the output low where it keeps to emissions regs.

Still, LOOK AT IT!!  Don't worry about the power

[duncx]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Which makes the choice obvious based on cost alone 

Nope, it's about the sound of the thing and a manual box

My 250 Cup is a truly fantastic car but it will NEVER have the aural drama of a V6 Exige/Emira

 

[Kal-El]

On 09/07/2021 at 09:12, Greg | ValetPro said:

I was thinking because the i4 Engine has been around for a while that there are likely some performance upgrades. I sure this would void the warranty so would unlikely consider it for a good 12-24 months. But https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/mercedes/amg-a45/ for £500 ECU upgrade only the 360BPH can be increased to 400BPH.  Which seems very reasonable.

Is this a bad idea? Is it likely the ECU upgrade software is not compatible with Lotus version?

 

In fairness I do think the performance that has been talked about and my suspicion is going to be great.  The Mercedes  A45 360BPH does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds with a kerb weight of 1555kg.  So the Emira being 150kg less weight should see at least 4 seconds.    Which is quick enough for the road.  

 

Please share your thoughts.

The Litchfield tune is for the older M133 engine. The Emira will have the new and totally awesome M139 engine. It’s a tuners dream. Twin scroll ball bearing turbo (large) with lightweight forged steel crank, forged aluminium pistons etc. The A45s version is making 421ps so it’s surprising Lotus have detuned it even more than the 382bhp base (non s version). I suspect this is to appease the v6 buyers and once they’ve run the old v6 out we’ll see more powerful AMG versions. The good news is that stage 1 remaps on the base engine are seeing 470bhp on 98Ron fuel.

A performance catted down pipe is seeing even more.

I’d love to know what the difference is between the s and non s version of the M139 engine other than boost/map.

maybe someone can elaborate?

 

[Yan]

Has anyone here driven an M139 engined car in lots of different scenarios?

Main question is - how laggy is it?

Reading the internets says there is a noticeable perception of lag. Its all over the Merc forums.

[DaveC72]

@KennyN - as the only person I know who has driven an A45 in anger, care to elaborate?

[KennyN]

My A45 was one of the original versions, which I think was 360bhp as standard.  I had it mapped to 420 which made it savage from a standing start using launch control.  It felt like all four wheels did a single revolution of slip as the weight transferred to the rear then it just hooked up and went.

I cannot recall the lag being annoying, although the DCT box was excellent, so this may have masked any lag issues by ensuring that the correct gear was selected for maximum progress.

The only issue I had was an occasional clunk when selecting reverse, it was a real mechanical clunk a bit like selecting 4x4 in an old Land Rover.  The dealer tried software updates and reset the box adaptation a few times, but it was never fully resolved.  It wouldn't do it every time, but it seemed to be more repeatable if the car had been in park rather than going from drive to reverse.  It was a known issue with stock cars too, so it didn't appear to be caused by upping the power level.

It will be interesting to see how Lotus tune the AMG engine, as it certainly has plenty of potential and with Lotus handling it should be a great combination.

 

[Evotion]

The AMG version is giving a lot of people good for thought.

In many ways it is the one to pick even at the same price. Quite an unusual situation to have this quandary for the same model of car at the same time.

For those who can afford both and have no massive preference for manual this is a nightmare.

The temptation of a 450hp + robust Emira is very convincing.

If tuning is totally closed off and this 8s confirmed this might actually put a lot of deposit holders off - me included.

However,  if Lotus work with a trusted partner who can supply tuned ECUs , albeit out of warranty, then Lotus cannot lose. They see more cars and wipe their hands off from the modified cars.

 

With a partner  offering a warranted 450ho with a titanium exhaust full system then id lap that up for 5k, maybe even 10k.

Alas, Lotus don't want the car eating v6 sales and there lies the rub.

Id seriously suggest driving both versions in the Autumn/fall as one may be surprised and pivot.

[duncx]

6 hours ago, Evotion said:

The temptation of a 450hp + robust Emira is very convincing.

This tuning potential (and more) is already in place for the V6, tried and tested in the Evora and Exige, ultra reliable (including the manual gearbox) and not too much money.

This is a path already very well trodden in the Lotus community, if tuning for power is your thing then you can still choose the V6 

[Porter]

The build process for the M139 is pretty epic to watch. I think it might be the engine to consider.

 

[Kal-El]

10 hours ago, KennyN said:

My A45 was one of the original versions, which I think was 360bhp as standard.  I had it mapped to 420 which made it savage from a standing start using launch control.  It felt like all four wheels did a single revolution of slip as the weight transferred to the rear then it just hooked up and went.

I cannot recall the lag being annoying, although the DCT box was excellent, so this may have masked any lag issues by ensuring that the correct gear was selected for maximum progress.

The only issue I had was an occasional clunk when selecting reverse, it was a real mechanical clunk a bit like selecting 4x4 in an old Land Rover.  The dealer tried software updates and reset the box adaptation a few times, but it was never fully resolved.  It wouldn't do it every time, but it seemed to be more repeatable if the car had been in park rather than going from drive to reverse.  It was a known issue with stock cars too, so it didn't appear to be caused by upping the power level.

It will be interesting to see how Lotus tune the AMG engine, as it certainly has plenty of potential and with Lotus handling it should be a great combination.

 

This A45 uses the previous M133 engine which is completely different. The new M139 engine’s ball bearing turbo design drastically reduces lag. Albeit a slightly larger turbo than the M133.

i wouldn’t worry too much as AMG are releasing a e-turbo version of the M139 engine which has an electronic motor connected to the compressor wheel shaft which spins it up at idle almost completely eliminating turbo lag. (F1 tech)

It’s heading this way so let’s hope Lotus adopt it. Can you imagine a 500bhp stage 2 M139 engine with e-turbo and 8 speed DCT?

no one will mention a manual v6 ever again!

[rallyesax]

Woww!! All this numbers thrown away and so many people who can't even drive properly and fast 200hp 🙄

Sorry but looking at all this 'big hp upgrades' posts makes me feel like I am on a Nissan tuning Forum..

[bosshog]

Get used to it. This little Lotus club is no more, the masses are arriving 😁

[Bravo73]

Nah, don’t worry. The Evora club will always be very small and exclusive.
 

Even ex-owners are welcome. Sometimes. 😜

[Porter]

Is that an air-to-water intercooler that I see? That makes packaging the cooling a little easier.