Lotus Emira

[j141]

3 hours ago, Evotion said:

I was told the AMG4 starts at £55, the V6 at £75. Should see some premium bits on the V6 to make up that £20 difference. All in , the most the V6 should be is £85 if you tick everything.

V6 releases first and the AMG4 might be anything from 3 to 6 months layer so easily a year away from now, even for early deposit holders.

 

I think you are bang on the money with this, no way the Turbo 2.0l AMG4 will have more BHP than the S/C 3.5l V6 and the AMG will be the cheaper option.

Edited July 7, 2021 by j141

[Barrykearley]

I just sit here wondering if lotus is using the v6 engine first so they can run out their existing supply contract with Toyota. Seems a lot of folks are somewhat less positive about the turbo 4 pot car - which is definitely a very very capable unit with huge tuning potential.

[CocoPops]

4pot auto is my desired car (as long as it is the lower price point) as I want it for daily driving, will keep Elise for track/fun.

[Sport220]

Media website says "EU DIN kerb weight". So, which one is it then? 

[Evotion]

They are likely bringing out the V6 first for three reasons:

1. They know the 4Cyl will look super value and sell a lot more. This is there chance to shift a lot of V6 cars  (cynical)
2. They have more knowledge of the V6 so it makes sense to launch it first (logical)
3. They need more money up front and believe the top model will enhance pre-orders and sales of the 4cyl (commercial)

 

3 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I just sit here wondering if lotus is using the v6 engine first so they can run out their existing supply contract with Toyota. Seems a lot of folks are somewhat less positive about the turbo 4 pot car - which is definitely a very very capable unit with huge tuning potential.

That could be a 4th option! 

Hey it would suit me if i got a V6 launch edition and they then ONLY made 4cyl.  

[NedaSay]

Bibs videobombing Harry Metcalfe shamelessly priceless!

 

[Giniw]

7 hours ago, Wilbert Camshaft said:

V6 still with the outdated manual gearbox and not available with DSG  

Unless I am wrong the V6 can be either auto or manual.

[mdavies]

Even accepting the first edition Emira for what it clearly is, surely whoever approved the mass of official verbiage – on here via one of Bib’s links – had an extremely serious shortage of Lotus DNA in his make up:

“….will drive their Emira in a spirited way, and even on a circuit…”

….. “even on a circuit….”

EVEN!!!!!!!   Heavens to Betsy!

Words fail me…………….must turn away……

[Evotion]

15 minutes ago, Giniw said:

Unless I am wrong the V6 can be either auto or manual.

You are not wrong.   We were also always meant to believe the 4cyl was auto only but recent coverage has it looking like multiple options for both.

[NedaSay]

Emira is technically speaking benchmarked on Cayman so no need to provide the 400bhp from the get go, also in order to meet regulation they probably needed to tune the powertrain for fuel efficiency and lower emissions so that with Euro VII  regulation they can keep this powertrain relevant as Metcalfe points to in his video. It is still the 2GR-FE which I find shocking as Toyota is keeping it in production solely for Lotus at this point. I get that this engine shares its base with the newer Toyota V6 engines and that the complete powertrain is probably cheaper to buy for lotus than an updated 2GR-FKS with the 8 speed to match but for Toyota to keep it on the production line for some 4000 units...

Also to kind in mind I think, they  just presented Emira 1st edition, this is no S, no R and certainly no GT. There is plenty of room to go more hardcore and for marketing lightweighting on ulterior versions.

One thing they haven't talked at all is the body of the car, I guess it is more composite than alloy due to the complexity of some lines but not a word on it anywhere.

They really put the emphasis on the AMG connection, somebody pretty high really wanted that engine which is great and all. but as a one off collaboration... I don't quite get it in terms of group strategy. Then again Lotus clearly has leeway and  if one higher up said this engine is better for engineering or marketing reason. I'm OK to eat crow. I just wonder what people at Geely powertrain group are thinking, not that they have a say in the matter obviously.

 

My other thing is how Lotus did not commit on spec at all...  Some Journalists have said that the V6 was the top spec, while other have said that the 4cyl will be the top spec. If Lotus got the AMG engine to tune it to 360 bhp and to make it less edgy than in a CLA45... Some will be pissed.  But then if they give it the full beans, it is more powerful than the V6. So how do you build the product range together cohesively. Especially on this side of the pond.

 

 

[TomE]

4 hours ago, Evotion said:

Overall, this has made me think. This now looks like they have played it lower on purpose to build up from. This really annoys me. I get two Emiras and then not too long after I actually get it they announce and 430 Sport version (lighter and some sexy bits). What do I do then, when THAT is the car that I actually want.

Lotus usually do this, other manufacturers too.  The Evora had a fully loaded launch edition, then a supercharged version, then the 4xx series and increases in power up to the GT430.  The Emira First Edition will be the V6 SC at 400bhp, then 3-6 months later the AMG at de-tuned 360bhp then they'll produce more powerful variants, a stripped out version, a GT4 etc etc.

You could hang on and wait for "the one you actually want" but in the meantime will miss out on driving what looks like a cracking car even in launch guise.  My hunch is the V6 will have a limited production run and when the next tuned AMG version at 450bhp arrives (at north of £75k) in 2023 there will still be strong demand for used First Edition V6 cars.  So I'm going to enjoy the V6 from launch and if a "better" car comes along later then I'll think about a trade in when that arrives.  I've been really happy with my S1 Evora and never felt the need to trade it in for a 4xx.

[Evotion]

Yeah, basically, if I want one ASAP then I have to accept this. The First Edition might well  be special.

At worst, the residuals might be okay and it is a trade in.   We will see.

[Vipers]

Not sure if already mentioned by anyone else but just got my copy of Evo delivered with a nice Emira cover and an 8 page spread so hope to learn some more info from that.

 

[IwantOne]

First post. Signed up because I just love the design of the Emira. I always thought the Elise was cool (and cute) though I never really wanted one (or any other Lotus) mostly because they are a bit too hardcore for me.

As I said I think the car looks amazing. Really clean lines and a nice shape. I think this is the kind of design that will still look good 20 years from now.

I don't understand why some people complain about the power. 360-400hpnos more than enough. Maybe not on the track but I'm happy Lotus isn't joining the insane horsepower race. It's just not necessary. There's not a lot of fun in driving on the road if pressing the loud pedal for 4 seconds puts you at twice the allowed speed on most roads (at least where I live).

I was also very surprised with the price that was announced. I'm not that rich but the announced price of around 60.000 pounds is within my reach.

Unfortunately it seems the v6 (the one I'd want, not so much because of the engine but the manual gearbox), is going to be way more expensive.

I mean it's understandable, both the 4pot and v6 are very comparable to the cayman and cayman gts 4.0 so why not price it that way? It's not like there is much choice when you want a "affordable" mid engine sportscar.

That said, I'm disappointed the 4pot won't have a manual available. I know 90+% of the potential buyers won't buy a manual but still.

It also makes me wonder about the value proposition a bit. The base model I think is good value for money (apart from the lack of a manual) if it's truly priced like a base cayman. I can see people buying it over the Porsche for the looks. But the v6? Looks like it will cost (significantly) more than the cayman gts 4.0 and at that point I think a lot of people will get the Porsche because it's a Porsche and you get a 911 engine and not Toyota engine that has been around forever. This isn't a dig at Lotus but just the way a lot of people think. If they want to sell 5000 a year I think it's needs something over the Cayman otherwise a lot of people will just pick the more well known badge (and the fact they can get in seviced at a lot more places).

PS. I wonder what the pricing will be like outside the UK. I just looked up the pricing for the Elise, Exige and evora in my location and even the Elise is close in price to what the Emira is supposed to cost for the base model. The Elise costs more than a base Cayman... The Exige and evora are actually over 85.000 pounds, much more than what the Cayman 4.0 goes for (72.000 pounds).

Anyway I can't wait to a Emira in the flesh. The design team can be proud for creating something so beautiful.

[Evotion]

5 minutes ago, Vipers said:

Not sure if already mentioned by anyone else but just got my copy of Evo delivered with a nice Emira cover and an 8 page spread so hope to learn some more info from that.

 

Did they drive it?  Am looking for some real driving reviews.

5 minutes ago, IwantOne said:

First post. Signed up because I just love the design of the Emira. I always thought the Elise was cool (and cute) though I never really wanted one (or any other Lotus) mostly because they are a bit too hardcore for me.

 

As I said I think the car looks amazing. Really clean lines and a nice shape. I think this is the kind of design that will still look good 20 years from now.

 

I don't understand why some people complain about the power. 360-400hpnos more than enough. Maybe not on the track but I'm happy Lotus isn't joining the insane horsepower race. It's just not necessary. There's not a lot of fun in driving on the road if pressing the loud pedal for 4 seconds puts you at twice the allowed speed on most roads (at least where I live).

 

I was also very surprised with the price that was announced. I'm not that rich but the announced price of around 60.000 pounds is within my reach.

 

Unfortunately it seems the v6 (the one I'd want, not so much because of the engine but the manual gearbox), is going to be way more expensive.

 

I mean it's understandable, both the 4pot and v6 are very comparable to the cayman and cayman gts 4.0 so why not price it that way? It's not like there is much choice when you want a "affordable" mid engine sportscar.

 

That said, I'm disappointed the 4pot won't have a manual available. I know 90+% of the potential buyers won't buy a manual but still.

 

It also makes me wonder about the value proposition a bit. The base model I think is good value for money (apart from the lack of a manual) if it's truly priced like a base cayman. I can see people buying it over the Porsche for the looks. But the v6? Looks like it will cost (significantly) more than the cayman gts 4.0 and at that point I think a lot of people will get the Porsche because it's a Porsche and you get a 911 engine and not Toyota engine that has been around forever. This isn't a dig at Lotus but just the way a lot of people think. If they want to sell 5000 a year I think it's needs something over the Cayman otherwise a lot of people will just pick the more well known badge (and the fact they can get in seviced at a lot more places).

 

PS. I wonder what the pricing will be like outside the UK. I just looked up the pricing for the Elise, Exige and evora in my location and even the Elise is close in price to what the Emira is supposed to cost for the base model. The Elise costs more than a base Cayman... The Exige and evora are actually over 85.000 pounds, much more than what the Cayman 4.0 goes for (72.000 pounds).

 

Anyway I can't wait to a Emira in the flesh. The design team can be proud for creating something so beautiful.

Can't argue with any of that.

And welcome!

[Bravo73]

5 minutes ago, IwantOne said:

First post. Signed up because I just love the design of the Emira.

 

Welcome to TLF, IwantOne. 👋

[Vipers]

3 minutes ago, Evotion said:

Did they drive it?  Am looking for some real driving reviews.

Doesn't look like it.

[AK70]

Not too sure about that 4pot... If I look how Porsche is selling its 4pot Cayman/Boxters... mhmmm since the GTS 4.0 nobody is buying a Cayman or Cayman S anymore... Will be veeeeery important how the AMG sounds in the Emira. We will see, but 6pot we know and it is a pretty good sounding machine.. 😉

 

[electro_boy]

The Porsche 4pot was clearly made to hit a price and economy point to get people who want to cool and flash in a car but not necessarily drive the car.

I'm by no means an expert on it but from the few reviews I've read the engine has a laggy response not very linear delivery and sounds crap.  I think thats the reason people have not gone for it.

Whereas the AMG 4pot engine was made to be a driver's car engine and has been much better received.

[electro_boy]

4 hours ago, Woodman said:

When Jenson was driving it, the manual gear change looked very high, so maybe the interior design has been optimised for an auto anyway. 

This was mentioned in the live launch.  The manual shifter was purposefully moved higher and closer to the steering wheel to give a more race car feel.

[mg4lotus]

Also mentioned in the launch was the airflow creating vortices and improved venting sucking the heat from the engine bay. I believe the residual heat in the V6 gave a practical limit of about 450BHP but with better heat removal that could open a gateway for more power from the V6.

[Evotion]

15 minutes ago, mg4lotus said:

Also mentioned in the launch was the airflow creating vortices and improved venting sucking the heat from the engine bay. I believe the residual heat in the V6 gave a practical limit of about 450BHP but with better heat removal that could open a gateway for more power from the V6.

That sounds good - warranty in mind though.

I wonder who will be the first person to Komotec it..

[freefall_junkie]

15 minutes ago, mg4lotus said:

Also mentioned in the launch was the airflow creating vortices and improved venting sucking the heat from the engine bay. I believe the residual heat in the V6 gave a practical limit of about 450BHP but with better heat removal that could open a gateway for more power from the V6.

I thought the limiting factor for power in the Exige and Evora was the gearbox? Does the manual V6 Emira have the same gearbox I wonder? Komotec built a 500bhp Exige but with a different box.

[TdM]

The issue was less heat and more gearbox I believe. Not sure how much work they've done on it but without an upgrade to the gearbox it's not going much higher than 430bhp.

I do agree with them that it doesn't really need it. That's plenty of power for almost all applications.

[C8RKH]

4 minutes ago, TdM said:

The issue was less heat and more gearbox I believe. Not sure how much work they've done on it but without an upgrade to the gearbox it's not going much higher than 430bhp.

I do agree with them that it doesn't really need it. That's plenty of power for almost all applications.

Lotus have successfully and happily tested the engine and gearbox to 450bhp.

Komotec have taken it reliably to 460, 475 and 490 bhp.  So it can go higher than 430, Lotus have tested it and proven it at higher, but it all depends on how far they are preapred to go. The engine / gearbox does NOT limit it to 430. That's a Lotus decision.