Emira Update from Lotus

[TomE]

47 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

To be honest, did anyone NOT expect these issues?  Come on, get real.

Great car. Great company. But issues will happen especially with new models.

So far the issues are way worse than expected, and worse than launch Evoras.  Despite the huge investment in a new factory and supposedly a focus on improving quality.

The new paint shop and robotic panel assembly and laser measurement rig are great.  But cars arriving at dealers have panels that need repainting and re-aligning.  Not only are they being built poorly, they are getting through QC and PDI.  That’s just the stuff that’s visible to the untrained eye, so what’s happening under the bodywork?

My dealer is only 20 mins away and is great.  But they can only work with what they’ve been sent.  Several handovers have had to be delayed while they rectify cars that are supposedly delivered ready for handover.

I know Lotus are acting quickly on reported issues and fixing customer cars.  But how long do you wait for initial build to improve?  My car was part-built many weeks ago and then sat waiting for missing parts.  It doesn’t inspire confidence. 

[C8RKH]

It sounds like the only difference right now, between Lotus and Lotus 2.0 is that old Lotus loved its passionate, loyal clientele who would forgive it many many things because it gave them affordable, great, drivers cars.  The Lotus 2.0 clientele will flock to the new shiny shiny in droves, but go back to Germany just as quickly when the quality is not there.

Could be great news for me in terms of getting a well sorted FE V6 at a bargain price in 12 month or so.   Magma red, tan trim, touring. That'll do nicely.

 

[ramjet]

5 hours ago, TomE said:

I'm definitely a maybe at the moment.

Customer service has been very poor, dealers have no influence any more, and worried about aftersales support.  Reports from dealers and several early customers of significant quality issues.  Two people I know have been left stranded with undriveable cars within a week of delivery, others have had their cars sat at dealers more than they've driven them, and 2-3 recall issues already.  I expected some teething problems, but this doesn't look good.

Not good news Tom.

Are any of these people prepared to say what has happened personally, or do we take you at your word? What are the reports from dealers? Have the recalls been publicised recalls via Lotus and for what issues?

I know personally that when my wife bought her Honda Accord Euro, now this is Honda not some tiny vehicle maker, drove around the corner and had pulled over as one of the electric windows would not wind up after being lowered. I suppose what I am saying is that things can happen to any car.

%wise, 1 out of thousands does not really relate to one in possibly just double digits though. How does QC pass these things or is QC not what we think it should be?

[rs200evo]

Well, just as a counter balance, I picked my car up from Hethel a few weeks ago,was an April 2021 depositor, drove it back to Scotland in sub zero temperatures and have been using it daily and not a single issue or concern to report. Love the car, it's everything I hoped it would be, and finally a Lotus that feels perfectly balanced in terms of usability, practicality and looks/performance. I know Lotus have been struggling with issues, but given everything they have faced, and the price point they have delivered at, I think they deserve some kudos overall. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by rs200evo

[simonb]

12 hours ago, TomE said:

So far the issues are way worse than expected, and worse than launch Evoras.  Despite the huge investment in a new factory and supposedly a focus on improving quality.

The new paint shop and robotic panel assembly and laser measurement rig are great.  But cars arriving at dealers have panels that need repainting and re-aligning.  Not only are they being built poorly, they are getting through QC and PDI.  That’s just the stuff that’s visible to the untrained eye, so what’s happening under the bodywork?

My dealer is only 20 mins away and is great.  But they can only work with what they’ve been sent.  Several handovers have had to be delayed while they rectify cars that are supposedly delivered ready for handover.

I know Lotus are acting quickly on reported issues and fixing customer cars.  But how long do you wait for initial build to improve?  My car was part-built many weeks ago and then sat waiting for missing parts.  It doesn’t inspire confidence. 

to me this is a real benefit to the less convenient, less imaginative "dealer handover"

dealers do know how to PDI

[New Emira]

For £80,000 we should all be offered a reasonable level of quality and reliability but early feedback is now casting some doubt over whether we are going to get it. All credit to the design and engineering team for creating a stunning car which I have driven on track and on the road. The current problems appear to be on the production line with either unreliable components or quality control/training which can in theory be resolved. I am down for a May build so will continue to monitor feedback from ongoing deliveries but will reluctantly cancel if things don’t improve.

 

[TomE]

19 hours ago, ramjet said:

Not good news Tom.

Are any of these people prepared to say what has happened personally, or do we take you at your word? What are the reports from dealers? Have the recalls been publicised recalls via Lotus and for what issues?

I know personally that when my wife bought her Honda Accord Euro, now this is Honda not some tiny vehicle maker, drove around the corner and had pulled over as one of the electric windows would not wind up after being lowered. I suppose what I am saying is that things can happen to any car.

%wise, 1 out of thousands does not really relate to one in possibly just double digits though. How does QC pass these things or is QC not what we think it should be?

I'll collate some specifics and links etc between Christmas and New Year.  Some of it has been published online and some has come from conversations with owners, dealers and Lotus staff.  There are only about 50 EU and 75 UK customer cars delivered so far, so it's only a small sample size at the moment but the number of reported problems seems higher than expected.

Lotus appear to have acted quickly in the case of the major failures, flying staff to Europe to investigate one issue that became a recall on an early batch of steering pumps.  And an engineer from Hethel drove to the South West yesterday to replace both seatbelts that had jammed on a 1-day old car (after initially saying they'd only fix it in January).  Yes there are other issues that are simply annoying, but these are car off the road problems.  I'm sure they'll get sorted in due course.

[Trevsked]

22 hours ago, TomE said:

So far the issues are way worse than expected, and worse than launch Evoras.  Despite the huge investment in a new factory and supposedly a focus on improving quality.

The new paint shop and robotic panel assembly and laser measurement rig are great.  But cars arriving at dealers have panels that need repainting and re-aligning.  Not only are they being built poorly, they are getting through QC and PDI.  That’s just the stuff that’s visible to the untrained eye, so what’s happening under the bodywork?

My dealer is only 20 mins away and is great.  But they can only work with what they’ve been sent.  Several handovers have had to be delayed while they rectify cars that are supposedly delivered ready for handover.

I know Lotus are acting quickly on reported issues and fixing customer cars.  But how long do you wait for initial build to improve?  My car was part-built many weeks ago and then sat waiting for missing parts.  It doesn’t inspire confidence. 

This is just another reason I cancelled, apart from the appalling customer care. I didn’t want a part finished car that was then gone back to with parts that arrived late. A recipe for poor assembly and rattles.

 

T.

[mdavies]

On 23/12/2022 at 17:52, TomE said:

Customer service has been very poor, dealers have no influence any more, and worried about aftersales support. 

I'm only watching how Lotus 2.0 is currently performing, in the context of potential future versions of the Emira - and perhaps other models.  However the quote above, from as trustworthy a source as it's possible to find on the forums on these matters IMO, does concern me greatly. Possibly fundamentally.

The first and last phrases reflect issues that, though serious, could hopefully be temporary and fairly short term.  However the central phrase, that "dealers [Agents, I think] have no influence any more", I see as solidly part of Lotus 2.0, and as something continuing indefinitely.

However far the number of faults in new cars is reduced and their overall quality improved, unacceptable issues are near certain to occur in some cases. The dealer used to be key in influencing "Lotus as was", and, in my experience, was able to be effective.

A future that might involve "Me v. Lotus 2.0" regarding some new car is one to be avoided I'm thinking.

Edited December 24, 2022 by mdavies

[ramjet]

Just to play devil’s advocate, no this is not a sponsored post and I am not an owner to be, maybe waiting to see what occurs would be a good thing? 
It is mostly the bad stories that get the most airplay. 
As @rs200evo says, his has been great. 
Maybe if we get qualitative numbers of issues, the perception may change.

I would suggest many are still dealing with a small carmaker.

 Many a new robotic line can have issues. trust me. 

[C8RKH]

@mdaviesyou only need to read many of the horror stories from Tesla owners when things go wrong to see that dealing directly with the manufacturer is often far from a satisfying experience.

Manufacturers rarely possess the talents or skills to deal with end customers and I subscribe to a similar view to yourself re a great dealer making all the difference to the ownership experience and to supporting customers during issues. Only time will tell if Lotus has/can get this right but right now the promised land seems some way off.

@ramjet I applaud your new found zeal for wanting to forgive Lotus everything but it's becoming like a sort of Lotuswash as you seem determined to rub out any form of negativity on here around the Emira/Lotus. No doubt you'll delete this post too!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

We had one of our weekly Teams Sales meetings the other day. Our MD, who reads up on Marketing reports, informed us that we are more than 5x more likely to pass on bad retail experiences to others than good ones. Hopefully this applies to the Emira and that there really is a very happy silent majority.

Nevertheless, it is worrying that all this investment in the latest QA technology is not finding faults before the car leaves Hethel. It might just be unwanted pressure from above to get cars out the door, in which case it’s pretty short-sighted if they just come straight back again from unhappy customers. If I was a deposit holder, I would definitely prefer dealer delivery, which puts the onus on them to resolve any issues with Lotus, rather than wasting my own time and energy with Lotus customer services.

[Evotion]

On 22/12/2022 at 08:14, ramjet said:

Where has @Evotion gone? Did he bail out?

Was all superkeen at getting one of each.

 Nono, I am here!!  Alive and well.

I did add a couple of videos recently - doing well. I have a couple more to do which might be somewhat interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/@WhichBike/search?query=emira

Yeah, had two deposits for a year. One V6 and one i4. Magma and Nimbus respectively.

With the first real delay and realising the i4 was likely a LONG way off, I got my deposit back.

The Magma should be arriving in January - has all the stuff apart from the final call.

It is then at GVE London getting a full PPF, ceramic everywhere and some "extra stuff". 👍

Been on the other forum more really.

[rs200evo]

I'm pretty certain all these 'reports' of problems are fuelled by classic self-confirmation bias on internet forums for/by those that sit on a fence. The Emira forum now has 10+ actual owners who have gone to the trouble of posting their experiences with their actual cars and it's nothing but positive 

(19) Lotus Emira Journals | Lotus Emira Forum

In contrast the forum dedicated to where owners can discuss their problems is a ghost town

(19) Lotus Emira Problems and Issues | Lotus Emira Forum

as well as Harry's pretty extensive coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by rs200evo

[ramjet]

I really liked the Emira from the day I saw it at the reveal in Hethel.

I believe it is going to be a success for Lotus. Lotus has teething troubles to get through with Customer Service etc, and I still admit to being puzzled as to why it seems to be such a mixed up affair, (incidentally, is Lotus CS a Hethel based group or an offshore practice?), but if Lotus don't keep evolving and staying within sight of the general public mindset as the world turns, there is a great possibility of just getting left behind.

Current Lotus owners are not a big enough group sector of the market to prop up a car company that is only going to turn out a car that 'those drivers' understand.

I'm not sure if I understand the way the dealer model is being set up now in the UK or why? I would presume that it is either to keep in line with other companies, or it is seen as the next way to get cars to customers as a lesser cost per unit. The answer to that though is more than likely somewhere in the middle. Until a firm goes a step too far, they don't know the point that they have to get back to for the whole thing to be viable, efficient and acceptable.

Author's Disclaimer:

I, quite possibly, am COMPLETELY wrong.

 

[Corsu]

Some European dealerships have received cars with storm doors that are not assembled correctly to the door, they fall off when opening the door. This demonstrates a serious assembly problem, there is nothing unacceptable but it will surely be necessary to review something in the assembly process. I have also heard of electronic problems with sensor problems. In a few months these problems should be corrected, in the meantime, these cars go back to the factory.

[ramjet]

Storm doors? What are they?

[Corsu]

May be the right english word is "Door Trim"

[ramjet]

Ok. Door trim is a better choice of words. I do though, find this a bit hard to believe that it would get past quality control like that? The sensor issues as well seem odd. Every car would go through a systems check before release. Maybe these are transit issues and not Lotus issues?

[rs200evo]

1 hour ago, Corsu said:

Some European dealerships have received cars with storm doors that are not assembled correctly to the door, they fall off when opening the door. This demonstrates a serious assembly problem, there is nothing unacceptable but it will surely be necessary to review something in the assembly process. I have also heard of electronic problems with sensor problems. In a few months these problems should be corrected, in the meantime, these cars go back to the factory.

I think a 'serious assembly problem' would be more prevalent and not limited to European cars? 

Edited December 26, 2022 by rs200evo

[exeterjeep]

On 22/12/2022 at 09:10, exeterjeep said:

one via  Silverstone - not seen updates recently

See on Facebook - posted today by Lotus Silverstone, Karl has not got his blue Emira.

[Peeltone]

Got an email this afternoon and they are still holding Feb for build so same timeframe as the last one I got I was expecting a bounce out.  

[New Emira]

I was May now June

[CocoPops]

I was delivery July 2023 (i4), now august production…

slipping and slipping.

[Graham Ridgway]

I got the July now August one for i4.  Although it just said August.  They've obviously got bored with telling people there is a delay!