Evora Window Regulator Repair

[Spinney]

Following on from my weekend thread about my drivers door window not closing properly against the top seal, I dropped in to Bell & Colvill this morning for a diagnosis. As feared/expected it's been diagnosed as the dreaded window regulator going bad and that'll be a cool £730, including fitting, to you sir!

This is quite clearly a not unusual problem on the Evora and, in fact, I already had one replaced on the same window, with the same fault when the car was only about 4 months old but at least that was covered under warranty. So, what is causing this common issue? Is it poor location that is allowing the elements to corrode electrics? Is it poor design that just isn't up to the job being asked of it? Is it Italian designed electronics manufactured by Alfa-Romeo? (ok that last one is tongue in cheek). Nevertheless, there obviously is a problem here judging by how often it's mentioned in the forums, on a car where there are relatively few examples on the roads. I have heard water ingress might be an issue but to be honest, my own car very rarely sees any rain so I'm doubtful that is my particular problem.

I am thinking that when my old regulator is removed from the car, I will ask B & C to let me have it back so I can, hopefully, try and have diagnosed what is causing the issue. If it is an electronic issue then it surely must be repairable by somebody with the right skills. That won't be me as whilst I'm ok with oily bits, I'm afraid electronics are a dark art where I'm concerned, although I do have a mate who knows what he is doing with those magic electrons, so might at least be able to give me a pointer. I won't be surprised, of course, if any electronic components are factory sealed and will be utterly destroyed by opening but I figure it's worth a try.

I suspect the problem might just come down to inferior/cheap component quality chosen by Lotus, in which case there may not be much I can do. However it surely can't be beyond the wit of man to find suitable replacement parts of a greatly improved quality. My wife's car, for example, is a 14 year old Mercedes SLK which employs a similar action to the Evora in that the window drops an inch or so when opening the door and then raises automatically against the seals when it's closed and I don't ever recall reading about similar problems with those cars.

I am going ahead with getting mine replaced but what I would like to achieve is to try and figure out how it fails and then find a way of repairing my existing one so the knowledge can be added to the forum for future use.

Any ideas or suggestions of what causes this problem is gratefully received.

Just to add to this, De Roure currently have 10 regulators in stock, in case anybody is after one.

[Gareth44]

You may already know, hence your comment, but I seem to remember when mine went, I was told it was indeed an Italian part.

I was told mine was water ingress related and think it was about £500 but can't remember if that was just the part or part and fitting.

[agentdr8]

The regulators are made by an Italian company called Nuova SME (now owned by Cebi Motors). My theory after I had one fail is the external sealing epoxy they use gets brittle over time, which then allows moisture to ingress into the electronics. 

Unfortunately I have not been able to find another vehicle that shares these specific regulator part #s, so Lotus likely had them configured for their Evora applications. 

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, agentdr8 said:

Unfortunately I have not been able to find another vehicle that shares these specific regulator part #s, so Lotus likely had them configured for their Evora applications. 

Have you got the part number for the regulator?

This nugget from @JAWS might help you in your search (or non search): “For future reference a Lotus 6000 series part number means it is a proprietary part.”

[agentdr8]

Lotus doesn't offer the regulator module separately from the lift mechanism/frame. That part # is C132B4051F for LHS, Series 1. 

The regulator module itself has OEM labels on it, which likely indicate the differences between applications, but unfortunately the one from my Lotus unit fell off or disintegrated. See attached photo; the regulator on the left is the Lotus, the one on the right is for a Seat Ibiza MK2/MK3.

[Spinney]

They do look pretty similar don't they, thanks for posting it. Hopefully the label will still be on mine so I can see the part number. 

[agentdr8]

Yes, unfortunately the pinouts are different, and/or the functionality of the PIC16 is different. I had disassembled both, but did not have a chance to diagram out which was which. 

[Spinney]

I don’t yet know what the regulator internals look like, but do you think there is any possibility the electronic components themselves can be individually checked and replaced as necessary?

[agentdr8]

Here is a picture of the "brains" of the regulator module from the Seat Ibiza; the info on the sticker match the "lotto" number on the external label, so that is likely how they tell these components apart. 

There's not really much to it, aside from the PIC16 and the accompanying resistors, transistors, and caps. I suppose you could go over the PCB and test each component if it's a hardware-related failure. 

[Spinney]

Oh wow that’s waaaaay beyond my pay grade. Definitely looks like a job for my electronics wizard pal. 

Can you see any evidence at all that moisture ingress could be the culprit? If so, I guess one needs to ask the question what is different about how this component is mounted on the Evora door, compared to the SEAT or similar. 

[agentdr8]

To be honest, I don't recall seeing any indications of corrosion in the Lotus regulator, but it doesn't usually take much to make components go bad. I think the only thing that stood out to me was the thin epoxy coating, which appeared to be missing in some areas when I removed the screws/covers. And the fact that mine started acting up after a thorough soaking (hours of constant downpour), and that the problem went away after a week of dry days.

It could very well be something else that's being affected by the moisture in the door, but the connector faces downward, so the only other thing it could be is the wiring harness. I would think that if it's the harness, the problem would present itself with every regulator after a solid rain, and that doesn't appear to be the case (haven't had a reoccurrence since replacing mine, with plenty of rain inbetween). 

[EvoraBob]

23 hours ago, agentdr8 said:

Lotus doesn't offer the regulator module separately from the lift mechanism/frame. That part # is C132B4051F for LHS, Series 1. 

The regulator module itself has OEM labels on it, which likely indicate the differences between applications, but unfortunately the one from my Lotus unit fell off or disintegrated. See attached photo; the regulator on the left is the Lotus, the one on the right is for a Seat Ibiza MK2/MK3.

When I entered  454520002 in google a list of VW cars listed reference the window LHS regulator as your photo 

[agentdr8]

That number appears to be the for the motor component of the regulator, which is common across a lot of different variants. It's also on the Seat Ibiza one too. 

[steamdriven]

This is a great thread about what seems to be a very common and certainly frustrating problem.

I have yet to tackle the issue on my MY10 LE Evora and have lived with the problem of no ‘auto window drop’ on the driver side for some time. I’ve therefore been watching the relevant threads with interest, and would welcome comment from anyone ‘in the know’.

In a bid to pull some the issues together into this single thread - is it not the case that the ‘window drop’ function is also linked to a microswitch in the door latch which can fail ( water ingress and/ or mechanical damage) and which was the subject of a recall on earlier cars ?  

 

[2011 Chrome Orange]

Yes, it can be tied to the door latch microswitch. However, you can generally tell that from the lack of door ajar image in the dash when you open the door (or the image is always on when the door is closed).

[Spinney]

Yesterday I spoke to a guy in a company that normally specialises in diagnostics and repairs to engine ECU's. I explained the problem to him and was told they have carried out repairs to similar automotive electronic components before, though not specifically to a window regulator, but he wasn't at all fazed and said if it is simply a fault in the PCB or electronic components therein, they should be able to diagnose and repair as all automotive electronics are, in his words, very logical and quite easy to understand. That's obviously easy for him to say as the entire subject of modern electronics is other worldly to me!

He has suggested a fault find, repair and testing would probably cost in the region of £100-130 but would obviously need to see it first. He did actually sound very confident they can handle it so I guess somebody would need to risk up to £130 to see if they can. Of course you won't then know for sure until the regulator is fitted back in the car and fully tested. I'm tempted once the regulator is off my car and at least I can maybe keep it as a spare, unless anybody has one that's failed and is up for giving it a go?

If it all works out, it's a considerable saving over the cost of a new replacement and it does seem a real shame to get rid of the complete regulator and motor assembly just for the sake of a (possibly) fubared component costing pennies on the PCB.

I'll need to give this some thought. 

[steamdriven]

Good work @Spinney I’d certainly be up for exploring a repair on my regulator when I pull it out this winter. If it turns out to be a relatively simple - and common- PCB board or component failure, then there must be a lot of regulators out there in garages and workshops that could be reconditioned rather than simply trashed.

[Spinney]

 

Ok so I had the window regulator replaced at Bell & Colvill during the week and asked them to place the faulty one in the boot. Today I got around to looking at the old one, as you can see in the pic below. Not surprisingly it isn't obvious, just from looking at it, what has caused it to fail but I can make a couple of observations. Firstly, the rubber seal under the metal cap, which is the primary protection from water damage, is misaligned as you can see and would, I am sure, allow the ingress of moisture/dust. Secondly, although the PCB is coated in a lacquer like material which, presumably, is the secondary protection against moisture damage, they appear to have missed a bit about the size of my small finger nail on the lower L shaped section. Interestingly, the uncoated piece sits right under the misaligned rubber seal and when you lift it, you can see some water corrosion around the soldered connections, so I think it reasonable to assume that could be where the problem lies.

Trying to repair and test this component is way above my pay grade so I am seriously considering talking again to the guy from the ECU repair company to ask if he can test it and see if there are any obvious problems that can be easily fixed. There are no locating pegs, or similar, under the rubber seal, which appears to me to be a design shortcoming, so I guess there will always be a chance the person assembling it can do so with it misaligned. I imagine the lacquer coating is simply a 'belt and braces' backup in case of the rubber seal failing but, of course, if that isn't even coating all the components on the PCB, then you can easily see how the regulator might fail. 

Unfortunately, this just seems to be a case of shoddy assembly work which has allowed the ingress of moisture, a not uncommon issue in Italian manufactured parts I'm afraid. I just hope for their sake they don't make submarines! 

 

[Bibs]

TLF would be happy to fund the investigation/repair if it'll help

[Spinney]

A generous offer Bibs and might be worth pursuing to help other since this does seem to be a fairly common issue. 

[Bibs]

@Spinney, any luck matey?

 

[Spinney]

To be honest I’ve not had a chance to give it more thought yet and the poor car has just been sat in my garage without moving since the reg was replaced.

I’m in Marrakesh at the moment (very probably the maddest place on this planet) so will start to look at it in the next couple of weeks. Thanks for the reminder. 🙏

[Bibs]

No rush, enjoy your trip and the sunhine

 

[cor]

my window regulator does not open a bit when i open the door.

Should be some micro switch inside, anybody had a go at repairing this without buying the complete system?

Anybody looked at which motor lotus uses?

 

Thanks!

[DH2]

Has the battery been disconnected or flat?  If so, have you done the reset proecdure?  (lower window and hold button for few seconds, raise window and hold button for few seconds)

Might be worth taking the battery off for a short while and trying this, if you haven't already.

After that, I thought there was a thread on the forum recently where someone was going to have a go at DIY repair?

Dave