Drivers Pack and Suspension/Tyre Choices

[KJD]

“Your comments are unhelpful”, the most condescending phrase ever used in a debate.

Ade is expressing his opinion Tom, a little forcefully perhaps, but he is entitled to do so.

None of us will know where Lotus have pitched the tour/sport balance until we drive each iteration.

Until then we are all guessing which will suit each of us individually.

Gavan is undoubtedly a much better driver than me, but he is not me.

My point was that button-adjustable damping would potentially please everyone.

12 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

If you really want it, I imagine that you will be able to fit Ohlins & the Mechatronics kit to your Emira. 

(It’s not adaptive damping, btw). 

I know that. Neither is PASM. 

If Lotus are chasing the Porsche market, it’s maybe something to consider.

[TomE]

30 minutes ago, KJD said:

“Your comments are unhelpful”, the most condescending phrase ever used in a debate.

Ade is expressing his opinion Tom, a little forcefully perhaps, but he is entitled to do so.

None of us will know where Lotus have pitched the tour/sport balance until we drive each iteration.

Until then we are all guessing which will suit each of us individually.

Gavan is undoubtedly a much better driver than me, but he is not me.

My point was that button-adjustable damping would potentially please everyone.

I know that. Neither is PASM. 

If Lotus are chasing the Porsche market, it’s maybe something to consider.

 

5 hours ago, Evotion said:

I have said it before and I will say it again...  take it as you will but:

If you do NOT get the Sports set-up you will regret it.

The only decision is then then go with Cups as you will be track or dry weather only and know how to warm them up or the Goodyears - which is my choice as the compromise.

The sports suspension is not as firm as you will think.

What is the point of Touring suspension? Get a different car. This is a Lotus.👌

 

Sorry if that's your interpretation.  I do feel strongly that someone saying in bold capitals to only choose one of two options, with no context and no substantiation, is being unhelpful and I'll stand by that comment.  I'm disagreeing with what's been posted.  Others can agree or disagree too.  I'm not name calling or telling him he can't express an opinion, I'm saying what he's posted is unhelpful to others.

There are people coming to these pages who have not had a chance to read all the write-ups and discussions or speak to Lotus staff at a roadshow.  Much has been written on this topic and the answer is "it depends".  So saying Sports good and Touring bad won't help those people.

We have had a reasonable indication from Lotus on how they have pitched each setup and they have given comparisons to current cars to help people decide.  Experienced Lotus staff have also spent a lot of time with many Goodwood and roadshow visitors, listening to them talking about their car usage, typical roads, driving styles and preferences and then giving individual advice on what they think will suit people.  So whilst we are having to make decisions without driving each setup, it's not a completely blind guess.  I'm a fan of informed choice, not blanket statements.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Evotion can specify Sport suspension on one of his Emiras and Touring on the other, so he can’t lose!

[Evotion]

Nah, both will be Sports and Goodyears.  I can't explain how strongly I feel about this.

Tom does have a point in that some people may read that as an undisputable fact.

Most on here who read the forums will know how to make their own mind up and for those who are new to the forum - I stand by my statement. In which case it is helpful as either they don't know the difference and they should default to Sports or they can see my post as a foil to the majority saying to go for Touring.

If one is as convinced to go for Touring as I am for Sports then fine, of course.

[TomE]

Can you explain why you think Sport should be the default choice for people who don’t know the difference?

In what circumstances would you suggest people choose Touring?

[DarrylV8]

For my two pence, touring if you don’t intend to regularly track and Goodyear’s if you want to drive all weathers. If you’re going to regularly track and not use in heavy rain use Sports and Cup 2, if you are going to use in winter then put Michelin PA4 on.

 

[Bravo73]

10 hours ago, KJD said:

If Lotus are chasing the Porsche market, it’s maybe something to consider.

I imagine that it was. And probably discounted on the Emira due to cost, weight, complexity and time to develop. 

However, for the next generation of cars (‘blank sheet designs’), I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it is a feature. 

[bosshog]

Having had both Evora S and an Evora 410 sport I wonder if:

Touring = NA/S setup

Touring = 400

Sport = 400

Sport = 410 

 

 

Having driven all those there are all quite different.

Personally I think they will go with NA/S for touring and 410 for sport. But it just a guess.

 

I’d be happy with either. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. However I’ll be ordering the touring for my needs. 
 

not saying they will be the exact same geo etc, but broadly speaking in terms of feel

Edited November 5, 2021 by bosshog

[Whitey]

I've also opted for Touring and Goodyears. I have had my 2010 NA for 10 years and 37k miles and its superbly sure footed and comfy at the same time on some very poor road surfaces. It doesnt roll that much at all and as I only do the odd track day, my bias is towards road usage. Another thing to remember that Evoras are on 20/19 or 19/18 wheels (mines the latter) and Emira will be 20/20 so that will actually lead to a firmer ride in itself. When pushing on hard in the car through mid Wales etc, I have never once thought that the car needs to be any stiffer at all and I am completely confident that the Touring spec Emira will be superb.

If I was doing lots of trackdays and driving on super smooth  roads, then that is the only time I would go with the Sports set up.

 

 

 

 

 

[KJD]

This might help with the guessing.

Or add some more pointless speculation. 😁

[ramjet]

Does anyone happen to know what the launch Emira had that Jenson was driving?

If I was getting an Emira, I would opt for the touring suspension as 90% of the time, it would just be for driving around. It would probably never see a track and would just get thrown about some roads that the fun police patrol so risky all the time.

Other than Sandown in Melbourne, I don't know of any other track really in Victoria?

[TomE]

1 hour ago, KJD said:

This might help with the guessing.

Or add some more pointless speculation. 😁

Thanks, that helps make this more specific.  Lotus have already said the Emira Touring suspension is equivalent to the Series 1 Evora S suspension (so that's ERSL/ELSR in your pic) and Sports is equivalent to the GT410 or US GT (VRSL/VRSR).

So, if you want to do a test drive you can compare an Evora S and an Evora GT410.

[Wake]

I couldn’t go the Silverstone event but my old man went in my place. One of the things I asked him to enquire about was the suspension options and which setup was more like the Evora 400 (a car I had set my sights on before the Emira was announced).  
 

He was told (by I think Gavin) that the touring is very close/similar to the Evora 400 setup and the sports suspension is closer to the 410 setup. 
 

I don’t know if this helps anyone in their decision making (it did for me, until I saw Harry’s video!) 

[Techyd]

I spent a day (6 hours I suppose, with a few breaks) driving a 410 Sport before I purchased my S, and by the end of the day, I was definitely done with the ride; it was just too much for me on the roads around where I live, which really are not good.  It had the carbon bucket seats too so I was acutely aware of every surface rebound.  The performance was completely surefooted and sublime.  The S that I ended up purchasing however was just that much more comfortable for touring / fast road use and weighing to price between the two it was a bit of a no-brainer really!

Later that year, though, I drove around Hethel in a 410 Sport but with the Sparco seats and didn't have a problem at all - in fact I was surprised how notably softer it was than the Exige's I was also driving that day.

So for me, it would have the touring suspension 🙂 

[bosshog]

11 hours ago, ramjet said:

Does anyone happen to know what the launch Emira had that Jenson was driving?

 

Sport. Harry said in the video

[Evotion]

I think I had better give my reasons for my statement on the Sports suspension!

Let's have a recap which shows I am right and wrong!

"The car has two defined chassis and suspension settings. Tour is tuned for everyday road use, delivering the optimum blend of Lotus dynamic performance and handling with a more comfortable ride. Sports is available with the optional Lotus Drivers Pack and provides a slightly stiffer suspension set-up for enhanced dynamic capability and feel. Lotus Engineering departments have worked with both Michelin and Goodyear to develop 2 new tyre concepts that are larger than those of Evora and bespoke for the Lotus Emira. Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport tyres enhance all weather usability and ride quality without compromising driving feedback whilst the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres achieve extreme track performance without compromising comfort."

Ok - not in doubt. Tour is tuned for everyday road use, delivering the optimum blend of Lotus dynamic performance and handling with a more comfortable ride.  IF your priority over everything else the Lotus offers, or might offer, is comfort then Touring is absolutely the way to go. Of course, it might well be the best set-up for even my intentions on the course of an average journey but it is still not that simple.

"Sports is available with the optional Lotus Drivers Pack and provides a slightly stiffer suspension set-up for enhanced dynamic capability and feel."

Firstly, notice the word 'slightly'.

"Set-up for enhanced driving capability and feel"

This was the decider for me. Let's flip that around.

Lotus: Okay, so you want an Emira. Would you like me to remove some dynamic capability and feel for you"

Customer: Hey? Nah, of course not, Why would I want that? This is a Lotus right?

"The two settings are "noticeably different", says Kershaw, with Tour set up for the wheel inputs experienced on a B-road; too much spring rate there just wouldn't work. "A Lotus shouldn't feel turbulent, it should just ride the bumps." Whereas Sport, designed for a track where even kerbs shouldn't disturb a car in the same way, can afford to be more aggressive. "We can put some spring rate in", says Kershaw, "but mainly we still try and control it in the damper valving, get hold of the wheel early."

Okay, ha. Here it is more noticeable all of a sudden and will ride bumps better. One for Touring.

Or - is Gavin a paid employee of Lotus who's #1 target is the more comfy rivals?

""The first interesting discussion point is around the Emira's suspension; both Tour and Sport are passive set ups, the latter introducing new springs, altered geometry and different damper valving."

Hold on.. the Sports package is more advanced? Actual new stuff!  Count me in.

Lotus: Okay, next, would you like the old suspension set-up or the new bespoke one made for the Emira with new springs, altered geometry and different damper valving?"

Customer: Oh, the new set-up of course.

Other pointers.

It is a heavier car. It will be less 'put off' by bumps.

Use. It is a scalpel of a sports car. Does one not want to maximise that experience?

The Emira is fundamentally designed to be a more comfortable car with daily-driver 'potential'. Why would you want to make this even softer? Why dilute the experience that makes a Lotus stand out.

Harry's Garage. He has been in FAR more cars than Gavin. If he was surprised how firm it was NOT then that speaks volumes. Okay it was on a track BUT he knows about these things instinctively - much more so than any of us.

Future Regulations - consider that fast road use might get socially and legally unacceptable very quickly and you will spend more time on track days.

Seating - These will be the most comfortable seats from Lotus for a long time. Let the car do what it can and let your bum have the comfort part of it.

Ethos - Lotus has always been a car for the 'Drivers' not a sofa on 4 wheels. Ok, I know not everyone has a Bentley for the comfort journeys but let's get as much driving excellence out of it as possible.

Resale - Nono, I want Sports not Touring.  Yes, their perception can be misplaced but Sports is a psychological winner here.

How many people are REALLY going to daily drive an Emira -as a percetage of all owners - and then what? You will be going crap traffic speeds and the suspension is a non issue anyway. Get the Sports and enjoy the experience of a fully fettled modern Lotus.

Wondering...."Wow, I loved that spirited drive, i wonder if it would have been 10% better in sports? Umm"

Tyres/Tires - These are bespoke to the Lotus thereby optimised for a better ride anyway!

Lastly.

You take a friend/colleague/relation for a drive. What do you really want to hear from them afterwards when the engine turns off.

"Ah, that was a comfortable journey. More comfy that I thought it would be"

or

"Wow, that was an experience. Maybe too much for me all of the time but what a weapon".

 

* * * * * * * * * *

 

Okay. We really don't know where any of us will be on this and we won't really find out until it is too late. I just believe, completely, the right choice given all of the above is still to go for Sports and with the Goodyears. I really believe more people will regret not getting Sports than the other way round.

My heart is not in question. I concede my head is

[KJD]

[Evotion]

 

😁

[Matt W]

Just out of idle interest, has anyone asked what the actual mechanical difference is between the two setups? I suspect it’s not geometry, most likely springs and dampers, in which case it’s probably not going to be stupid expensive to swap setups later.

[KJD]

All of the above, apparently.

Stiffer springs and dampers, and sharper geo.

[TomE]

Ade, appreciate the time you've taken to write that up and it's useful to read your thought process.  In my humble opinion I think you're missing the ride and handling philosophy that Lotus design in to a Touring setup.  It's not a sofa on wheels by any stretch.  It's designed for fast road driving on mixed surfaces.  We can expect it will do so with more feedback to the driver and more responsiveness and engagement than most other cars in the category.  Our key current comparator is the Evora, which 12 years after the original launch still gets rave reviews for R&H in both setups.

The springs and dampers in the Touring and Sports versions are both new to Emira and the setups are Emira-specific.  The only differences between the two are the spring and damper ratings and the geometry.  Sports isn't newer/more advanced. 

If you want a scalpel of a sportscar, I'd suggest you want an Exige.  The Emira is a GT sportscar - a very capable one and one you can take on track for a lot of fun, but it's premise is as a road car.  People will daily drive them, probably more than any previous Lotus.  Some won't.  People aren't "diluting" the experience by choosing not to have Sports, in fact they're making it more useable across the majority of types of miles they'll probably do.  Sport will be fine too, but "slightly stiffer" comes with a few minor compromises.  It won't make a difference on resale price or ease of sale, at least on an FE where there's no cost difference and a rough 50/50 split of availability.

I haven't followed all your posts.  I know you've driven an Exige.  Have you driven an Evora?  I haven't seen it mentioned.  Have you driven both the Touring-like Evora S (Series 1) and the Sports-like GT410?  From what you've written you'd probably still choose Sports after driving both, as that's your preference.  But I think you'd be surprised at how good the Touring is, if you currently think it's an over-soft compromise.  I'm going to borrow a GT410 again in the next two weeks to do a back to back comparison with my S, as it's been a while since I did a direct comparison over the same roads.  I'd offer to do some filming, but I don't think a perceivable difference will show on a video on real A/B roads.

I've found most passengers in my Evora have commented on the combination of ride quality AND exhilarating pace, grip, cornering and braking ability - it is a Lotus after all  

Bear in mind too that not all of the information on compromises is contained in the statements you've quoted from Lotus. To paraphrase your format:

Lotus: would you like extreme track performance without compromising comfort? (ie with the Cup2 tyres)

Customer: well yes of course, I do want the best track handling and if the comfort is the same that's great

Lotus: you do live in a nice warm country where it doesn't rain, right?

[Whitey]

Still Touring for me. I did a 200 mile round trip through mid Wales at the weekend on wet and bumpy B roads, no way would I have wanted stiffer suspension!!

[Beady]

Have to agree I am with Ade on this one - its a Lotus so default should always be Sport.

My instinct is that most of us mere mortals probably would not notice the difference anyway, on track or road, but psychologically it has to be Sport!

 

 

 

[Gizmo750]

Out of interest, how would people feel if the marketing department had chosen to call these options "Road" and "Track"? Would removing the perceived negative connotation of the arguably emotive "Touring" and "Sport" mean that people were more happy to choose the option that matched their usage?

[JimH]

Pretty much what I said on this thread back on October 18th….. 😀