Gordon Murray T.50 supercar

[au-yt]

I'll start this off with the Harry's Garage video. enjoy

 

[TdM]

You can't follow that. It's a brilliant video and everyone should spend the time to watch it.

[stephenwhyte]

Great video - I’m not convinced about the looks of the car though. Front isn’t right.....lights specifically and rear too narrow. He’s done well to get it to this stage though. Should have tied up with Stevens for the styling.

[Dan E]

I have to agree and that fan looks ridiculous, but engineering is brilliant does show how right they got the Evija though, if they could shoe horn in that V12 in that then 😍.

excellent video though 

[C8RKH]

I really love it. Just listening to him talk about what he likes and dislikes really resonates.  It should appeal to Lotus owners too as basically I would argue Lotus has followed a very similar design philosophy with no gimmicks. It's why the Evora S1 from 10 years still looks so good and fresh. Compare it to Audi's, BMW's, Merc etc of the same time and there "fashion" styling has well, errr, gone out of fashion!

I could listen to Gordon Murray all day. His encyclopedic knowledge of every nut and bolt on the car, every item, just incredible. No flash. No chav. Just brilliant form and practical application.

The fan is the only contentious bit but we'll have to wait and see how that ages. I think this is a real classic. I mean, when you get the shots back to the F1 then even now, what, 30 years later, it still just looks OMG drop dead gorgeous.

Loved the video. Thanks @au-yt for sharing.

[au-yt]

I must admit the first thought I had of the front intake was the original Tesla Roadster.

If the front intakes are painted it will change the look and dark colours will hide some of the quirks.

However given its all designed by Gordon and his team and no marketing or as seems accountants and to have sold 2/3rd of production at 2.3milUKP prior to release is more about engineering than looks.

[au-yt]

3 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I really love it. Just listening to him talk about what he likes and dislikes really resonates.  It should appeal to Lotus owners too as basically I would argue Lotus has followed a very similar design philosophy with no gimmicks. It's why the Evora S1 from 10 years still looks so good and fresh. Compare it to Audi's, BMW's, Merc etc of the same time and there "fashion" styling has well, errr, gone out of fashion!

I could listen to Gordon Murray all day. His encyclopedic knowledge of every nut and bolt on the car, every item, just incredible. No flash. No chav. Just brilliant form and practical application.

The fan is the only contentious bit but we'll have to wait and see how that ages. I think this is a real classic. I mean, when you get the shots back to the F1 then even now, what, 30 years later, it still just looks OMG drop dead gorgeous.

Loved the video. Thanks @au-yt for sharing.

I did have a smile watch the video( best of them so far) his passionate comments about the engineering, as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, the use of a starter Gen bought back memories.

And the size of the T-50 is the same as the Evora to a mm except height.

[red vtec]

Watched it this morning and the carfection video. The difference with Murray is he understands every bit of the car from the powertrain to the controls. He is not a PR guy selling it or a manager just overseeing a launch, he is an engineer in the mold of Chapman. It says something when he says some of the F1 bits were not correct!

[au-yt]

 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Amazing creation. 6 speed Manual and mid-engined NA V12 is perfect. Quite a few F1 styling similarities, BUT it doesn’t look nearly as good as I had hoped. In that respect, at least, the Evija is way ahead.

[electro_boy]

I echo all the comments above, great video interesting view and I like the way he thinks.   I'm not totally sold on the styling but I understand what he is trying to do regarding a design that still works 10 years from now.  He really does have a "Lotus" way of thinking and a lot if not all of what he was saying agrees with my opinions too.   There are some incredibly competent cars available to buy today but very few give you that fizzy feeling inside like a Lotus does.

Also the line about getting out the car after a drive and looking back at the car ....   After 2 years of Evora ownership I still do that! 😍

Oh and yes, that engine in an Evija .... would be truly amazing, I think the world would stop moving.

Edited August 5, 2020 by electro_boy

[Bravo73]

7 hours ago, red vtec said:

...and the carfection video.

 

33 minutes ago, electro_boy said:

He really does have a "Lotus" way of thinking and a lot if not all of what he was saying agrees with my opinions too.

Have a listen to this and it will explain why:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/us-lot-sessions/id1505237625?i=1000474319954

[Mysterae]

Excellent video, I totally nerd'ed out on that. Sometimes, just sometimes I wanted Harry to STFU and let the man speak :). 

I wonder why they put the gear stick on the right rather than the left; perhaps it's configurable to the person paying £2.3m for it or aiming firmly at the foreign market. Also no mention of gold leaf in the engine bay :).

I still prefer the Evija though.

[NedaSay]

For some reason the lines of the car leave me cold, if they were to be compared the Evija would win the contest on that point. The car is still a thing of beauty, the interior looks like an amazing cockpit and the engine... Can Cosworth derive a V6 from that? It looks bonkers, it's good to see an old fashion engine with cutting edge tech.

another 2.3m +tx of unobtainium but what a tribute to a car and a man by the man himself.

Edited August 5, 2020 by NedaSay

[TdM]

I think the headlights remind me of a MK3 MR2. The other design issue is a high waistline on the doors due to the cutout beneath it making it look higher and wider than it is. Combined with a bit of a subtle apologetic nose design it ends up looking a little like a manatee.

However, it's not bad looking and it's an engineering masterpiece.

[rallyesax]

@Mysterae for the gold. They talk about it in the Carfection video. Gordon says that during the incoming testing program, if any hot-spots are to be located that can't be fixed with 'more common' materials, then it will be gold as it remains the best heat shield. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

1 hour ago, TdM said:

I think the headlights remind me of a MK3 MR2. The other design issue is a high waistline on the doors due to the cutout beneath it making it look higher and wider than it is. Combined with a bit of a subtle apologetic nose design it ends up looking a little like a manatee.

However, it's not bad looking and it's an engineering masterpiece.

I agree 100%. I also think the rear aspect makes it look ungainly: too high for the width. As for not having proper door windows? 25 years on from the F1, I am pretty sure they could have found a solution to that conundrum. Who has actually been credited with the styling? To be honest it’s a relatively generic Supercar shape, which seems to have been bent over the kitchen table and had what looks like a jet engine exhaust unceremoniously shoved up its arse.

[C8RKH]

Love all the design suggestions from the armchair designers pointing out what a master has done wrong. I bet Monet suffered from the same when he was in the park painting his water lilies, lots of other lesser artists telling him his work was pointless....  

[Bravo73]

FWIW, Murray isn’t a designer. He’s an engineer. 

[jep]

Lord Murray of Gordon sold his F1 (XP3) as the value and ensuing insurance costs spoilt his enjoyment. 

Full kudos to him. He understands a car is to be used and enjoyed as a driving machine, hence incorporating luggage space.

Be thankful, Lotus owners. We have access to focussed yet practical cars that are, in reality, usable and affordable. The F1, T.50, 600LT, Enzo etc...etc...may be on the margins better than any Lotus but we get a major dollop of what makes the top-end lightweight sports cars so special without the angst of owning a precious pearl. 

Justin 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Bravo73 said:

FWIW, Murray isn’t a designer. He’s an engineer. 

Fair point, but he's still a better designer than most and his key messaging around "packaging" and not wasting space on frivolity/fads is I think what sets his cars apart.

To your point though, I've seen many houses designed by a designer (architect) but I'd probably prefer to live in one created by an engineer as it would just work better.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Sounds like you want to live in an Airey house, designed post WWII by engineer Sir Edwin Airey.

[red vtec]

2 hours ago, jep said:

Lord Murray of Gordon sold his F1 (XP3) as the value and ensuing insurance costs spoilt his enjoyment. 

Full kudos to him. He understands a car is to be used and enjoyed as a driving machine, hence incorporating luggage space.

Be thankful, Lotus owners. We have access to focussed yet practical cars that are, in reality, usable and affordable. The F1, T.50, 600LT, Enzo etc...etc...may be on the margins better than any Lotus but we get a major dollop of what makes the top-end lightweight sports cars so special without the angst of owning a precious pearl. 

Justin 

Got a pic of K50 BAT when he still owned it , just parked up in a field at Goodwood with loads of normal stuff. It was good to see it was used as a car rather than a garage queen. 

[TdM]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Fair point, but he's still a better designer than most and his key messaging around "packaging" and not wasting space on frivolity/fads is I think what sets his cars apart.

To your point though, I've seen many houses designed by a designer (architect) but I'd probably prefer to live in one created by an engineer as it would just work better.

I would certainly argue it's no Monet but beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Regardless, your point is sound that all the elements are there for an engineering reason and I wouldn't argue against that. It just isn't the most beautiful car in the world and I think it's valid to point out why we think that is.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Sounds like you want to live in an Airey house, designed post WWII by engineer Sir Edwin Airey.

And look, probably 30 years+ over their life expectancy they are still standing, whereas the shite that gets built these days struggles to stay in one piece for the NHBC 10 year warranty period (which is usually pretty worthless too!).

So, form or function? Quality or design. Up to you to choose what you think is best for you. Me, If I had the cash I'd buy the Murray car over anything else for the money. Get it in Fire Red with gold accents to set off the headlight cooling fins and be a pretty hamper camper. Anyone with the skills (I don't) please feel free to photo shop it into Fire Red for me.   TIA.

 

Also @bravo73 I can find the Gordon Murray Design website, listings referring to him as a British car designer, but nothing re Gordon Murray Engineering website.  So, either way, design is a significant strength of his.