Drivers Pack and Suspension/Tyre Choices

[Gizmo750]

38 minutes ago, JimH said:

Pretty much what I said on this thread back on October 18th….. 😀

Sorry, should have checked back - fair point though isnt it

[Beady]

3 hours ago, Gizmo750 said:

Out of interest, how would people feel if the marketing department had chosen to call these options "Road" and "Track"? Would removing the perceived negative connotation of the arguably emotive "Touring" and "Sport" mean that people were more happy to choose the option that matched their usage?

agree this probably would make a difference in my personal selection.....but they didn't do that did they - they called it Sport (and its a sports car)

[EmiraSi]

19 hours ago, TomE said:

 It won't make a difference on resale price or ease of sale, at least on an FE where there's no cost difference and a rough 50/50 split of availability.

I agree with most of your post, at least in principle, as I've never been in or driven a lotus so have no basis for comment. But I do think that the suspension choice will make a difference on resale. The base car will come with suspension and as there's no mention of a choice of touring or sports on the base spec list, we have to assume it will be one those two as standard (unless they're going to introduce a "bog standard" for the base car?) and the other will come at a price.

While there are only FE's available then you might be able to say there's no difference in value (ignoring the UK populations obsession for all things "sporty" judging by the number of msports and s-lines driving around on rock hard suspension), but as soon as lotus attach a price to the non-standard option then, in my opinion, it will affect the desirability and/or price at resale. Similarly if the leather interior comes at a premium over the alcantara, or vice versa, that is also likely to have some affect on resale.

Just my 2p's worth.

[TomE]

You may be right and there may be a price premium later for Sports.  There are the same number and general type of components in each setup and from the same suppliers, so cost differences are likely to be small.  But Lotus may choose to price differently. It’s interesting that they haven’t on the FE.

I don’t think the Evora was ever offered with different Touring and Sports setups, suspension just varies between models.  There was a Track option with 2-way adjustable Ohlins at +£5k, which was clearly a different proposition.

On the Elise, Touring was standard and Sports dampers were an option at +£500.  I don’t know if that’s flowed through to a premium in the used market.

[Evotion]

21 hours ago, Gizmo750 said:

Out of interest, how would people feel if the marketing department had chosen to call these options "Road" and "Track"? Would removing the perceived negative connotation of the arguably emotive "Touring" and "Sport" mean that people were more happy to choose the option that matched their usage?

That would address the psychological aspect of it for sure but I still think it is more than that.

This is all just my opinion on how I see things and I am different as I rarely compromise on anything in life -it just doesn't sit with me right.  

I am not silly enough to believe that Touring is not the better solution for most new Lotus drivers and it may still be the best solution for me but I just cannot bring myself to get it. Even if I took both versions out back to back I doubt it would change my mind.

The silliest thing of all is that the 'average' car owner won't even look at their pressures until they get some warning notification or spot the tyre looking low on their driveway. Tyre pressure is even more critical on fast bike riding so is drummed into me. If people do not keep an eye on these, their choice of suspension may not matter.

The tyres have been made to fit the standard paraments of the Emira. Any venture outside of that compromises the set-up.

 

I have to laugh. I do kinda want to get Touring suspension but I just can't.

By the time all of the better YouTube drivers get to try one in anger, on closed roads, it will be too  late for us. If Lotus supplied 2 cars at Hethel which we can have for 1 hour each on road and track we would be much happier bunnies.

[Eagle7]

Chapman's chassis philosophy was soft springing with good damping.  He won several F1 world championships with that, and quickly established Lotus road cars as paragons of handling suppleness.  I tend to go with Gavan's assessment of Touring for street, and Sport for track.  I also think the names chosen were more for the general public than a genuine description of each chassis setup's capability.  I'm guessing it's more like Touring is Sport, and Sport is track.  It IS a sports car, and as Lotus themselves have said, the most accomplished Lotus they've ever built.  At no point is it not going to be track capable.

They wanted to reach out to a much larger base than the Lotus hardcore, so if the marketing names were Sport and Track, I can easily see how that would immediately move the public perception to it being a track car you can drive on the street, versus a road car you can drive on the track.  People looking for a road sports car would not consider it then, as they would assume it to be stiffly sprung and the ride to be track oriented.  I think they made the right naming choice for marketing and sales purposes.  The public's reaction with pre-orders is testimony enough to that.

The car is going to cost at least $100k in the U.S. just with sales tax, registration and such, so for that price I want what I want to experience, not what I think someone else will think.  The Touring setup sounds perfectly good for the street.  It was developed as a result of extensive road testing with the mule cars.  Gavan has driven both, so if he says Touring is the best for street, I have no reason not to believe him.  Since I'm not going to take my car to the track, and I'm not going to be pushing it on the street to track speeds and performance levels, the Touring suspension is the choice for me.

 

As a side question, what is a B road?

[Bibs]

Smaller roads.

In the UK, motorways are the 3/4 lane main routes between cities. A roads are the major single/dual carriageways and B roads are the small, fun, twisty roads where you can have some fun going around corners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_road_numbering_scheme

[TomE]

1 hour ago, Eagle7 said:

As a side question, what is a B road?

This kind of thing (filmed by Scott Walker on the roads around where I live):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zTHQfJQoM

[Bravo73]

44 minutes ago, TomE said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zTHQfJQoM

I’d not seen that vid before. Thanks. 

[Eagle7]

46 minutes ago, TomE said:

This kind of thing (filmed by Scott Walker on the roads around where I live):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zTHQfJQoM

You have such beautiful, picturesque countryside and roads there.  The choice of music for the first part with the Esprit was really enjoyable to watch and listen to.  By the time it morphed to the Evora, the music felt jarring and out of character.  So much of today's popular music seems so vulgar and crass by comparison.

Though it is a modern design, to my eye the Emira hearkens back to the beautiful, sleek forms of the British cars of yesteryear; especially the Jaguars of the 50's and early 60's, and of course Chapman's clean, elegant designs.  The Emira is going to fit right in with those beautiful B roads.

[TomE]

You can see the brief was about transformation, so I understand why they've switched the lighting, pace, editing style and music to emphasise the transition from Esprit to Evora.  I quite like it.  Despite watching this multiple times, my attention is mainly drawn to identifying which local road is in each shot!

I have zero creativity and even less technical competence with cameras and editing.  But it would be great to do something similar like this with my Emira, either with or without the Evora or Exige (or the bike!).  Something with a story or some emotion, rather than a vlog review - there will be loads of those.

Any budding creatives are welcome to pitch ideas to me via PM!

[Eagle7]

Well everyone has their own tastes of course, but for music I would go with something like Experience by Ludovico Einaudi.  It's a beautiful, modern instrumental piece that has a continuous flow with simple to grand moments that I think would be perfect for a video in scenery such as you have there.

[Evotion]

25 minutes ago, TomE said:

Something with a story or some emotion, rather than a vlog review - there will be loads of those.

Can do this on IoM. Plan out some drone and car camera work to get all angles and overlay with music and no talking. SImples.

39 minutes ago, Eagle7 said:

You have such beautiful, picturesque countryside and roads there.

... and perfect for maximising the dynamics and feel of the car with Sports suspension 😁

🙈

 

 

[TomE]

Yes, we'll have lots of opportunities to do some interesting locations and shoots over there, it'll be fun.  I'm keen to do something before then too, as I'll have one of the very early cars and I'm sure people will appreciate seeing footage of an Emira "in the wild" alongside all those YouTube vlog reviews.

Sports is slower over those roads, because what you can't see in the video is the terrible pot holes, ruts and bumps.  Those mean the stiffer Sports suspension skips and loses traction when you try and press on, whereas Touring maintains traction.  Touring FTW  

[Evotion]

Ah, but I will at least be enjoying the enhanced feel and dynamics in the Drivers version 😃

I plan to run the first car in by travelling to the Nurburgring. I hadn't though on company but would also be epic.

 

[Julian73]

On 08/11/2021 at 10:31, Evotion said:

 

Harry's Garage. He has been in FAR more cars than Gavin. If he was surprised how firm it was NOT then that speaks volumes. Okay it was on a track BUT he knows about these things instinctively - much more so than any of us.

 

Do you really think that Harry has been in FAR more cars than Gavin??

[Evotion]

Yes - and not even close. You do know Harry's background?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Farming. 😉

[Evotion]

Ha, spooky that Clarkson also has a big farming presence. Great programme.

[Bravo73]

Clarkson's farming came after he had made his money.

[C8RKH]

As did Harry's did it not?  (I might be wrong)

Edited November 17, 2021 by Bravo73

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

11 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

Clarkson's farming came after he had made his money.

Yes he wasn’t going to get rich on the £144 or whatever his farm earned him last year. As he admitted: thank goodness he had the Amazon film crew in tow to help keep the wolf from the door.

[Bibs]

He did spend £££ on machinery too. 

Anyway, about that Emira...

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

As did Harry's did it not?  (I might be wrong)

“Having failed his A-Level Maths and hence unable to get into Loughborough University to study automotive engineering, Metcalfe decided to study agriculture at Shuttleworth agricultural college, graduating in 1980 with an HND.

Deciding he wanted to become a farmer, he took a series of agricultural related jobs to build up his capital funds, whilst also farming on rented land to build his experience. On graduation he became a grain trader, whilst also raising sheep on rented land. Deciding that animals needed too much daily care, he has since focused on arable farming, initially renting land in the Harpenden area”

https://en.everybodywiki.com/Harry_Metcalfe

 

[C8RKH]

43 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Anyway, about that Emira...

Oooh, is that good on a farm too?  Emira Farmers Edition in Rapeseed Yellow, with rubber mats, and a seed dispenser