Have we all been starting our classic Lotuses incorrectly? Interesting expert opinion.

[GreenGoddess]

I saw this excellent Youtube video today. Basically, we should be starting our cars with the choke fully in and then gradually pulling out the choke until the engine eventually fires. That gives the engine a good few seconds to get oil circulated properly at only approx ~60rpm before the engine starts and idles at ~1500rpm.
Apologies if you already knew this. I just think it is an excellent tip, especially as approx 70% of engine wear occurs during startup.

 

[pete]

Never touched the choke on my esprit 

3pumps on throttle and thats it

[Chillidoggy]

What’s a choke?

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

What’s a choke?

my ride on mower has a choke.

[Escape]

Interesting video! I completely agree it's never a good idea to start an engine and letting it sit idling for some time. As is sometimes done or advised for cars in (winter) storage. All with the best intentions of course, but not doing the engine any favors.

I have also noticed on my Excel it seems to take less time for it to run smoother after start up if I don't use the choke. I do tend to use it (partly), but always push it in as soon as possible to keep the revs down ones she fires.

Funny thing about the video is he describes the wear and problems on cold starts and then proceeds to demonstrate exactly this on customers' cars!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

my ride on mower has a choke.

Who let a Lamborghini owner in here?

[USAndretti42]

We used to start the Honda Champ Car engines when cold using a 5 and 5 technique where the engine was bumped over on the starter 5 times and then cranked for 5 seconds before switching on the ignition.  This helped clear oil out of the (dry) sump and circulate the oil before firing up.

[ChrisJ]

I've owned my Esprit for 35 years - so I am speaking from experience.

My starting procedure has always been - first time in the day when the car is in the garage. Irrespective of outside temperature.

• Choke fully out
• 3-5 pumps on the throttle
• Ignition - start

Engine now running

• Choke goes in at the rate the oil pressure registers to the normal cold engine pressure.
• Car moved out of the garage
• Car stationary
• Close the garage door.
• Drive - do not sit waiting for any temperatures to register.

I have a set route to drive (2 miles or so) that will bring the water temperature up to just below 90 - i.e. normal.

Once up to temperature - full throttle is fine. I use my Esprit now exactly the same as I did in 1987 - so ALL revs are fine as the rev limiter will cut in if necessary.

Starting procedure when after a drive and the car has been sitting for an hour or so

• No choke
• Throttle full to the floor
• Ignition - probably with a cloud of smoke
• Prayers

I will add that I had my engine rebuilt (top end) in 2012, and I trust the guy who rebuilt it (Gerald/GST). He gave me restrictions after the rebuild. 3000 rpm for 1500 miles, increase of 500 rpm every 500 miles. Semi-synthetic oil for 10,000 miles after the rebuild, then switched to synthetic. I followed the restrictions to the letter (except for the below)

I have taken part in track days since the rebuild. The first one was a bit of a worry, as I'd just been OK'd to go to 5000 rpm, and the Goodwood noise limit check was to be run at 75% max revs (5250) and they would not accept that the max I would be running at was 5000. My Esprit passed

One other thing that is important (in my view) - cool down. When you are reaching your final destination, keep "off" the turbo for a couple of miles. This is fairly easy when returning home as you know where you are.  In the days of Sat Nav, this should also be fairly simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GreenGoddess]

Some great tips there guys. I’m still learning a lot about this car. 👍

[Steve V8]

1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

cool down. When you are reaching your final destination, keep "off" the turbo for a couple of miles.

Heat soak is a problem with mid mounted turbocharged cars, I'm lucky enough to have a coolant recirculation pump on the V8, but that is Very good advice, something that hadn't ever crossed my mind. 

[ChrisJ]

1 hour ago, GreenGoddess said:

Some great tips there guys. I’m still learning a lot about this car. 👍

Ask advice from people who own your car - not some "pillock" who has no idea about "your" car.

 

 

 

[Elite 4.9]

I have read that 80% of engine wear occurs at the initial start up and have seen a couple of devices that eliminate this lack of oil pressure at start up.

One is another canister ( about one quart in size ) that has a valve on it and a lever inside the car. This was on a race car. Before shutting down the engine you simply shut the valve using the lever which traps oil under pressure. Then you shut off the engine. Next time you want to fire it up, simply open the valve using the lever giving immediate oil pressure then crank it over.

I used to just crank my engine, old school with automatic choke, for 10-15 seconds and then blip the throttle to start it thus giving enough time for some oil pressure.

Having an electric oil pump is also an excellent idea as you can achieve full pressure before even cranking it over similar to the first example I mentioned on a race car.

No one wants your engine to last except you, the owner, so you don't see these devices from auto manufactures.

Many here thinking the same to protect and elongate their engine condition as much as possible. Smart IMHO.

cheers,

Richard

[Kevin Wheeler]

16 hours ago, pete said:

Never touched the choke on my esprit 

3pumps on throttle and thats it

Exactly this. Don't think my choke is connected.

[LotuStuart]

I pull the choke out on my Spitfire, crank the engine, sidedraught cars take a while to fire up, and I allocate that time to building oil pressure.

I swapped a motorbike engine over on Friday. When I tried to start it nothing happened. I had forgotten to connect the spark plug HT lead.

EDIT

I swapped a motorbike engine over on Friday. I disconnected the spark plug HT lead and cranked the engine to build up oil pressure before starting.

[MPx]

I have my own way which has worked for me over decades and is similar to many posts above.  Turn ignition on and wait for the fuel gurgle to come.  Couple of pumps on the throttle + full choke and it will fire on first, occasionally second try.  I need to hold full choke or it will immediately die.  By time I've backed it out of the barn and stopped in front of the house I dont need to hold the choke any more.  So as I say, that's worked for me and I can't now remember ever being able to start it differently (from cold). 

Back at Combe this year I broke it on the first fast lap.  Its not been rebuilt yet (still waiting my turn) but the diagnosis is that I've broken (at least) one piston ring.  I was admonished by Pete Musgrove for my starting technique.  He says everyone always pumps the throttle a couple of times which floods fuel through the cylinders and washes out any residual oil, so the starting procedure is very hard on rings, scraping up and down with no lube.  Hence the rings wear very thin and eventually break.   That may be a necessary evil to get the thing started but interested to hear if anyone has a technique that doesn't involve pumping the throttle ?

[NG5]

Anybody thought about using the Lotus recommended technique? 😎

From the S1 owners manual:

STARTING PROCEDURE 
USE ONLY UNLEADED GASOLINE 
Starting engine when extremely cold (to -20° C) 
Pull out the choke control fully. Operate the starter. Depress the accelerator pedal 
and increase the engine speed to 2,000 r.p.m. for  five minutes, to raise the-engine 
coolant temperature and provide adequate defrost performance from the heater. 
Push in the choke control progressively during warm,up. 

Starting engine when cold 
Pull out choke control all the way. Operate the starter. After the engine starts, 
push in the choke control progressively to maintain 1000 rpm. Return choke fully 
as engine reaches operating temperature.

 
Starting engine when warm 
Operate the starter without moving the accelerator pedal. If the engine does not 
start. press the accelerator pedal riqht down, operate the starter, and lift the pedal 
Immediately the engine starts. Pumping the accelerator pedal will not aid starting:.

Edited November 7, 2022 by NG5
typos

[skiing]

"Pumping the accelerator pedal will not aid starting" = you will flood the engine and have to wait in the service station with lots of people saying 'Lotus stands for 'lots of trouble usually. etc...'

Watching Ian's video would make me think that we should turn the engine over a little to get oil pressure up before pumping throttle to start (thereby hopefully negating piston ring damage as above?) then don't leave it to idle but keep the revs up / drive it as soon as possible?

[NG5]

Actually just noticed that is for the US stromberg carbs so not generally applicable.

I don't have a UK carb spec handbook, but someone must. What does it say?

[APB]

It didn't occur to me that the early Esprits would have carburetors but it makes sense. My Triumph Spitfire 1500 had twin SUs and my first V12 Jag had four Strombergs that were a bugger to balance but I don't recall starting issues with either of them. Just jump in, fire it up and go, even in English weather.

[GreenGoddess]

23 hours ago, MPx said:

I have my own way which has worked for me over decades and is similar to many posts above.  Turn ignition on and wait for the fuel gurgle to come.  Couple of pumps on the throttle + full choke and it will fire on first, occasionally second try.  I need to hold full choke or it will immediately die.  By time I've backed it out of the barn and stopped in front of the house I dont need to hold the choke any more.  So as I say, that's worked for me and I can't now remember ever being able to start it differently (from cold). 

Back at Combe this year I broke it on the first fast lap.  Its not been rebuilt yet (still waiting my turn) but the diagnosis is that I've broken (at least) one piston ring.  I was admonished by Pete Musgrove for my starting technique.  He says everyone always pumps the throttle a couple of times which floods fuel through the cylinders and washes out any residual oil, so the starting procedure is very hard on rings, scraping up and down with no lube.  Hence the rings wear very thin and eventually break.   That may be a necessary evil to get the thing started but interested to hear if anyone has a technique that doesn't involve pumping the throttle ?

That's precisely why I started this thread. Flooding the engine with fuel before starting it is going to do more harm than good. Yes, it will probably start quickly but that's not the goal. Our goal should be to preserve these engines, especially as rebuild costs are high and these cars become more valuable. 

I will be cranking my engine for a good few seconds before even thinking of touching the accelerator or choke. That will circulate a decent amount of oil at a low engine rotation speed before the thing starts up and runs at ~1500rpm. 

I didn't consider any of this before watching the video. I knew that letting the car idle for 5-10 seconds before driving off made sense but I didn't think about preventing the wear being caused on initial startup. My car recently had an engine rebuild so now would be a good time for me to make sure oil is getting circulated before getting it to burst into life.

[Elite 4.9]

Actually there are other ways of eliminating dry bearings at start up and that is by using the proper oil and additives. 

I use Royal Purple synthetic oil in all my rigs both old and new as synthetic oils are far superior to old petroleum base oils on all fronts. This oil clings to surfaces and prevents any damage or at least minimizes them to a great degree. It also produces a measurable amount of added hp even to other good synthetic oils.

I also use, in all my engines including lawn mowers and small engines, Lucas oil treatment. It is an additive that is a heavy oil and basically does the same thing as Royal Purple.

Most people think RP is too expensive but we are talking about your engine here and you can make it last longer than almost any part of your car if you desire. Cheap insurance IMHO.

I learned about Lucas oil treatment from a friend who drives a big rig semi and he told me most all truckers, that he knows, buy this by the gallon. He bought a semi with a Detroit diesel engine, 14 liters, that uses many gallons of oil in its sump so buying synthetic simply wasn't an option as it was just too much money put out to change the oil.

But he took this truck with 700,000 miles on it ( never rebuilt ) to a million miles and even achieved as much as 8.7 mpg ( his best ).

This stuff works and can be added to any engine oil so you can rest in knowing you can protect your engine bearings from wear at startup. It also will give you a little more oil pressure giving better power and mileage especially in a car with more miles on it. It will also stop your smoking engine almost totally from excessive ring wear.

Funny story, another friend who also swears by it, had an older, small Chevy pickup, with many miles on it.  He put 100 % Lucas oil treatment in because a rod started to knock...but he still needed to drive it to work. It stopped the noise and continued to run without noise, believe it or not. 

cheers,

Richard

[Barrykearley]

And Lucas oil injector cleaner is absolutely incredible stuff as well.

Millers Nano technology synthetic race oil is expensive but Incredible stuff. Well worth spending on quality oils.

[Roy Lewington]

Iain Tyrrell, this guy is a legend.  I think we are missing the point here.  It is not about how to start your particular engine.  Basically what he is saying is spin the engine over 5 or more revolutions to get oil pressure and circulation throughout the engine and don't allow excess neat fuel to flood the bores of a cold engine.  How you do it is up to you.  It is very easy to wire  a separate push button switch direct to the starter solonoid meaning you can crank it without ignition.  The same can be achieved by an on/off switch to the ignition coil which could also act as an anti-theft device.    Roy.

[MrDangerUS]

On 08/11/2022 at 16:56, Elite 4.9 said:

Actually there are other ways of eliminating dry bearings at start up and that is by using the proper oil and additives. 

I use Royal Purple synthetic oil in all my rigs both old and new as synthetic oils are far superior to old petroleum base oils on all fronts. This oil clings to surfaces and prevents any damage or at least minimizes them to a great degree. It also produces a measurable amount of added hp even to other good synthetic oils.

I also use, in all my engines including lawn mowers and small engines, Lucas oil treatment. It is an additive that is a heavy oil and basically does the same thing as Royal Purple.

Most people think RP is too expensive but we are talking about your engine here and you can make it last longer than almost any part of your car if you desire. Cheap insurance IMHO.

I learned about Lucas oil treatment from a friend who drives a big rig semi and he told me most all truckers, that he knows, buy this by the gallon. He bought a semi with a Detroit diesel engine, 14 liters, that uses many gallons of oil in its sump so buying synthetic simply wasn't an option as it was just too much money put out to change the oil.

But he took this truck with 700,000 miles on it ( never rebuilt ) to a million miles and even achieved as much as 8.7 mpg ( his best ).

This stuff works and can be added to any engine oil so you can rest in knowing you can protect your engine bearings from wear at startup. It also will give you a little more oil pressure giving better power and mileage especially in a car with more miles on it. It will also stop your smoking engine almost totally from excessive ring wear.

Funny story, another friend who also swears by it, had an older, small Chevy pickup, with many miles on it.  He put 100 % Lucas oil treatment in because a rod started to knock...but he still needed to drive it to work. It stopped the noise and continued to run without noise, believe it or not. 

cheers,

Richard

I have learned about Lucas Oil Treatment "honey" in the 80-s. Fantastic product, it sticks and coats parts even if you leave the car sitting for a long time.

Esprit S4/ S4s has an interesting feature: with engine not running, when you depress accelerator pedal to the floor you  can crank the engine as long as you want without starting it. In this pedal position, the ignition and injectors are disabled. This feature is advertised as a method to "clear" your flooded engine.

[drdoom]

Seems we are generally inclined to crave miracle cures, hence the appetites for fuel and oil additives. How many have gleaned the parallel between oil flush liquids and laxatives, for example? A great deal of discussion continues to be devoted to the question of oils in various fora, lately offering up one or two finer points that had not previously occurred to me. First: that heavier oils are more difficult to de-aerate, something track day inclined operators might want to consider. Second: one valuable facet inherent in the better synthetic oils is resistance to burn-off or evaporation, very pertinent to lubrication of the rings near TDC when hydrodynamic action goes null, local temperatures are high, and boundary lubrication is critical.

The Lucas oil additive clearly makes treated oil visibly more viscous, appealing to the eye but perhaps counterproductive in some applications. As to fuel additives, we are wise to consider how much technology has been worked through in order to arrive at the cocktails we know as petrol.

FWIW